Adding horn and smoke to Forney GP7 - looking for suggestions

@Mallard4468 posted:

At York I acquired a standard gauge Forney GP7, currently being manufactured by Classic Model Trains.  It's a huge, powerful beast (on the SGMA layout at York, a similar unit pulled 18 State Set cars without breaking a sweat).  Since there is so much room inside the shell, I'm thinking of adding a horn/bell and smoke, and am looking for suggestions regarding which products would work best.

The loco runs conventionally and is powered by two huge can motors using a Dallee #1400 12-amp electronic reversing unit.  It runs on 0-24 volts AC and draws 4-7 amps.  Not interested in converting to command control.

Dallee and Williams both sell horn/bell units.  The Dallee is a bit more expensive and does not include a speaker, but maybe it plays better with the Dallee e-unit - I don't know.  I've also seen a diesel sound unit from ERR, but I know nothing about how they work.

For smoke, there are two huge smokestack openings.  I'm looking for a system that will be simple to install and easy to use - not worried about prototypical puffing.  I have a couple of spare MTH and Lionel smoke units, but not sure how to wire them into a conventional loco.

Pics are attached.  Please take a look and offer suggestions regarding products, methods, and any considerations that I might be missing.

Thanks.

this may work and if not in a trailing unit?

LGB#65003 AMERICAN DIESEL SOUND UNIT

This sound unit gives the typical sounds of an American diesel locomotive.

Now you can add digital sound to your LGB locomotive! This module combines electronics, volume control, and a speaker all in one, compact box (60 x 68 x 23 mm / 2-3/8” x 2-11/16” x 7/8”). It’s small enough to fit easily into most LGB freight and passenger cars or in the cab of many LGB locos. Just connect two wires to track power or to a locomotive general-purpose socket, and you’re ready to enjoy digital LGB sound. This unit offers an authentic diesel chuff sound. With the LGB Multi-Train System, you can activate by remote control additional sounds like bell, whistle, brake sounds, and station announcements. All LGB Sound Units are equipped with a Multi-Train System sound decoder and are thereby ready for MTS operation. In analog operation the standing sounds power supply unit (LGB 65011) can be added so that you can hear the sounds made by the locomotive when it is stopped. The sound module function activation unit (LGB 65012) can be added so that bell and whistle sounds can be activated by means of track magnets. Note: LGB sound modules are specially designed for easy, do-it-yourself installation in a car or a locomotive cab.

Craig

PennCentralShops

You could use the MTH Protosound 1 smoke unit, it is powered directly from track power.  You can either make a manifold to supply both stacks or just use two smoke units.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You could use the MTH Protosound 1 smoke unit, it is powered directly from track power.  You can either make a manifold to supply both stacks or just use two smoke units.

Thanks for the info.  I figured that I'll need to fabricate a manifold.  I didn't know that PS1 units ran directly off the track - that would simplify things.  Don't PS2 & 3 units use 5v DC?

Are you talking about something like MTH parts AA0000011 or AA1200064 (or anything on the MTH parts site that is marked for PS 1)?  What is the minimum and maximum voltage they will handle?  The engine can run from 0-24v AC, but it only takes 6-10 volts to run at a reasonable speed.

I have a steam engine chassis that I picked up from MTH at York a couple of years ago with the idea that I could cannibalize the parts for other things - it cost less than the cost of just the smoke unit.  Please see the attached pics - is there a way I can know if it's PS1?  There's no part number that I can see, but it has FLIH stamped on the side.   

I am indeed talking about the AA0000011 or similar smoke units.

The biggest issue with 24V is probably the TO-92 5V fan regulator.  Figuring on 40ma for the fan, the power dissipation of the package would be around 3/4 a watt.  That's probably going to result in the 5V regulator going into thermal shutdown, do that enough and you'll  eventually kill it.  If you run at 12-14 volts max, you have no problem.  A short burst of speed at higher voltages isn't a major issue, but sustained operation at high voltages will probably be detrimental to the health of the smoke unit.

PS/2 & PS/3 smoke units are just a smoke resistor and a fan motor, no electronics of any kind.  Both the heater voltage and the smoke fan voltage are independently supplied by the DCS board.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I am indeed talking about the AA0000011 or similar smoke units.

The biggest issue with 24V is probably the TO-92 5V fan regulator.  Figuring on 40ma for the fan, the power dissipation of the package would be around 3/4 a watt.  That's probably going to result in the 5V regulator going into thermal shutdown, do that enough and you'll  eventually kill it.  If you run at 12-14 volts max, you have no problem.  A short burst of speed at higher voltages isn't a major issue, but sustained operation at high voltages will probably be detrimental to the health of the smoke unit.

PS/2 & PS/3 smoke units are just a smoke resistor and a fan motor, no electronics of any kind.  Both the heater voltage and the smoke fan voltage are independently supplied by the DCS board.

Thanks.  Ordered the AA0000011.

Playing with the smoke unit that I posted previously, I was able to determine that the fan runs on 5ish volts DC.  What is the input voltage for the PS2 smoke resistor?

Is there an instruction or spec sheet for the PS2 smoke unit available online?

The PS2/PS3 smoke unit has a 5V fan motor and two 16 ohm resistors in parallel, yielding 8 ohms.  It operates between 6 and 8 volts as a rule.  Note that the smoke unit is driven by a PWM output, so just measuring the voltage from the board doesn't work.  However, more than about 8 watts into that smoke unit will give you lots of smoke, but quickly cook off the fluid and then cook other things.

Got the AA0000011 PS1 smoke unit from MTH parts and a Williams Dash9 horn/bell/sound unit from Bachmann parts.  Total cost with shipping was $140.

The duct to the back smokestack has a piece of clear acrylic as the bottom of the chute - a little difficult to see in the picture.  Nothing special about clear acrylic - it's just what I had laying around.