Sneeze shields on club layouts

Most of the ones I have seen are 6-8 inches tall. We have to protect Thomas and friends from getting sneezed on. Wouldn't do for them to catch a cold or the flu. Bad for morale and business!

My local hobby shop has plexi shields all the way around the layout, about 30 inches high. Sad thing is they had to do it to cut down on theft. 

On our Independent Hi-Railers, Mid West Division modular layout, we went with about 8" high around the layout, but at the freight yard, we did about 24" high. At the freight yard storage tracks, the public kept touching all the cars, so we went with much high plexi. 

It probably works a bit different for a modular layout vs. a permanent location. . Dont forget small kids often have to be picked up to be able to see, so they're in dad's arms with extra reaching ability.

You need to balance between the height of it, and the slingshot effect that ensues when someone pulls/hangs on it and lets go. Look at the plexiglass as more of a way to keep the trains in, than to keep hands out.

Since it looks like this is for a permanent install, you can probably reinforce the panes with aluminum channels or something (like hockey rink glass). I would tend to think a foot would be fine.

It's not only about keeping people from touching stuff. There is the "leaning" factor to consider. People tend to use these as a place to rest their arms (either one of both) thereby creating stress on the Plexiglas as well as the supports. You want them high enough so that the height makes it an uncomfortable position to rest on. This applies to adults more than kids and includes club members as well as visitors

we had 24" at the TMB club in Long Island. We felt the it was a bit too high 12-15" is enough

Chet:

I agree with all of the above comments. It has to be high enought to keep kids and adults from resting thier elboes on the edge and to prevent kids from hanging on it. I have studied this on the public layouts I run and maintain at the Gaylord Texan.  Parents will even stand thier kids on the top edge so they can see and don't have to hold all their weight. People will toss coins on the tracks, move things around the scenery, touch and grab moving trains and, yes, even take things.  The Lone Star Hi-Railers should go at least 18' over the layout surface, make sure it is well attached so kids don't pull it down and use Lexan(R) brand  plastic, not Plexi. Lexan does not scratch as much, stays clear and will bend, if necessary, without breaking. Oh, and I forgot, people will not thnk twice about "placing" thier children on the layout for a "Photo Opportunity."  I see this everyday.  

Forget the plexiglass. Be a man. Go with 120 volt electrified wire. 

 

Gerry

This is one of my pet peeves!  Don't put any shield  Whats the worst thing that can happen   Most people think of us train guys as grouchy old men because we build these plexiglass walls and yell at their kids

I don't blame any club for the issue for placing a window around the layout.  Seems parents don't teach their children to respect another's property.  What's next?  Letting them play on a railroad ROW?

Because our club is in a museum and open 6 days a week we had to put up Plexiglas as the kids would touch and de-rail the trains.  we even had to put additional 6 to 12 inch curve as the kids started reaching over.  if you go to our live feed you can hardly see the Plexiglas.

The Lehigh Valley High Railers use 6" plexi. As much as I hate to do it, we are thinking about going to 8" just because some people have a very hard time keeping their hands to themselves. We don't mind the reaching and pointing, that's part and parcle at a show. But some people think every train and button they see is one they are authorized to touch just because it is there.

 

Chris

LVHR

If the parents don't discipline their kids, I guess we have to then, right? 

No  So a train derails  Big deal

Well Ben, as someone who has firsthand experience with kids constantly ruining scenery items, taking fake and real rocks from the layout and put them on the tracks in front of trains to cause derailments, never mind constantly derailing them or breaking off detail parts by touching the trains too hard while they pass by or even deliberately pushing them off the tracks while moving, I'd say there are legitimate reasons to put some protection around the layout.  I think most of the public would rather see trains run than seeing nothing but a dead stop, and I'd rather embrace the philosophy of less time being spent to go behind and fix deliberate damage and interrupted operations and spend more time with the trains running and interacting with the public.

So some club member's expensive engine or rolling stock suffers broken detail parts or chipped paint due to certain visitor's deliberate carelessness, no big deal.  Is that what you're saying?

Just my opinion, but derailing the train REALLY isn't the issue. When you ask nicely, "Please don't touch.", and they still keep trying to pick the loads (tractors, etc.) off flatcars, or trying to pick some of the details off steam locomotives (to see if they are really tight), and the parents STILL don't react/respond, THAT is the real issue. 

 

Especially when young mom, explains that "We really don't like to tell little Billy no, because he needs to reason right from wrong out for himself."! Sure, with a 3 or 4 year old?

I do not like them at all. Makes it look like your trains are in a fish bowl. I have been doing public show since 1980 and have not lost an item yet. Yes tranis get derailed from time to time.  I just think it takes away from all the work that you put into it. Can't take pictures through it. 

Why not cordon off about two feet (or whatever is just beyond the reach) from the edge?

Some modular display layout groups do just that. The bad part about THAT set-up is, the vast majority of the WELL BEHAVED kids & parents, can not get up-close and personal with the operating trains.

I personally feel that plexiglass, or some type of roping, says that the modular group is trying to "protect" the viewer...especially the young ones. Kid's fingers on track. Train runs over fingers, or falls off onto foot. Parent sues modular group for "attractive nuisance". FAR more costly than replacing a engine.

 

The other drawback to Plexiglass is that it reflects...making shooting photos difficult. I have seen people placing a camera behind it, for a shot, in the path of a train.

Guys

You can ask any member of the Nj HiRailers that I am adamant about not putting anything up.   The kids are what the open houses are all about not a member running his trains.  I tell members not to run if it bothers them.

 John I do have a little experience in running trains at an open house.  So far in 10 years of open houses we had one subway car get a crack in it as the result of a kid touching.    I swapped that members car with one out of my personal collection to make good for it because its my policy.  Until there is somebody else as chairperson of the club we will not have any walls built between us and them.

In my opinion, HW hit the bullseye. I've never seen, in my near 10 years of modular club railroading, seen the plexiglass stop a derailment from hitting the floor. Sure we've had some good wrecks but not good enough to the point where the plexiglass is serving an actual "restraint" purpose. 

 

I can think of MORE than a number of occasions where, despite plexiglass and a few "please don't touch" messages, people still didn't get the picture. One occasion, at a county fair type display, where Junior, with the help of Mom and Dad, started "pushing" and lifting, droping and whatnot a brand spankin' new MTH Premier K4. The owner kindly asked them to stop only to be verbally "shot down" from Mom and Dad who, in the process found it fit to go on about how they aren't that expensive and we need to mind our own business and not discipline their children. That may be an extreme example, but I also blame the parents at times. 

 

There are kids that are VERY respectful and we usually do offer a DCS or Legacy remote to them. I know if I acted like some people seen in today's shows, my father would have dragged me out of there by me hair. Being respectful at shows, as a kid or adult, gets you miles further than the other option. Nearly EVERY modular group in my area offered me a remote or throttle at one point or another when I was a kid because I wasn't grabbing everything and kept my hands "in my pockets". 

 

I DO think there can be a "happy medium" between building the Great Wall of China and  no protection. I personally have found 8" to be the ideal size. Perfect to allow viewing yet perfect for keeping fingers away and, when the time comes, trains on the table. 

That hasn't been a real issue with our group, as we have been asked many times if it was OK to lift out the plexi sheet in order to get a better close-up photo. In fact, many of our guys have asked the photographer if they would like the plexi removed.

Done that and the PARENTS move the stanchions and ropes closer to the layout. We also ended up adding 6" Plexiglas all around.  RC3R is a modular club. I wasn't thrilled about the cost and extra effort to setup/transport the barriers.

 

That said we've had children grab cars off of moving trains. The mother was very indignant when we chased the kid down and took the MTH Premier caboose away from him. She got ticked and just couldn't understand why we wouldn't let him keep the "cheap little toy".

 

Last year a young fellow with Pica defoliated all of the foam/liken off of my bridge module. I asked him to cut it out, he said something to his mother, she said something to him, he looked back at me, smiled and went right back to eating. No reports in the newspaper of a poisoning the next day. We're going to have to extend the height of the bridge Plexiglass just to maintain the foliage.

 

Gilly

Ben,

   I agree with you, the shields might keep some damage and theft down but they tell the kids your really not welcome.  The Iron Horse layout in the main store had safety glass, the big main office layout, up stairs had none, I still remember Frank's words, "the kids will be allowed to touch this layout, or we will not build it."  Watching the kids around both I saw the difference in how they acted.  Now the modulars that move all the time, that might be a different thing,  IMO some of the parents today have no control of their children. 

Ben my buddy Frank would have liked your attitude, one time at a train show

Frank had a kids play section set up, and one of his trains was run so fast it came flying off the track, I started to get up to say something to the child and Franks big

hand came down on my shoulder, keeping me in my seat.  David children are what these shows are all about he said, let her alone.  That child was my own 4 year old Deaf Daughter, until she was about 6 years old, and understood how to control train speed, Frank and I fixed every train engine she ever wrecked.  He gave her a big button with the Lionel Girl on it, its said Trains are a Girls Best Friend.  Vanessa is 36 years old now and still has the big button in her apartment.  Thanks for being the way you are with the kids.

PCRR/Dave

 

 

The aisle is only about 4' wide, 2' would not be enough room to walk.

 

To me roping or plexiglass doesn't say, "We're looking out for the visitors", it says stay back or don't touch. The bad part is you have to do it because some people just don't get it that these things are expensive or that their kids a little monster. And some adults don't seem to get it either, picking things up to look at it with out even asking. It would be nice if people weren't like this but that's not the world we live in so we need to protect our handiwork from the morons and their kids.

As for the people who make excuses for their kids just ask them to nicely to control the kid or they will have to leave, if they get an attitude too bad.

the firehouse in Dundalk has a 3 or 4 rail railing about 2 feet out from the perimeter with a small step for the kids to stand on up at the railing to get a good look, problem is there's a lot of adults who stand on it blocking the kids view so there probably is no perfect answer to the situation.

 

Jerry

How often do you have your layout open to the public?  At our club, every day except Mondays is an open house, on average 6 hours a day, all year long.  So unless you're open to the public that frequently or more then that makes the overall interactive environment with the public a little bit different, methinks.

 

At any rate, your noble effort to replace someone's car is all good, but unless you have on hand every possible replacement engine or car, including those that are hard or impossible to find whether new or secondary market, that's not going to help much if you have any other incidents caused by the public.

 

By all means, use the model that works for you and your club.  Our own experience doesn't match yours, and I suspect that might be because we are exposed to the public more often than your club probably is (correct me if I'm wrong), so unfortunately we had to add another layer of precaution.  We more than make up for any preconceived notions you may have about how that makes the club look by providing a 2-level children's interactive layout with a loop on each level where kids or adults can press buttons to make trains go round, and we also interact with the public by talking to them, letting them try out our Z4K, TMCC and DCS remotes, and even occasionally allow people to come inside of the layout to see it behind the scenes.  The museum itself that we are housed in also provides a dedicated little play area complete with Brio-type trains for kids to get their hands on and play with to their hearts content.

 

So I would say that we more than make up for any preconceived notions you may have about how that would makes a club look from the public's perspective.

We have our main club layout in the lobby of a Hobbytown USA store in Kennesaw, GA.  Our solution was to place the layout inside a depot like structure with a four foot high solid railing around the perimeter. The railing is set about three back from the layout.  The layout itself sits higher than the railing and we provide long wooden boxes for kids to stand on and watch the trains.  The railings are also modular and can be removed to facilitate access to the layout on work nights. 

Curt

You got me there  You win the open house contest. Its actually a simpler solution  They don't have to run their stuff  We have plenty of others that will

"We more than make up for any preconceived notions you may have about how that makes the club look by providing a 2-level children's interactive layout with a loop on each level where kids or adults can press buttons to make trains go round,..."

I'm not sure what the pre-conceived notions are about how such a bi-level layout makes the club look...but from personal experience I would not have it any other way. I bought my modules this way from another club member and they have been a hit so far on the three shows I've attended with them.  Parents have told me how much they like the idea of having some trains where the kids can see them without being held. The plastic panels are 15" high, the lower level table is 31" from the floor. The panels are secured with plastic ties to the bridge which carries the main tracks over the lower level. When not at a show, the modules are part of the basement layout, without the panels, so grandson has full (supervised) access.

It's all good Ben.  Your no-plexiglass rule works for you guys.  I suspect though that if you were open to the public like we are you might actually think differently. 

 

Have fun with your trains, and if I'm ever out that way I'll try to look you guys up.

Here's the kid's view of the two level modules. Taken in 2011. Improvements have since been made in trackage and addition of push buttons to control action accessories.

 

I bought some plexiglass for around my layout but not to keep kids hands out, but my trains in as stated above. That little safty wall dose not take anything more then four inches high.

Ben said it perfectly, in my case all the damage ever done to my trains where because of something I did or mechanical issues, not due to that of little fingers.

 

Of course for a business I can really understand the theft problem, but that said I have been to the NJHR's open house a couple of times  and they have a real up close and personel layout and it is fun to watch. That said Ben did have to smack my hands a couple of times when I trid to touch the Disney Monorail.

Mario

I never said anything about not yelling at adults LOL

Well put, Sir.

My dad and I bring a traveling, 10 x 20 foot layout to our local train show in Ottumwa, IA every year, and have 8" plexiglass around it. I agree with earlier posts in that the glass is mainly there to keep the trains in, at least for me. I'm really not that worried about kids touching the trains, scenery, etc. It happens every year, but usually it's minor. My problem is unsupervised kids, running wildly around the layout chasing trains, or putting cars on the tracks at grade crossings, knocking down telephone poles, etc. When these kids start causing trouble, I usually stop the trains and let them sit until the kids either start behaving or leave.

Our modular club uses Plexiglass that is 12" tall I think. They've been using it for longer than I've been a member, so I can't comment on whether there were problems that prompted the use or not.

 

As for the photography, I'm always looking for an excuse for why my pics turn out so terrible. I don't think I can blame the Plexiglass too much though:

 

 

J White