New layout questions

Here’s a few still photos

The bottom level is for a subway - you can see some cars in the first photo

Do you have just 1 power lead attached to the long track? If so, you probably need more, like 1 every 10’ or so, to distribute power more evenly.

It’s hard to tell without a track plan, but it looks like you’re forcing connections and there’s not enough “give” in the track to make good connections resulting in the track twisting and leaving gaps. This is probably more problematic because it’s FasTrack with rigid roadbed.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using for decking? The bottom level appears to be 1/2” plywood or particle board covered with something and the other levels just 1/2” plywood. The reversing loops with the support rod appears to have some sort of metal cross-bracing.

Yes in a couple spaces it’s only a 1/4” inch off — I will go back and review the original plan — I’m bettering we are missing a custom piece or got them in the wrong order

The bottom level is particle board covered with 1 inch insulation foam — the top level is new and we had not thought about what to use — what do you recommend?  Is there something simple I can cut out or something?

thank you

@Naxter posted:

Thanks so much.

>>>Do you have just 1 power lead attached to the long track? If so, you probably need more, like 1 every 10’ or so, to distribute power more evenly.

Yes just one transformer on each — do I add extra wires to the same transformer? you can, but it may be easier to buy a terminal block like the one below and connect your transformer to the red and black inputs and then run paired wires from the ports to the track wherever you need a power drop.

>> It’s hard to tell without a track plan, but it looks like you’re forcing connections and there’s not enough “give” in the track to make good connections resulting in the track twisting and leaving gaps. This is probably more problematic because it’s FasTrack with rigid roadbed.

Yes in a couple spaces it’s only a 1/4” inch off — I will go back and review the original plan — I’m bettering we are missing a custom piece or got them in the wrong order

>>Just out of curiosity, what are you using for decking? The bottom level appears to be 1/2” plywood or particle board covered with something and the other levels just 1/2” plywood. The reversing loops with the support rod appears to have some sort of metal cross-bracing.

The bottom level is particle board covered with 1 inch insulation foam — the top level is new and we had not thought about what to use — what do you recommend?  Is there something simple I can cut out or something?

thank you

AFAIK, Fastrack only goes down to O-31, not O-27. Lionel makes a UP Big Boy in Lionchief Plus 2.0 that is rated to run down to O-31 curves and that's a large train.

Also, not to be picky, but videos and pictures are best shot and viewed on the Forum in a horizontal format, not vertical.

Well, an inexpensive multimeter is your best friend when trying to find electrical problems. The idea is to see if the track joints are good or if there’s a break somewhere. An engine that only goes 5’-6’ and stops in the same place suggests a disconnect (bad track, bad joint, etc.), not low power. Adding another power drop past that point may keep things running, but it masks the problem. When adding drop, you can add more wires to the transformer, but the better way is to run a single set of wires to a central terminal strip and run multiple wire sets from there to various points along the track run. I don’t know what system you’re using, but for “optimum” signal strength, DCS likes power blocks that have 11-12 joints and no more than 100’ for a block.

Did you use software to design the layout? Which program? Or, are you following a diagram from a magazine or something? Since FasTrack has 1 3/8” and 1 3/4” fitters, you might have used the smaller one where it called for the larger one. Is the track attacked to the decking?

When it comes to the decking, I was just curious what you were using and what size because it looked like 1/2” in the photos, but might be 3/4” if you added 1” foam board. I don’t have any experience with FasTrack, so I don’t know what’s best. Like RealTrax, FasTrack is fairly noisy.

Just my experience with my new layout.

I use a distribution block for distributing both of the two power lines (hot and neutral) out to the track at the hook up sections..  I don't use a long master "bus" line of power running underneath the table and then try to hook up to that by tapping into it.       

Put your distribution blocks either inside your control box, or mounted conveniently on the outside edge of your train table. Otherwise you will have to spend hours underneath the table fooling with it.

I used 18 gauge wire (very easy to work with), and put power in every 6 feet or so.  The track has plenty of power.  In my opinion, you can never really have too many power hookups, especially if you are using used track.

I don't use the "snap on" power attachments to the track.  I just turn a piece of track over, gently pry the two power rails open just a bit at the bottom, in the center of the track section, strip the ends of two short (1 ft) power wires, slip the striped ends into the cracks in the rails, and then solder the ends into the track.  Then, drill a hole next to the track section, drop the two wires through, and hook them up underneath the table to the longer power wires.  You can use simple spade attachments if you want, provided that you wrap a short piece of black tape around the spades after you hook the wires up, so that they don't touch each other and short out.

You can get a very cheap soldering iron at Harbor freight, and regular tin based rosin core solder works fine.

As for hooking up the curved sections, you can't just force two sections of track together (especially new track).  You need to gently pry open the undersides of the rails with a tiny screwdriver, to open them up a bit, before you try to push the track ends together. 

You definitely need to buy an O gauge crimping tool, or you will have major track problems.  The crimping tool allows you to re-squeeze the tops and bottoms of the rails, back to their original size, once you have the sections hooked up.

Sometimes, older used sections of track are just too bent or twisted at the ends to use, especially curved sections .  This is because the prior owner twisted them upward as he pulled them off of his train board. The slight twists are hard to see, but they are there, and often are the cause of derailments.  You just have to throw these sections away.  The crimping tool will not straight out these upward or sideway twists.

Wear a pair of medium heavy gloves when you are pushing track sections together. It helps dull the pain.

Hope this helps.

Mannyrock

Mannyrock--

I'm interested in why you decided not to use a master "bus" wire for the power to your tracks and instead use a distribution block.  I'm also interested in exactly how you wired with a distribution block.  Since I am learning.

First off, what type of track and scale are you running?  That may have a bearing on your decision.

Did you use some sort of terminal block such as the MTH 12-terminal type shown here:

You said you used 18 gauge wire.  If you did, in fact, use a terminal block such as that depicted here, did you run two 18 gauge wire from the transformer to the two larger plugs on the bottom of the 12 terminals (one hot and one neutral), and then connect separate 18 gauge wire runs to various parts of the track from this terminal block--to be attached to the track using a connector and a feeder line?  Are those feeder lines that you solder to the track also 18 gauge?

Or did you use some other sort of "distribution block?"

How do you run your trains? That will dictate what you will need for power. Any transformer will do for running trains. I use a 180W Brick for power on my layout and a new Powermaster, since I use Legacy. My curves are O36, but I can still run slightly larger diesels. I run a Legacy ATSF B40-8W which requires a minimum O36 curve. Lionel makes scale Dash 8, Dash 9, U30C/U33C, SD60M, SD70M/SD70MAC, and SD70ACe/SD70M-2 diesel locos that will also handle O36, as well as most 4-axle locos. Any LC+2.0 engine will also handle O36 curves. For steam, you could use a Camelback or Ten-wheeler or a switcher.

For wiring, I suggest bus wiring with 18-12 gauge wire (I use 14 gauge). I recommend that your feeder wires be attached between every 4-6 feet of track. I had a few problems with my Legacy loco stalling. Now, it runs fantastic with the wiring installed.

I'd also suggest using my cheap foam roll idea to go between the roadbed and the wood. The foam roll is about $10 for a 50 foot roll, and it's easy to cut and install. You should be able to find the rolls at any hardware store (I got mine at Home Depot; also, the wire and any electrical supplies you might need are available at hardware stores). I just cut the foam into the right shapes to fit the shape of each track section, put the foam under the track, and screwed the track down.

For powering buildings, lights, accessories, etc., you can use any transformer, but the larger, the better. 12-14 Volts is perfect for accessory power. I plan to use a CW80 to power accessories on a future layout. Oh, one more thing: I'd suggest you power your remote switches off of a separate power supply. That way, the switches will work better, and the trains and switches will not interfere with each other.

Based on your commentary in the video about having it working before in the old house, the first thing I would check is the length of each piece.  Mixing up a 4 1/2" straight with a 5" straight or a 1 3/8" with a 1 3/4" somewhere in the layout could cause small misalignment problems elsewhere such as what you zoom in on.  Layouts such as yours with crossovers require much more "fit" than layouts with ovals, crossovers, spurs, etc.  Potentially, mixing up an 031 curve with a 036 curve section could also cause similar issues.

If you are using the 1 3/8" fitter section, remember that it has a power disconnection deliberately built into it.  Every time you install one of these pieces, you need to verify that the jumper wires on the bottom are properly configured.

Jimbo,

Thanks for your questions.

First of all, the use of a master bus wire running to different areas underneath the train board is a standard and very good practice.  It is used by almost all experienced railroaders, and I cannot really criticize it. 

I decided not to use it for some practical reasons and personal preferences.

First, I wanted to be able to move my master control box freely and flexibly away from the edge of the table, so I could reposition it up or down the side of the table, or put it on a small table and move it 3 to 4 feet away from the edge of the table so that I could easily feed wires into or out of it, or work on things under or around the box, or put it on a higher or lower stand.    Most people who use a bus wire use the recommended 12 gauge or 14 gauge wire.   This wire is very stiff, and once you have hooked it up into a box, it wants to twist or bend or snap loose where you connected it if try to move the box at acute angles.     In other words, it is not very flexible.      Using 18 gauge wire to run from your switches into the control box  gives you lines that are almost as flexible as string, and even when you gather all of the wires together a bundle and hold them together with three or four evenly spaced zip ties, it moves like a breeze.

Second, I just didn't like the idea of going to several locations on a single bus wire under the table and trying to use an electrical "tap" fitting to tap into the line in 8 or 9 places to run the short feed wires up to the switches.   Given that I am an electrical novice, and clumsy with electrical hand tools, I could seem myself cutting or damaging the bus wire trying to put in all of those taps.

Third, for me, it was just so easy for me to drill a small hole on the top of the table next to each switch, pull both power lines off the spool and up through the hole, flip a piece of track over and solder the two lines to the bottom of the track, and put the track in place, and then run the two power lines under the table back to my control box and onto the distribution blocks.  Done.           Be sure to leave an extra foot of length underneath the table, at the point where the lines come up through the hole, in case you have to move or service the track section a bit, or in case you have to cut the lines under the table and then later reconnect them with either spade or straight crimp connectors.  When I ran my wires, I used two separate wires, and then gently twisted them together a bit under the table so that they would stay close together on their way to the control box.  Later I found out you can buy 18 gauge line in two-wire version (different colors running side by side), so that the wires are both together from the beginning.  Sure wish I had know that.     After you run your wire under the table, use a staple gun and 3/8ths staples to staple them up neatly underneath the table, leaving that spare foot stapled up just under the hole.  Be sure to write underneath the table at  each hole what power feed station it is.  (I use PS-1, PS-2, etc.)   And then be sure to put a label tag on each wire, where it comes out from under the table.

Yes, I used two different distribution blocks. One for each power wire.  From the transformer to the distribution blocks, I ran 14 gauge wire.  Yes it is stiff, but since my transformer and control box are mounted side by side on a single piece of plywood, the transformer is always right next to the control box, ts those stiff wires don't get moved once in place.

I made my own distribution blocks (one for each power wire), which are cheap and easy to make, but I think that I would recommend that you use the MTH double distribution block.  It is pricey, but it looks great.   I put my distribution blocks right inside of my control box. 

I know that my method is not standard and perhaps not recommended, but for me it was stupid simple, easy to understand, easy to do, and  very flexible.

If you decide to run  fixed voltage lines out to your automatic switches  (which will plug into the sides of the switches), you can use the same system.  Put a single line distribution block in your box, and use a different color wire from the other two colors.

Hope this info helps.

Mannyrock