I once rode an NS steam excursion pulled by NKP 765 out of Chattanooga, TN. About thirty minutes into the trip, our train collided with a loaded tri-axle dump truck at a crossbuck-only crossing on a private road. Our train was negotiating an "S" curve prior to going into an emergency application, and it was fortuitous that we did not derail. I was working the four first class cars on the rear of the train. When I heard the air go down, I was in the second car from the rear, and we stopped right beside the wrecked truck. Somehow, the driver had been thrown clear, and was lying in a mess of crankcase oil and shattered truck front end pieces. Myself, a nurse onboard, and a few others detrained to offer assistance. Fortunately, the EMT's arrived quickly, but had to crawl under the train with their equipment since we had stopped on the crossing, and the train could not be moved until the railroad and police investigators did their job. Miraculously, the victim was conscious and breathing, not bleeding, but clearly was in a lot of pain. Once loaded on a back board, we had to pass him underneath the car that was blocking the narrow road crossing. The engineer, we were later told, thought the driver had probably been killed, and his blood pressure understandably went through the roof, and he was relieved on the spot. The 765 only received minor damage, including a couple of broken steps and lubricator lines. It must have been extremely traumatic for the front end crew, which included a road foreman of engines. After what seemed like two hours, repairs were made in place and with the crew changeout completed, our trip continued without further incident. The driver recovered but predictably did sue NS and received a cash settlement. Fortunately, this was my first and only train wreck!
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Considering the hundreds of trips with a dozen different locomotives between 1966 and 1994, the safety record of both the Southern and Norfolk Southern steam programs was very impressive, and enviable. Yet, these programs only ran with the approval of the insurance companies.
How was it the trains fault.
Tinplate,
When was this? I seem to remember that 765 was used on the Southern Steam program around 1978 or so. Is that right?
tncentrr posted:Tinplate,
When was this? I seem to remember that 765 was used on the Southern Steam program around 1978 or so. Is that right?
No. NKP 765 didn't move under her own steam power for the first time, after restoration, until Sept. 1, 1979. Then, in 1980, NKP 765 was "broken in" on the TP&W.
To the best of my recollection, this trip took place on October 27, 1982. Although the resulting investigation determined the engineer properly used the whistle for this grade crossing, the crossing itself had a steeper rise which caused the front end of this heavily loaded truck to "bottom-out" on the crossing, and the driver could not move either forwards or backwards. It was fortunate the 765 hit the engine compartment, and not the cab, or the driver would likely have been more seriously injured. Thus, the truck was knocked off the track and off to the engineer's side of the train. That glancing blow, as it were, reduced the damage to the 765 and likely kept the train from derailing. As far as the settlement, it was expeditious from a public relations standpoint to compensate the driver for his extensive medical bills and rehabilitation as he had incurred serious spinal injuries. Also, he really did not try to beat the train as he accidentally got stuck on that crossing.
The only time the 765 moved from Chattanooga to Atlanta, was on a deadhead move on Monday October 25, 1982.
A trip ran from Atlanta to Chattanooga on Saturday, October 30, 1982. If I recall correctly, this accident took place the next day, on a trip from Atlanta, to Toccoa, GA on Sunday October 31, 1982. The Southern ran the 765 at 75 mph on this trip! Another trip ran from Atlanta to Chattanooga on Sunday, November 7, 1982.
Here's the 765 on an SRR trip, blasting through Spring City, TN at 70 mph! My friend and former 765 crew member Tony Picone took the photo.
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Rich Melvin posted:
The only time the 765 moved from Chattanooga to Atlanta, was on a deadhead move on Monday October 25, 1982.
A trip ran from Atlanta to Chattanooga on Saturday, October 30, 1982. If I recall correctly, this accident took place the next day, on a trip from Atlanta, to Toccoa, GA on Sunday October 31, 1982. The Southern ran the 765 at 75 mph on this trip! Another trip ran from Atlanta to Chattanooga on Sunday, November 7, 1982.
Here's the 765 on an SRR trip, blasting through Spring City, TN at 70 mph! My friend and former 765 crew member Tony Picone took the photo.
Jim Wrinn in "Steam's Camelot" identifies the day as Sunday October 17, 1982. Also about a month later 765 returned to Ohio.
EDIT: Wrinn listed that run as Chattanooga to Crossville Tn
THANKS, RICH and PRRRONBH for the memory correction! In my mind, I thought it was the Chattanooga trip to Atlanta. Afterall, it has been 37 years since that event, but the accident is firmly etched in my memory, if NOT the date! LOL!
Just curious: Were any other forum members on that trip or perhaps maybe chased it? The 765 was a very special visitor in our neck of the woods at that time!
Also, for what it's worth, one of the Claytor brothers of the Southern was a huge fan of steam excursions and a qualified engineer. (W. Graham Claytor was pres. of Amtrak around that time). Any chance the other Claytor (forget his given name) happened to be at the controls?
Bill Purdie did most of the running when the 765 was on the Southern.
Actually Mr. Purdie made his last run with the 765 when he ran her back to Bellevue, Ohio after her 22 trips with the Southern. Doug Karhan would later succeed Mr. Purdie as Master Mechanic, Steam. The trip to Crossville on that Sunday, Oct. 17 was when the 765 had her unfortunate encounter with that dump truck near Hixon, TN, just north of Chattanooga. Again, SORRY about my memory lapse! At 77, we are allowed a few of those! LOL!
BOTH Graham and Robert Claytor we're qualified steam engineers. I like to remember them as the "The Steam Brothers"! I had the pleasure of meeting them on several occasions, and they were always most gracious and very enthusiastic about steam engines!
I should note that Mr. Purdie had 765's MARS light removed and stated he did not think he needed more than one headlight! The Southern did retain the NKP lettering on her tender throughout her time (22 trips in 1982) on Southern rails. The Fort Wayne folks certainly deserve a lot of credit for their excellent custodianship of this fine engine!
BTW, I had the pleasure a few years ago of seeing 765 rocketing through Mokena, Illinois at the head of the Joliet Rocket. I made a mistake and stood on the passenger platform a little too close and the engine was just a blur when it flew by. I felt I had missed out at seeing the full effect of the machinery and got tiny bits of coal in my hair, too. (which I didn't really mind) It is one of the pretties locomotives ever and I'm glad I got to see it that day. It is actually fortuitous both for the dump truck driver and the 765 that they didn't tag the part of the truck filled with rock or something else very heavy. I hope to see one or two more steam engines at speed before I check out. It's a real thrill and I hope the flame doesn't go out among the younger folks.
765, under Mr. Purdie's control, turned in fine performances on those 22 Southern excursions!
Bill told me a story about taking the train over Copper Ridge on a deadhead move in 1982. They had the whole train plus some support equipment (gons of coal, I think) on this move. Bill said that as they got into the hill, the 765 kept going slower and slower as the whole train was pulled on to the grade. With the throttle wide open and the reverse gear all the way down in the corner, he said the 765 got down to walking speed! And she never slipped! Bill said he had never seen a steam locomotive do that before. They ultimately crested the grade and proceeded on their way.
Not heard of this move! GREAT ACCOUNT! I well remember several visits to the Birmingham Steam Shop when Bill was in charge. My wife and I also sat next to Sara in the Man 'o War on more than one occasion, and also met and chatted with Mrs. Bistline on one trip. On one visit to the Steam Shop in 1976, the 4449 was inside! Those were some great folks and some good times I will not forget!
Tinplate Art posted:Not heard of this move! GREAT ACCOUNT! I well remember several visits to the Birmingham Steam Shop when Bill was in charge. My wife and I also sat next to Sara in the Man 'o War on more than one occasion, and also met and chatted with Mrs. Bistline on one trip. On one visit to the Steam Shop in 1976, the 4449 was inside!
Not quite. The American Freedom Train tour ended in Miami, Florida. In about January. Amtrak wanted to sponsor a "Transcontinental Steam Excursion" in order to return 4449 back to Portland OR. The managers at Amtrak were finally convinced that traveling to California, and then northward to Oregon in the WINTER was NOT a very good plan. Thus, Amtrak ran a special steam excursion to Birmingham, AL in early 1977, and made a deal with the Southern Rwy to store 4449 at their steam shop until spring of 1977.
Those were some great folks and some good times I will not forget!
HW: I thought it was '76 or '77, but I did see it stored in the Steam Shop. The NRHS Heart of Dixie Chapter out of Birmingham, Al arranged for a trip behind 4449 from Birmingham to Chattanooga, TN and return. Kay and I were very lucky to get tickets for that excursion. We sat in the same coach as Rogers Whittaker, the New Yorker editor who wrote about his many rail travels under the pseudonym, E. M. Frimbo. I believe the late editor of TRAINS, David P. Morgan, was also in the same car. On that trip back, we informerly clocked the speed at about 80 mph. By any chance, were you in the cab with Doyle on that run? Glad I had a chance to ride behind two of the AFT engines, 610 and 4449. I did, however, meet Ross Rowland, the owner of the T1, 2101 on the night the AFT departed Chattanooga. Great memories!
Tinplate Art posted:HW: I thought it was '76 or '77, but I did see it stored in the Steam Shop.
That would have obviously been 1977.
The NRHS Heart of Dixie Chapter out of Birmingham, Al arranged for a trip behind 4449 from Birmingham to Chattanooga, TN and return.
Two round trips from Birmingham to Chattanooga, i.e. Saturday and Sunday, prior to the departure of 4449, was part of the "deal" for some months of storage at the Southern's Irondale Shops, there in Birmingham.
Kay and I were very lucky to get tickets for that excursion. We sat in the same coach as Rogers Whittaker, the New Yorker editor who wrote about his many rail travels under the pseudonym, E. M. Frimbo. I believe the late editor of TRAINS, David P. Morgan, was also in the same car. On that trip back, we informerly clocked the speed at about 80 mph.
No way! I don't recall ever exceeding 70 MPH.
By any chance, were you in the cab with Doyle on that run?
All I remember is firing from Birmingham to Chattanooga, on either Saturday or Sunday, and got into an argument with the "old head Engineer" who was told to "run the engine", i.e they wouldn't let Doyle run that first day. The "old guy" had no clue how to operate a super power 4-8-4, as the Southern Rwy never had locomotives like that. He ran 4449 just like a diesel, i.e. throttle off going down hill and full throttle going up hill, but had no clue what the reverse gear was for! I had a heck of a time keep steam up, and finally when the boiler pressure went below 250 psi, I ask the "old guy", if he could please drop the power reverse down when gaining down grade, in order to provide some firebox draft. He responded, "Listen kid, I've been running steam locomotives since you were born! Just keep her hot!". A quick math calculation, since I was born in 1942, led me to believe that this "old guy" had to be over 80 (he sure didn't LOOK that old). Finally, Doyle said something to the Road Foreman of Engines, and he then took the throttle. Being operated properly, I was able to increase steam pressure, and finally let the safety lift, at which point I pointed to the "old guy" and smiled, prior to putting on the injector.
Glad I had a chance to ride behind two of the AFT engines, 610 and 4449. I did, however, meet Ross Rowland, the owner of the T1, 2101 on the night the AFT departed Chattanooga. Great memories!
HW: We rode the Saturday trip. THANKS for your extra insight! Not letting Doyle run was pretty stupid! The trip back to Birmingham seemed like a fast run, especially looking out a vestibule opening!
HW: I distinctly remember the wind current by that vestibule Dutch door on that return trip that night being so strong, it almost took my breathe away! I never experienced that on any other occasion, so I felt we were going unusually fast. Guess We will never know for certain. Was Doyle running on the way back on the Saturday trip?
Tinplate Art posted:HW: I distinctly remember the wind current by that vestibule Dutch door on that return trip that night being so strong, it almost took my breathe away! I never experienced that on any other occasion, so I felt we were going unusually fast. Guess We will never know for certain. Was Doyle running on the,way back on the Saturday trip?
Yes, either him or the "young" Roadforeman of Engines. After the altercation with the "old guy", Doyle and the Roadforeman tended to do all the running. Once the Roadforeman watched and learned what Doyle was doing on that roller-coaster railroad, he picked it up pretty quickly, plus he knew the railroad like the back of his hand. H e did an excellent job, and we had no more troubles with the Southern Rwy crews.
HW: THANK YOU for the additional insight on that trip! It stands out distinctly in my 77 year old memory, and I knew that Kay and I were not likely to have another chance to ride behind the 4449. Kay and I, and our three children rode numerous Southern and NS steam trips mostly out of Chattanooga, and some out of Birmingham, since those locations were relatively close to our homes in Nashville, TN. We started in 1974 with the 4501 and our last trip was behind 611 from Charlotte, NC to Asheville on Halloween day, 1993, when living in Charlotte, NC. I have ridden behind almost all of the 19 engines fielded in the Southern and NS Program, and was fortunate enough to meet Bill Purdie, both Claytors, Jim Bistline, and Carl Jensen on several occasions. We were also well acquainted with Bob and Joyce Soule and Paul Merriman. ALL wonderful and gracious folks who knew and loved steam, and made it possible for us to participate in those countless excursions. I once had cab time on 2716 at speed and Kay once got a cab ride at main line speed in 611. I was jealous! LOL!
A friend of mine and fellow TVRM member was assigned one night to "babysit" 611 while on a layover in Chattanooga, and I was able to stop by, and got a chance to work the injector and hand shovel some coal on the already banked fire! GREAT FUN! That cab was beautifully appointed and laid out! I once got a chance to see the inside of 4449's cab in Birmingham and it was also very impressive!
Hot Water posted:Tinplate Art posted:By any chance, were you in the cab with Doyle on that run?
All I remember is firing from Birmingham to Chattanooga, on either Saturday or Sunday, and got into an argument with the "old head Engineer" who was told to "run the engine", i.e they wouldn't let Doyle run that first day. The "old guy" had no clue how to operate a super power 4-8-4, as the Southern Rwy never had locomotives like that. He ran 4449 just like a diesel, i.e. throttle off going down hill and full throttle going up hill, but had no clue what the reverse gear was for! I had a heck of a time keep steam up, and finally when the boiler pressure went below 250 psi, I ask the "old guy", if he could please drop the power reverse down when gaining down grade, in order to provide some firebox draft. He responded, "Listen kid, I've been running steam locomotives since you were born! Just keep her hot!". A quick math calculation, since I was born in 1942, led me to believe that this "old guy" had to be over 80 (he sure didn't LOOK that old). Finally, Doyle said something to the Road Foreman of Engines, and he then took the throttle. Being operated properly, I was able to increase steam pressure, and finally let the safety lift, at which point I pointed to the "old guy" and smiled, prior to putting on the injector.
Glad I had a chance to ride behind two of the AFT engines, 610 and 4449. I did, however, meet Ross Rowland, the owner of the T1, 2101 on the night the AFT departed Chattanooga. Great memories!
Jack: He was running with the throttle shut downhill?! No steam = no valve oil lubrication! I'm surprised you and Doyle didn't "throttle" him!
Standard Gauge posted:Hot Water posted:Tinplate Art posted:By any chance, were you in the cab with Doyle on that run?
All I remember is firing from Birmingham to Chattanooga, on either Saturday or Sunday, and got into an argument with the "old head Engineer" who was told to "run the engine", i.e they wouldn't let Doyle run that first day. The "old guy" had no clue how to operate a super power 4-8-4, as the Southern Rwy never had locomotives like that. He ran 4449 just like a diesel, i.e. throttle off going down hill and full throttle going up hill, but had no clue what the reverse gear was for! I had a heck of a time keep steam up, and finally when the boiler pressure went below 250 psi, I ask the "old guy", if he could please drop the power reverse down when gaining down grade, in order to provide some firebox draft. He responded, "Listen kid, I've been running steam locomotives since you were born! Just keep her hot!". A quick math calculation, since I was born in 1942, led me to believe that this "old guy" had to be over 80 (he sure didn't LOOK that old). Finally, Doyle said something to the Road Foreman of Engines, and he then took the throttle. Being operated properly, I was able to increase steam pressure, and finally let the safety lift, at which point I pointed to the "old guy" and smiled, prior to putting on the injector.
Glad I had a chance to ride behind two of the AFT engines, 610 and 4449. I did, however, meet Ross Rowland, the owner of the T1, 2101 on the night the AFT departed Chattanooga. Great memories!
Jack: He was running with the throttle shut downhill?! No steam = no valve oil lubrication! I'm surprised you and Doyle didn't "throttle" him!
He was told very early on to NOT shut the throttle all the way off, i.e. just enough so the pilot valve was still open in the front end throttle assembly.
Sounds like he was a real GOOBER!