What is smoke fluid made of and what are its harmful effects (if any) on train & track?

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

Running two old time Lionel steamers, a Hudson and a Mohawk (care to guess my RR?) and I have spilled a little steam-fluid on to the track and over one engine.

I have pretty much cleaned it up but was wondering what the possible side effects might be? Does anybody know?

Only that you'll have to buy a new bottle sooner...😁 No, if you " pretty much cleaned it up" I suspect you'll be fine.

Mark in Oregon 🎄

For old time steamers, the effects are minimally cosmetic at best, and pretty easily cleaned up.

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

Running two old time Lionel steamers, a Hudson and a Mohawk (care to guess my RR?) and I have spilled a little steam-fluid on to the track and over one engine.

I have pretty much cleaned it up but was wondering what the possible side effects might be? Does anybody know?

Michael,

If it were corrosive in any possible way you wouldn't want it going up your nose, in any concentration at all, in the form of smoke or related vapor.

If it won't hurt you, it won't hurt your locomotive or track.

Mike

It is my understanding that most smoke fluid is basically a mineral/paraffin oil base with essential oil extracts for scents and are generally considered harmless with reasonable use and amounts.

If you want a purpose marketed cleaner, there is always JT's Mega-Steam b-Gone.

An article in another toy train magazine several years ago, told the history of smoke development in models, and listed the main ingredient as basically harmless light oil, as bmoran4 mentioned above.

Just be careful running smoke if you have anyone in your house with asthma, other lung issues, or sensitive to smoke or strong smells. I don't run smoke on my trains because my wife is asthmatic and it bothers her. Unfortunately I don't have a basement to run trains and here in Western New York it gets too cold to feel like running trains in the garage so I make do with the one room in the house I do have. Hopefully will have one track running by Christmas if everything goes good so I can run the Polar Express set.

Most interesting topic!!  This brings up a couple of other questions.  What are the differences between manufactures fluids?  I realize that each manufacture recommends that their fluid be used in there engines and cabooses.  Over the years I have purchased many different brands of trains.  Recently I purchased a Lionel Legacy B-6 switcher. Did not come with the usual vial of fluid.  The manual clearly states to only use "Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid" in the engine.  It warns not to uses smoke fluid that comes with regular Lionel Train sets.  I have a drawer full of different fluids.  Lionel, MTH, K Line, Super Smoke, Aristo, LGB, Marx, American Flyer, Sluth, and Life Like.  Most are clear liquids with different scents.  The older Life Like is deep purple.  It is a little more liquid than the others.  Generates a lot of smoke and has a different licorice sort of scent.  Original American Flyer fluid is my favorite scent.  Brings back many happy memories of that simpler time years ago.  Just wondering what affects of using different fluids can have on different engines?  What is the differences between regular and premium fluids if any?   Also anyone who is sensitive to perfumes or fragrances needs to be careful with the fluids as with those who have  asthma.  Thanks for your thoughts!!

Dave     

An article in OGR Magazine (Feb. 2004... note the online index incorrectly says Mar) also had a good article on this subject, and why you shouldn't substitute other fluids for smoke fluid. I have been going through back issues and read it recently.

Here is a recipe for mineral oil smoke fluid (scented).

I never had the guts to try it.

https://www.innovativehobbysup...uid-for-Model-Trains

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOHlY71aPsA

John

@Bruce Brown posted:

That's very cool... 👍

Mark in Oregon 🎄

The only negative effect I've heard from others about smoke is from those who weather their fleet. The oil tends to leave a "stain" over any area that you weather, which you have to wipe up and re-weather. I think a few here on the forum can speak for this. I have a weathered Lionel Mallet I purchased second hand and I can see a bit of marks where the fluid was dripped on.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

The only negative effect I've heard from others about smoke is from those who weather their fleet. The oil tends to leave a "stain" over any area that you weather, which you have to wipe up and re-weather. I think a few here on the forum can speak for this. I have a weathered Lionel Mallet I purchased second hand and I can see a bit of marks where the fluid was dripped on.

And there you have it! When I was active in 3RS modeling, EVERYTHING was weathered, the track, the buildings, the locomotives and the cars! I NEVER allowed ANY locomotives with the "smoke turned on" on the layout! The darned oil residue from the smoke (remember, what goes up must come down) would get on the track and scenery, not to mention ruin the weathering on locomotives. Aside from the fact I have asthma, I detested the aftereffects of smoking locomotives.

Very interesting on the ingredients.  Wonder how many little white pills, 5 plus lbs. of ingredients would make?  I remember just a faint smell from the pills.  First generation engines with the smoke bulb used different pills that were quite toxic and gave off a certain scent that was a bit hard on the nose (ammonia smell) and  somewhat corrosive to metal  Fortunately  the smoke bulbs  did not work very well, so a different coil wound unit was developed with a better pill.  As long as they were kept dry the pills could last indefinitely.  Seems what most people remember about a Lionel steam engine is the little white pills that you put down the stack.  Ahhh, those were the good old days when an electric train was the top hoped for gift and meant as a toy.  Still my hoped for toy at 70!  Thanks for the info on using different smoke fluids.  Will look it up as time permits.  Thanks again!

Dave   

When I was much younger in the 50's, I would put the engine in neutral, crank up the voltage until a large cloud of smoke was created than inhale it through the stack and exhale.  Looked like you were smoking.

Amazing we survived childhood back then.

Yes, played with mercury  at school.  Dipped dimes in it to make them shine, then put them in our pockets.  Used carbon tetrachloride to clean oily and greasy things.  And as in the First edition, 1955, of "How To Build and Operate a  Model Railroad", it was suggested that powered asbestos can be used to make plaster for mountains on a layout!  Never did that but still wonder how we made it this far.

Dave

The smoke fluid used in our trains is pretty close to the fluid used in our smoke generators we use in the fire service for training. Used some in an older piece I have with no I’ll effects to me or the locomotive.

Smoke is my favorite locomotive feature.

Knowing very little about it, I keep things basic and simple: for Postwar steamers, I use bits of the smoke pill; for modern Lionel, I use Lionel Premium (4 to 8 drops immediately before start up); for MTH, I use Protosmoke (6 to 10 drops immediately before start up). I don't run anything for more than a few minutes at a time.

The key is to not run smokers dry, always keep at least a little fluid in it while running, and don't overfill.

The more smoke, the better. Arnold

its simple, the smoke pills were wax, the fluid is mineral  oil !

@Michael Hokkanen posted:

Running two old time Lionel steamers, a Hudson and a Mohawk (care to guess my RR?) and I have spilled a little steam-fluid on to the track and over one engine.

I have pretty much cleaned it up but was wondering what the possible side effects might be? Does anybody know?

Michael.  We have a few Premier steam engines.  I once used far too much smoke fluid.  I do not know what bonding material is used to join the walk way on the sides of the boiler to its structural part but the smoke fluid softened that material and I could lift the walk way had I chosen to do so.  John

Don’t forget riding your bicycle behind the mosquito fog truck. Waited for that truck every day! I think I’m the only normal one in this forum :-)

I’ve been breathing model train smoke for 50 years. I can go on the treadmill for an hour without an issue.
Some folks respond very strongly to smoke fluid. My wife, who is asthmatic asked me not to run smoke as it bothered her. I switched to Nada and never a complaint or sign of distress. Which is not to say that some people do indeed react to train smoke. Some very well may. But I’ve seen where people have opinions about smoke bothering them and it really doesn’t.