? Regarding Homasote:

Plywood...homasote... track ... we also put cork under our track for the mainlines, just to increase the height a bit over the sidings.

Many, like us paint the homasote with a latex paint before putting track down just to seal it up before the scenery goes down. Painting however is NOT REQUIRED, but most of it do it anyway. Paint it an earth color so if the scenery gets scrapped off, you don't see grey spots. 

Some are using alternative sound deadening materials vs Homasote due to cost. I have no experience with either, but I intend to experiment with something cheaper than Homasote.

Foam is mostly used for scenery like mountains. Some put it under the track too so they can easily cut out sections for lakes, rivers, etc. Many say it doesn't do much to deaden sound and would be redundant if using Homasote for that.

In any event, I "think" the order would be plywood, Homasote, foam, cork, track, but I could be wrong.

Strogey, I used Homasote on top of the plywood.  Since I have a tinplate layout, I just painted the homasote with splashes of greens and brown latex paint and that's the finished base. The same was done on Richard Kughn's incredible Carrail layout years ago.  The Homasote will hold screws relatively well so the track can be screwed to it with short screws that do not go through to the plywood.

Homasote will not hold up to prolonged immersion in water, but latex paints, wet water, plaster, Sculptamold, Scenic Express and/or diluted Elmer's spray glue, etc., do not seem to bother at all, it dries quickly.

The Homasote being 1/2" thick on top of the plywood, I just cut through the Homasote with a sheetrock knife to expose the plywood, painted the plywood with blue acrylics, and that made lakes and rivers slightly below "ground" level.

Pink foam (I use Dow Blue board) is actually not a good sound deadener, and also it does not hold screws well for track, so I don't use it under my track.  I used it for mountains and other terrain, including inclines for the track, but I put Homasote over it on the inclines, so I would have something to paint and to screw the track to.  Elsewhere in places I used foam to build up terrain, I covered it with Sculptamold before painting.  Used some ground foam, trees, and other products for some limited vegetation, often to conceal some of the joints of the sheets of homasote, but for a tinplate layout I kept that to a minimum.  For a more realistic layout you will be covering the homasote more completely.

Strogey: I use Homasote on top of USB and paint it a earth brown and have no problems with any scenery material. I have sprayed a 50/50 mix of white glue and water to hold scenic materials in place with no side effects.

Steve,

What's the best way to cut that on an angle? Sabre saw with a fine-toothed blade? I'm going to test a 4x8 sheet of the cheaper Blue Ridge stuff from Home Depot over 1/2" plywood, but will go with Homasote if that doesn't work out.

I have no personal experience with homasote but according to other posters on the forum, cutting it with a razor saber saw blade really minimizes the dust. I think Tom Tee beveled the edges with a router. That would give you the most consistent edge. 

Just in case you want to plan your budget a bit... be prepared for some staggering price increases for Homasote if you haven't shopped for it in years.  I was walking the aisles at Home Depot a month or so ago, and couldn't believe my eyes when I saw the price of a 4x8 sheet of 1/2" Homasote was $27/each, regardless of how many I needed.    In other words, no discount for bulk purchase. 

I think I'll move on to a Homasote alternative for the new layout. 

David

I made some Homasote roadbed, but I did it on a table saw. I cut strips with square corners, then set the blade to the 45 bevel, and cut the strips right down the middle. Less waste, less dust than with the router.

It works the same way as cork roadbed. The only drawback is the Homasote has different textures on the two sides, so when you split it this way, one half is smooth and the other is rough. But by the time you lay track on it, and ballast, it doesn't show or matter.

This is all well and good for straight roadbed, but to make curved, you'll have to kerf cut the strips. I do this on a radial arm saw by cutting about half way through the strips every inch. I bundle the strips together with tape, and cut batches.

This whole process could be done with a table saw only.

Strogey,

As long as you seal the Homasote with a flat latex paint, you'll be good to go. Cover seams with regular masking tape prior to painting. This prevents any water from seeping between the pieces when doing scenery.

Thanks Dennis.......Guess I should have looked in your book Huh?

We tried alternatives to Homasote, but went back to it. Spend the extra $$ and do as Dennis describes in his book, you will be pleased with the results.

That stuff cost 3 times as much as a 4x8 sheet. I bought 40' of straight and it was $100 after shipping.

When I was building my layout, I started out cutting it with a sabre saw using a knife blade.  After wearing and/or burning too many of those out, I tried using my band saw with the table set at 45 degrees.

That worked so well that I put the sabre saw away and never looked back.  Smooth and clean angle w/o any of the dust and debris.  Ok, you have to think a little about cutting some curves and angles due to the constraints of a band saw.  But, I suspect that since I am of little brain that most folks can handle this activity w/o losing any fingers or any other body parts.

Never bothered to paint it or seal it, and do my scenery directly to the surface.  I guess I don't use anywhere as much water in my scenery applications as others or I'm just more tidy,

I spent Thanksgiving with my brother in Pittsburgh.  Before I left we went to Home Depot and bought 4 sheets of Homasote.  $27 a sheet.  It's $50 here in Florida (when I can find it) with a 100 mile round trip to boot.

We split each sheet into two 4' x 4' pieces so they would fit in my USV.  We used just a 4' straight edge and four swipes with a razor knife while we stood in the freezing air and wind.  It took about 2-3 minutes per sheet.  We had to be accurate as the homasote was going to top four foot tables.

They traveled just fine back there on the 1900 mile trip back to the Florida Panhandle.  The extra miles were for excursions to 13 hobby shops and friends.  But that is another story.

Jan

I have to believe that Gargraves track(with soft wooden ties) would be quiet with foam or cork bed onto of 3/4 plywood.Without the freaking Homasote.What do you guys say?

Jim Barrett's comments in Run 269 seem to conclude that Homasote is too expensive and really unnecessary these days.

I agree completely.

Here in Arizona, I've never seen Homosote.  But we have a product made by Celotex which is very similar, but a lot cheaper.  It used to run about $10 for a 4x8 sheet, now about $15. (my local lumber store calls it "white builder's board) One advantage of it is that one side is painted white, so it already has a nice base for scenery.  With half inch plywood, Celotex glued to it, cork roadbed and Gar Graves track, I can hear the wheels click over the rail joints on the layout.

Just use the acoustic ceiling tiles.  A neighbor was throwing some out plus I had some damaged ones in the basement.  I think they are about the same as homesote and were free to me.  I did the same as others, cut strips on the table saw and then set the blade at 45 degrees and beveled the edges.

No way I would spend $27 a sheet....  I'd go bare plywood first!

I sure hope he's right, Dewey, because his method is what I intend to use to build my layout, assuming I decide not to spend the money on Mianne benchwork. My current Christmas layout is a 12" grid of 1x3's on a simple 2x4 table frame. The grid overhangs by about 12" all around, so that is my only disagreement with Jim. I went with the 12" grid because I used foam rather than plywood thinking foam would be quieter. While that was a mistake, I found I didn't need to use the 12" spacing, it would have been plenty strong using 16" spacing, or even 18"-24" spacing, with 1/2" plywood. I'll probably use a combination of 16" and 18" spacing because much of my layout will be 36" wide around the walls with the ends of the horseshoe being 48"-60" wide where I'll have access from 3 sides.

As far as my disagreement with the overhang, I'm not sure he wasn't just saying that the frame needs to completely surround the plywood vs the plywood itself overhanging the frame. That I would agree with, especially with 1/2" plywood, but I don't see why the legs can't be set back 6"-12" so they are out of the way. If there is a reason, I'd sure like to hear it before I start building.

The only real problem I found using 1/3's was finding straight ones (on edge), but even that hasn't caused a problem over the year the layout has been in and out of the house, they give enough to "fit". I have seen people buy 4x8 sheets of 3/4" plywood and cut them into 4" strips to make their frame, but I just don't see that as being necessary either, though I suppose that does minimize warping, etc. When materials were relatively cheap, it probably made some sense to over-engineer benchwork, and I suspect that N and HO scales are much less forgiving.

Strogey

Plywood, homasote, track, is what I use on my layout.  I've had it this way for 9 years and counting.  I did use a product called " Instant Roadbed" ( a rubber like product with adhesive on on side ) for the mainline roadbed ( on top of the Homasote ).  

I did not paint the Homasote .... just put it down as is.  Not a bad idea to paint it earth tones as others have suggested.  I've never had a scenery issue though with just the plain Homasote.  As a matter of fact allow the plain Homasote to be exposed in a few places where I want to have a parking lot and short road ..... the Homasote gives a concrete effect in those spots.

I find Homasote mutes the sound greatly.  Trains run pretty darn quietly ( if Proto sound or TMCC is turned off ) over the layout.

On the 4X 8 Christmas layout that I build recently, I used 1/2 inch thick by 14 inch X 48 inch length/width white foam sheets on top of 3/4 inch particle board.  This works well for this temporary layout.  I used 1 and a half inch screws to secure the track. Trains ran quietly.  Once the foam was glued in place, I put a snow blanket ( purchased from Harrison Trains ) over the foam.  Since this was a snow themed layout, the whitel foam bleeding through the snow blacked greatly enhanced the scene.

I hope this info helps.  Happy holidays!!

May I ask how you determined this? By that I mean, did you run trains with just the "Instant Roadbed" and no Homasote to compare noise levels? Or did the Homasote just run quieter compared to the track on plywood? I am so conflicted about the need for anything more than cork/rubber roadbed on plywood. And so many use Homasote simply because that's the way it's been done for so long. The same with 3/4" vs 1/2" plywood, L-girders, etc.

I just wanted to comment and share on the Homasote board topic.  Homasote is great if you can afford to fork out $26, $27 or more for one sheet.  I have used this material in the past when I had smaller layouts.  Today I have an entire basement layout and less getting a second mortgage on the house I'm not buying Homasote.  I wish that I could remember the name of the material--but at Menards--you can buy an 8 x 4 sheet of an insulation board that is entirely black in color--which is perfect for a scenery base--and it costs about $8.00 per sheet.  A 3 for 1 deal in comparison with Homasote!  Perfect if you have a bunch to buy.  The only "drawback" with this material, which is as perfect as Homasote, is when you cut it.  It is "messy."  I will accept that for the great buy and ideal material for a model railroad "top" cover of plywood material.  I just wish I could recall the name of this insulation material.    

Cork or rubber roadbed is fine on top of bare plywood. However, a flat plywood tabletop will still reflect the sound hitting it. Covering the entire surface helps alleviate some of the echo much like floor carpeting and drapes will in a room.

John C

Sounds like the black board you mention could be Quietbrace, about $10-11 per 4x8 sheet and just as effective as Homasote for muting sound..

Check Dale H's huge layout--he used it extensively.

This debate comes up every other month or so and will continue until the end of time

That Black sound board Is what I used. Its about $9.00 A sheet at Menards. I can not tell you the name of it. I used about 10 sheets of it on my layout and I have only  scraps of it left with no markings on any of it. and I know that I need 1 more sheet. when I get the chance to finish the last section.   Scot

Was just going to mention this. I was seriously leaning toward just using Flexbed road bed on plywood, this has now convinced me to try it.

Added later: I tried to find and price Homasote about a year ago, found it at only 1 place in town and I think it was like $42 for a 4x8 sheet.

Hi DoubleDAZ,

I had a temp layout for over a year with just Atlas track on plywood and it was pretty quiet just like that, even had it screwed down every few tracks. I am planning on using Flexbed, (sp) a dense foam road bed, I think if you go with a solid rail track and something like that you may not need sound board. Jim's article has really convinced me to try it anyway.

Also if you don't go with the Mianne, you might take a look at poplar lumber for your bench work. Pretty sure Mianne is made with poplar also. It's a little more expensive but more stable and usually much straighter than the kindling and firewood they try to sell as lumber at the big box stores. Think I've had better luck getting poplar at Lowes than Home Depot, seemed a little better there, at least around here anyway. Could differ in other areas? I have hand picked regular 1 by lumber, brought it home, carefully stacked it & let it set for a couple days, went to use it and it looked like W.C. Fields pool cue!

One of my favorite features of homasote is how easily and firmly it handles screws. Also for many items, such as small trees, an easily made hole with a punch or an awl is all you need do.

I have to admit I have not tried any of the newer products. I have always used homasote and really did not even think of checking other options when building my layout.

I used an air stapler so I can bend it to curves as I go.

Carpenter's glue and screws (anything long enough to tack it down tight - I used dry wall screws).  Remove the screws after the glue is set and you're set.

I think that will probably be the consensus. You may get other recommendations for adhesives, but I think the key is taking the screws out after the adhesive sets. And then making sure the screws you use to hold down the track are short enough so they don't go through the Homasote to the plywood.

I always just used dry wall screws to secure the homasote...if for some reason a change comes along you can remove the screws and re use. once its glued its glued ! CR john

Strogey I hope your Kidney Labs come back good.  I'll have mine done in about 1 week.