4x8 layout dated 05/1/12 (031-036 with 060 crossovers)

A link to the layout or post would help us help you.

Chuck

https://ogrforum.com/f...2520031%2520plan.bmp

Plan #1 with 3 sidings.

A list was posted in the thread, but here it is. Be advised that the dimensions for the O31 curves were off when that was posted, so you might want to enter it into SCARM to see if it still fits.

And FWIW, it was simple to find the thread by searching for posts by Mike Donahue on 12/1/2012.

 All this time thought that was the list for the second layout on the post since it included only 1 bumper and no 060 switches.

Thank you sir!

Well, you might be right now that I look at it. If you give me some time, I'll enter the layout in RR-Track and get you the correct list. I assume you haven't downloaded/learned SCARM.

Dave, you are correct. I'm new at Fastrack and actually not sure i'll really be o.k.missing the Click/Click of my old-school. I've been out of the "Loop" for some time.

Cant thank you enough sir! Layout will actually be on a 5x9 board set if that helps the fit at all?

Stephen, it still fits, but the O31 geometry did change the parts list a bit. When it comes to 5x9, it can easily be expanded by adding 10" straights to both ovals. I've attached a 2nd photo and I'm sure you'll be able to see where I added the 8 tracks to the straights and curves. I also attached the SCARM file for the 4x8 if you want to download/learn SCARM.

Parts List

No.	Image	Number	Name	Scale	Producer	Pcs.	Note
1		6‑12014	10"	O	Lionel	17
2		6‑12015	O36 45°	O	Lionel	8
3		6‑12019	X90	O	Lionel	1
4		6‑12023	O36 11.25°	O	Lionel	4
5		6‑12024	5"	O	Lionel	2
6		6‑12025	4 1/2"	O	Lionel	2
7		6‑12026	1 3/4"	O	Lionel	5
8		6‑12035	Bmp	O	Lionel	3	Bumper, lighted
9		6‑12045	LT O36 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
10		6‑12046	RT O36 Rmt	O	Lionel	1
11		6‑12057	LT O60 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
12		6‑12058	RT O60 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
13		6‑12073	1 3/8"	O	Lionel	8
14		6‑37103	O31 45°	O	Lionel	9
Total:						66	Tracks count: 66

I can't thank you enough sir! This is awesome!

You're welcome, Good luck with the build.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Stephen, it still fits, but the O31 geometry did change the parts list a bit. When it comes to 5x9, it can easily be expanded by adding 10" straights to both ovals. I've attached a 2nd photo and I'm sure you'll be able to see where I added the 8 tracks to the straights and curves. I also attached the SCARM file for the 4x8 if you want to download/learn SCARM.

 

Parts List

No.	Image	Number	Name	Scale	Producer	Pcs.	Note
1		6‑12014	10"	O	Lionel	17
2		6‑12015	O36 45°	O	Lionel	8
3		6‑12019	X90	O	Lionel	1
4		6‑12023	O36 11.25°	O	Lionel	4
5		6‑12024	5"	O	Lionel	2
6		6‑12025	4 1/2"	O	Lionel	2
7		6‑12026	1 3/4"	O	Lionel	5
8		6‑12035	Bmp	O	Lionel	3	Bumper, lighted
9		6‑12045	LT O36 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
10		6‑12046	RT O36 Rmt	O	Lionel	1
11		6‑12057	LT O60 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
12		6‑12058	RT O60 Rmt	O	Lionel	2
13		6‑12073	1 3/8"	O	Lionel	8
14		6‑37103	O31 45°	O	Lionel	9
Total:						66	Tracks count: 66

Hi,

I think the O60 FT switches require at least one 1 3/8" fitter piece (without roadbed) or two with roadbed to join the turnouts together, which may put the geometry of the design off.

Gary

here's my take on it- had to increase the space on the ends to 7 1/4" and remove the straights on the inside O31 loop.

I see the changes, all except "removing the straights on the inside loop"? Thank you for your input too!

One of the things Carl did was replace the 10" with 30" to save connections and probably money. I always use 10" sections when designing, but I should have mentioned the 30", guess I was in a hurry.

He also increased it slightly to better fill the space. I would have done that, but I was trying to get you something quickly and the 3D view in SCARM showed it was already pretty close to the edge taking into account the plastic roadbed. Then you said it could be increased to 5x9, so I figured you'd make whatever adjustments fit your landscaping plan and add any tracks to the parts list or ask us to do it.

As for removing, all I see is the 4 1/2" tracks replaced with 5" tracks.

I'm extremely grateful and humbled by the help i'm receiving here from everyone! This is clearly the place to be. I cant wait to start building and enjoying my family's trains all over again.

Best Regards!

Steve.

Stephen K posted:

I see the changes, all except "removing the straights on the inside loop"? Thank you for your input too!

The plan, as designed by Mike Donahue, has 1 3/8" straights in the center of the O31 curves . These are not needed due the aforementioned curve error in RRT at the time.

Then, the straights in the O36 curves had to be lengthened for it to fit.

The 30" straights reduce the cost (and the track joints) as they are less expensive than 3-10" pieces.

Steve,

I am trying to understand where the layout will be installed. Are you going to put it on a ping pong table that folds in half and can be moved or stored?

Or, will you put it on a table that folds to/from a wall?

I am reading fold out from a wall.

Are there any buildings or operating accessories with the family trains?

Placing the 4' x 8' layout on the 5' x 9' will allow for some buildings and scenery and a transformer around the outside.

If there are operating accessories, then we can adjust the track plan for those to fit and include the needed operating tracks(milk car, log car) or accessory activation tracks (gateman) for those.

Also, if you want to operate two trains, there are some electrical considerations. There is a wire on the 1 3/8" piece between the crossover switches that will isolate the two loops electrically by removing it. But, there is a concern as a train crosses from one loop to the other.

FasTrack has terminals on all of the larger pieces to make transformer connections. This layout should have two on each loop.

Carl, Yes it will fold out from a wall like a Murphy bed on its horizontal. Looks like i can go with the 5x9 plan or even 6x10 if needed. The "box" on the wall is going to be 10" deep and the lower hinge is to be on a slide so that when you open the layout its not on the floor. The slide will allow you to raise the hinge side up to waist level for comfort. The other end will have fold out legs. The only components i hope to permanently mount besides the Track of course is Streetlights, telephone poles. Short items like that. My ZW and any structures will not be permanently mounted at this time. I don't have any structures that are usable right now anyway. I did plan on isolating the inner loop from the outer for two train use as you mentioned and probably using 4 terminal tracks per loop as i always disliked that uneven power distribution concern when i was a kid, LOL! My Father used to take me to the Reading yards as a kid and to a Coal yard as well to watch it all "happen". I'm 52 now and he's gone but this is like Christmas morning all over again! Fastrack is completely foreign to me as our old Layout was all 027. All of that is no longer usable due to corrosion. It was in different box's than the Trains that somehow got awful wet at one point. All of our Trains including my Grandfathers are fine however. I finally have the means to go forward with this, the time to do so is another story as usual. Making little mistakes and figuring it all out is part of the fun as i remember. Any input from everyone is sure appreciated! I'll post pic's as i go.

Steve

Carl, I got it now. I think Steve and I were both thinking you were talking about changes to the layout I posted where I made those same changes.

I've decided on a 5x9 size. Question now is can this be modified to utilize 042 on the outer loop and 036 on the inner? God i want that new 700E (464) Vision in a bad way and it requires 042 it seems.

Happy 2016!

This is FasTrack right? There is no O42, so I converted it to O48 and O36.

Oh geez sorry, typo on my end. Love this version even better, more realistic curves. Thank you Dave!!

Always glad to help.

Dave,

You left out the 1 3/8" no roadbed between the crossovers. The O60 switches won't fit together without it. it also provides a way to isolate the loops for two trains running. You are used to the 12xx warning in RRT.

Stephen K.,

I have marked up the track plan for the small pieces. The inner loop will be a trial and error with the center spacer in the curves. one 4.5"+ a small is a little short and 3 small pieces are a little long. There are no perfect combinations for that space.

Carl, I had no idea what you just said until I checked RR-Track. I just went by whatever SCARM said would join, but I see RR-Track shows the 1 3/8" connector and won't make the joint. I assume that's the 12XX error you mentioned.

That's another reason I prefer RR-Track, it lists the connector with the switches in the library to avoid that "mistake". Seems to me that SCARM should error the joint if the piece is missing. How is someone supposed to know before they buy the track if they're not familiar with FasTrack, like me? I guess I need to go back to doing these in RR-Track first and then convert them to SCARM. RR-Track has it's faults, but at least it wouldn't let me join the switches without the connector. Doesn't someone make crossings that also need connectors?

Adding the piece does change the geometry for sure. I see that I had a 1 3/4" piece on the left side where it should have been a 1 3/8" piece even though SCARM didn't error the joint, but that's moot now because the connectors are needed.

Also, I don't know what you have your join error set too, mine is set to .50. I believe the default is .20, but that's for HO. If SCARM shows a joint using .50, then the track is supposed to give enough to make the joint. However, that's why I don't use track that doesn't have flextrack.

At any rate, I also added the connector and SCARM was able to show everything joining using 4 1/2" with 1 3/4" pieces for the outside curves and with 1 3/8" pieces for the inside curves. Maybe I missed something though or it's the difference in the join error setting. The last thing I want to do though is steer Steve in the wrong direction. I think it will all fit, but I'm not the one buying the track expecting it all to fit. I'd worry more if the track were just going to sit on carpet and not be attached to a wood tabletop.

Thank you! You've both probably helped me along to the tune of weeks and saved me $!

Just noticed that when i order the 060 switches they include 2 1/2 roadbed extensions and 1 no-roadbed extension.

Stephen K posted:

Thank you! You've both probably helped me along to the tune of weeks and saved me $!

Just noticed that when i order the 060 switches they include 2 1/2 roadbed extensions and 1 no-roadbed extension.

yes, FasTrack that requires the small pieces includes them. You can make other track join where there should be a small fitter by cutting back the roadbed. I don't recommend that unless it's absolutely needed for custom fitments.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Also, I don't know what you have your join error set too, mine is set to .50. I believe the default is .20, but that's for HO. If SCARM shows a joint using .50, then the track is supposed to give enough to make the joint. However, that's why I don't use track that doesn't have flextrack.

At any rate, I also added the connector and SCARM was able to show everything joining using 4 1/2" with 1 3/4" pieces for the outside curves and with 1 3/8" pieces for the inside curves. Maybe I missed something though or it's the difference in the join error setting. The last thing I want to do though is steer Steve in the wrong direction. I think it will all fit, but I'm not the one buying the track expecting it all to fit. I'd worry more if the track were just going to sit on carpet and not be attached to a wood tabletop.

 

Dave,

I use the default setting of .079 and 2°, which essentially it means it has to fit. Then, when building, one can take advantage of whatever flexibility is intrinsic with the track system and still ensure a good and tight fit.

You don't want a lot of close enough with molded roadbed track systems because it's just not the rail joints, but 3 1/4" of roadbed that has to mate properly.

I have had no fitment issues with builds of multiple track systems with these settings.

If you vary that tolerance, you'll proof it when you build.

Carl, I set mine back to default, so we'll be in sync.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Carl, I set mine back to default, so we'll be in sync.

Dave,

Don't do it to sync with me. Do it to be on the safe side with fitment until you get build experience and know how much play you have in the various track systems. I don't like gaps in the rail joints.

I wasn't Carl. I don't use SCARM enough yet and it seems quite a few are using FasTrack, so I don't want to post a design I think will fit only to find out it won't. Based on my experience with RealTrax, I'm not so concerned about those using a platform as I am with those just laying it on carpet. I'd rather tell someone it may not fit based on tighter tolerances. I do remember the discussion though about the default tolerance being for HO and too tight for O.

Just ordered everything and a few extra pieces. Oh boy, better get some Overtime now! 

Thanks guys!

Steve

Steve,

have fun building it! post some photos if you can. its an interesting project.

Yes, enjoy the building process and let us know how it turns out.

Realizing this question probably belongs on another page...Has anyone tried using Automotive style spray-on rubberized (not the kind that never dries and stays goo like) undercoating on the bottom of Fastrack to deaden the "Ice skate-like" noise?

Steve