The NEW Michigan and Great Lakes Build Thread - Trackplan Updated 7/17

I like your ideas.   You will find this a lot of fun.   I find this type of layout much more fun than display type running.

 

I am not sure what you mean by  "balloon track".   However, I definitely include a passing siding/run around track, probably near/in the ferry yard.

 

Also consider 2 or so Interchange tracks on the other side of the room.   The cars off the ferry can then be sorted to different interchanges and taken over there and setoff, and cars on the interchange can be brought back to the ferry for loading.   Maybe the ferry yard just needs to be a double ended siding for run-around and maybe 1 more track as you have it now.  

You don't show where the walls and doors are nor where access to the layout will be.  The reason I am asking is do you have to keep the area in front of the closet free or is it allowed to dock something moveable in that space (I.e. the ferry)?  The ferry could set sail whenever your wife wants access.  This gives you a little more room.

 

Is your room just 11' x 11' 3"? 

 

Since you have a nautical theme a lift bridge or bascule bridge across the layout entrance would be nice.  If your table height is high enough the bridge could make a non-duckunder entrance to center,

 

There are other wharf scene you could include like a coal/ore transfer dock.  Warehouses.  Freight forwarding by trucks.  Even a small passenger station to wisk the passengers to their final destinations.

 

Jan

 

Jan

 

I will re-do the file so it shows where my doors are better.  What is nice about the room is there is no windows so no worry about having to go around them.

 

I really like your idea of having the ship in front of the closet doors.  I had always envisioned it on a cart that can "sail" away.   I will work on that over the weekend and re-post another layout idea based on that.  

 

I also planned to do a draw bridge instead of my duck under!

 

 

I like it!

 

Peter

Jim, the plan looks good. I'm trying to squeeze more opperation and switching into my own. My favorite engines to run are my 0-8-0's. I run Gargraraves with Ross turnouts. I realize track is a big investment and if well planned you shouldn't have to tweak it much over the years. Seeing that it's not a huge layout. Which can be a good thing. Have you considered going with all Ross track. On a short line such as this that probably wouldn't see a nicely ballasted or raised mainline. The Ross that is spiked and shows no rail below the ties. Looks a lot better. I realize you end up with a few more rail joints but you can't beat the uniform appearance of the track. Mine features a mix. I weathered my track after ballasting as years ago no one seemed to do this. I'm still finding shiny Gargraves rail below the ties.

Ok guys here is a 3rd track plan.

 

I used Jan's idea of putting the ship in front of the closet.  It will be on wheels and be able to be rolled out of the way to "sail" but also access the closet.  

 

I will have to go with a duck under with this design.  I am ok with that.   I also do not wan to make the layout too tall since I have two toddlers that love to watch the trains.

 

All the way to the right the track that runs right against the wall will be hidden using a partition wall.  It will be where the trains "leave" the layout to go to the next town over or where they "come back".  I wish I was able to have two sets of tracks back there but I just will loose too much room.  

 

 

In looking at this thread and the one in the main forum, it seems to me that the ferry should be on the outside of the mainline instead of trapped between it and the wall. You had mentioned that there would be a downgrade from the main to the water but the track isn't that long even at 4% to drop much. I don't see how the ferry could be moved much to clear the closet without hitting the adjacent bench work as it would be too tall to go underneath.

 

Maybe you could consider a variation of the 1st plan where the ferry is against the far wall but next to the aisle. This way the from the wall you could have the hidden storage track behind flats of warehouses then the main, then the storage yard at water level then the ferry. If you started the ferry lead on the other side of the room this would allow you to have sufficient distance to give some reasonable elevation between the ferry and the main plus give enough room for a adequate lead, sorting area and a short siding for the idler cars. This also would give you a hint of a larger body of water next to the edge of the layout rather than the more scenically awkward placement between the main and the wall/closet. I would try to keep the track next to the closet as simple as possible so it could be a simple lift out when access was desired.

 

On layout height, I would build it at a good working height for you . Too low can induce back pain and any duckunders become worse with age. Remember, toddlers tend to increase in height over time so I would supply the necessary safe platforms now to help them see it which could be discarded in the future.

 

Peter

Thanks for the comments and tips Peter

 

I agree on it being on the outside.   I am looking at another variation of it being in the upper left hand corner.  

 

I do need to make the lead longer, as i want to

be able to sort trains and load/unload the ferry without fouling the main.  

 

I also modified the track along the right hand wall.  I didn't want just a straight run of track.   

 

 

 

 

 

Build a closet in the basement where you have more room and remove the existing unit to enhance layout potential. Been there done that except the new replacement closet was built in spare attic space instead of a basement.

Dewey

That is a possibility but the carpet doesn't extend into the closet and I will have to extend the drop ceiling.

 

Dave I will have a mix of Ross/Gargraves.  I will mostly use flex track to be honest and bend a lot of the broader curves myself.   I plan to fully weather my track and have a dark ballast/weed cover/dirt cover on my track.  Hopefully it will hide the 3rd rail.  None of my track will be fully ballasted/raised roadbed as none will be any type of mainline.  

Here is a trackplan I really like.  It has several operating possibilities.

 

The one thing I really want is a way to turn the train around though.   Not sure how to implement a wye or a balloon track.  Any suggestions?

 

 

One of the issues I am struggling with is that I have a lot less space for scenery!

 

There are several buildings and vignettes I want to be able to have have such as my grist mill, Harbor scene, and more.  I might have to find a way to add them.  

 

Maybe my hidden staging track will have to go under the layout somehow to make room for more scenery.   Maybe it will have to go under the layout, do a loop to turn the train around and come back out the same way it went under.  

With your room that you have , a wye would make this more difficult. The same goes for a balloon track unless you like access hatches which is something you have said you don't want. You've said that you want more realistic operations, so I don't think a reverse loop is necessary.

 

Think building flats and partial buildings instead of standalone structures for a lot of this. This kind of scene would likely have a backdrop of warehouses, factories so you can create this in a much narrower space. Think thin and vertical! This way you'll still have room for some full 3-D signature structures.

 

I still think your storage track would work best hidden behind a series of flats or going behind/under buildings but not diving under the benchwork. You'll add a lot of complexity and be diving under the benchwork more often.

 

Is the space in front of the closet open for access and around the ship? if not you are looking at access hatches.You really need to keep benchwork widths 3' or less as you won't be able to reach (you already have 4' widths on the right side). You will need to balance access with track to avoid repeating "mistakes" from the last layout.

 

Peter

Peter

 

Maybe this will clear up a bit how I will access the closet.   

 

I do know the space on the left from the closet to the north wall is a bit far for reach but I can live with that.  There will be no trains out that way and the scenery will be pretty simple.  

 

 

I also have decided not to have any grades at all.  The roadbed will be level for the entire layout.  It will be about 4 inches above the water.  The height of the tracks above the water on the car ferry.

 

That clears it up a lot! You do have some reaches but at least the switches are all within a reasonable distance as that tends to be the problem locations. I think that will be a fun plan to work with . You'll be able to scenic and detail to your heart's content without being overwhelmed in track.

 

Peter

Reaching into the ferry somehow would be my main concern. Something will end up in there eventually. Murphy told me so.

Something I have considered.  I will try to re-configure it a bit and see what I come up with. 

 

Here is another modified trackplan.

 

I eliminated the town near the bottom of the grain elevator to make it easier to reach the turnout along the partition wall.   The will will have a spur with factory fronts along it.

 

I also plan to make the extra spur near the grain elevator as a gang track.

 

 

Jdev,

I have been trying some options to turn the train around. The balloon track or reverse loop requires two. However, there was an interesting balloon around a yard. Northwestern Pacific RR, Eureka, CA. Near the bay.

 

What size switches are you using or what's the minimum radius curve you will run?

Wyes sometimes are used for only reversing a trains direction. Other times, it services a customer at the end of the line and provides a way for the train to turn around.

 

It seems a 3-switch wye would work at the bottom of the diagram off of the straight along the left. You would lose some of the open space in the center, service those industries off of a stub or connect to the main. Crossing the table is the only way to get enough length for a full train to fit. 

 

Another possible place is the top of the diagram as you exit the wall, but that would cause all kinds of planning problems with the main.

 

You need about 30" of straight for a 036 dia. switch combo and 60" of straight for an 054 dia. combo.

 

My measurements are using Atlas track in SCARM. I don't have the small divergent curve extensions to properly work with Ross switches yet.

 

The concept is attached. Used 054 for example. it really gives you two reverse loops or a back-in and forward-out (or vice-versa) scenario if you stub it.

 

BTW, I have always liked the ferry\barge as that's how most everything gets to Alaska. (my primary rr.)

Moonman

 

Great idea, I played around with it but I really do not want to loose any of my aisle space. As I am planning on running this layout based on realistic operations, not having the ability to turn the locomotive or train isn't the biggest of deal.  If I have to go the other way with the train I will just have to use the passing siding to run to the other side of the train and couple up to the front coupler of the locomotive.  

Play around with that top right area with some curved switches. Could come down to that industry and use a crossover on the main.

I like the staging area being partitioned. Adds a viewing option for "looping" and lots you could do with it too. Even multiple faces for a scene change if the partition is made to be removable. Dowels? Being able to lift it off would also make reaching the track behind it easier.(can you tell Im short).

I will be able to access the hidden staging two ways.  

 

#1 I will keep the benchwork behind the staging area open.  I will not put down any plywood and mount the track directly onto the stringers so I can crawl under the layout and reach up in case of any derailments.  

 

#2  I will mount the back drop to a frame with velcro so that If needed I can pull it off and access the track there.

 

 

Here is another view of the trackplan with all the industries labeled.  Not all industries will be serviced by the train though such as the grist mill.  

 

 

My experience is that 4 inches of width is more than enough for a track with cars on it.    I would consider adding a second stub end staging track behind the partition.    It looks like you are using at least 6 inches back there now.    Squeeze down the front a little and add a second stub staging track against the wall.

 

then the 2 staging tracks could be two different RRs for operation.   That would require sorting cars coming off the ferry and out of the industries to 2 different  connections.    It would add more operation.

Good idea. I will work on that.   It would be nice to have more then one train on and off the layout at a time.  

There's a lot of space that is water by the ferry.  If the ferry could be in front of the closet then that space becomes available for industrial development.

 

I don't have the FasTrack libraries for RR-Track but do have Ross.  I took a stab at moving the ferry and this is what I came up with.  I used a RCS #4 slip switch in the ferry yard to gain some space.  Also, my radii are likely larger that what you are going to use, but this design illustrated my ideas.

 

Jan

 

 

Small change but it makes for a little bit of interest in the operations.

 

Many ferry companies in the big cities had their own railroads which basically served there to load and unload the ferry, spot cars at the freight house, and maybe served a few very local industries.  Their total trackage and property would be a few 100 feet of track and a few acres.  They would only own one small locomotive and the idler cars necessary to move the cars on and off the ferry.  It was likely that the loco could never be turned which means that the engineer would need to be able to see well to the rear as well as forward.  If it was a steam engine it would likely be a saddle tank or 0-4-0 with a slope back tender.  A small diesel switch would also be appropriate.

 

Now for the small change.

 

Jan

 

 

Jan

 

Thank you for your efforts in the trackplan change. I agree it would add a lot of interest.

I had looked at having the ferry in front of the closet but decided against it early on.   

 

It would be too close to the closet to allow access to it.  Also the reach in the upper left would be too far and I would have to install an access hatch, something I really wanted to avoid.  I want all the track and turnouts to be within 3 feet of the aisle ways where I can reach them.

 

As for the locomotive.  I agree that turning them isn't very important.  As for the type back in the steam days almost all the great lakes car ferry companies used 0-8-0's to load and unload their ferries.   

New idea to get a wye on the layout and a different staging area.  Will post it later. 

Try using a curved switch to add an extra track to your staging area behind the partition.