An (inspired) O-scaler's lament -

My dad is an O-scaler and that’s what got me into it. Like you, I received a start in the form of a ton track, controls, buildings, and some trains from him. Space constraints have always been a challenge. If I was starting from scratch, I think S-gauge is the perfect size. Availability of new product is an issue for sure, but I’ve always thought of it as the Goldilocks of the scales. Plus, it’s two rail…

I think about it a lot for a lot of reasons.  I model modern era and there are certainly a lot more structures and modern rolling stock in HO.  That said I just can’t do it for a few reasons…for one I have a lot of time and money invested in O and selling it off won’t get that back. Secondly I just love the scale and as I get older and my eyes and hands aren’t as good as the once were the big stuff is easier to work on.  I’m too far committed in O to turn back now.

@woodsyT posted:

I am new here, but.... the space that I have doesn't readily allow the wide radius turns that I have imagined for the main lines. I have dozens of post-war locos & engines and probably 200+ pieces of rolling stock including several operating accessories - not to mention all the platforms, stations, lights, engine houses, turntable, all the salvaged track. I guess I know what I need to do, and I am lucky to have this 'problem', but the urge to go BIG and try to squeeze it in and set it ALL up is strong. We used up about 900~1000sqft with my granddad's table - I have about 150~160 sqft.

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

I often ask myself whether I should build an HO layout and I quickly conclude that it's not for me. In my opinion, O gauge trains are much more impressive than HO.

Think of it as a challenge. Prove to yourself how good a modeler you are by making an interesting O gauge layout in a small space. My room is about 400 square-feet in which I have two layouts - 12'-by-8' (96 square-feet) and 10'-by-5' (50 square-feet). You can build an around-the-walls layout 3-feet deep with an O-72 outer loop or an island style with a 12'-by-10' table, also O-72. I don't think you need large radius curves for most postwar locomotives. My smaller layout is just an O-54 oval and I sometimes run a scale-sized Hudson steam locomotive on it. Today, there are plenty of beautiful engines, especially switchers, that run on O-36 curves.

Build yourself shelves on the walls to display all your trains and rotate all of them onto the layout periodically - a different set of trains every week.

It's your decision of course. Either way, I hope you will appreciate and enjoy your (and your grandfather's) trains.

MELGAR

one of the advantages of having a Christmas time only layout is that from year to year I can change everything that I use if I want to.  This allows for me to rotate things so that I get to use everything that I have at least once every 3 or 4 years.

It's why I never wanted a permanent layout even though I have the space, time, and resources to build one.

- walt

As I get older (73), eyesight becomes an issue. O gauge is a good size for my eyes. HO and the smaller gauges become problematic.

@woodsyT posted:

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

Nope, HO is too small and twiddly for me.  I also don't have room for all the neat features of modern O-scale stuff.

@woodsyT posted:

I am new here, but not new to Lionel/O-gauge trains. Roughly 47 years ago I started helping my grandfather wire up a large table in his basement in Elmira, NY with several scale miles of track consuming almost all of the basement square footage. It was an exciting and formative experience for me.

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

Yeah...

Two thoughts...

and...

----------------

Seriously, though...This consideration you're having...I'm assuming the sentiment is in the concept of 'trains-in-the-basement' rather than 'bringing-my-Grandpa's-trains-and-the-memories-to-life-again'???

Well, TEHO.

But, it would be a no-brainer for me: Grandpa's trains will live again!!

BTW...Will there be anyone helping you, having an exciting/formative experience of their own, who will be challenged by this same crossroads in another 47 years?

It's a toughie.  Take your time making this decision.

KD

@dkdkrd posted:

....it would be a no-brainer for me: Grandpa's trains will live again!!

KD

Same for me.

Plus, there's plenty of modern O gauge on the market to add to the collection and run on the new layout.

MELGAR

@dkdkrd posted:

Yeah...

...BTW...Will there be anyone helping you, having an exciting/formative experience of their own, who will be challenged by this same crossroads in another 47 years?...

I wish... I have two daughters in their early 20s working in elementary ed. & art/history. I often had them fixing things with me when they were young, but they never enjoyed taking things apart and making sparks like I did. My nephews are just out of college working in real estate & science and none of them live near my home, but maybe when I see them during holidays - they liked stuff like this, but I may have missed my opportunity. Grandpa's trains will ride again! The 'sentimental' aspect of ol' trains is part of what is interfering with my planning. My extended family has always encouraged me to set up a table and get them running again, but a measure of survivors guilt and the fact that grandpa gave them to me, not to any of his other seven grandchildren makes me a bit self-conscious. I have offered to all and shared with them as  much as they would accept, and there is still plenty of train gear.

MELGAR remined me of what was right in front of me - space for an island I DO have. I slapped a quick and dirty island kit with 72s, 54s & 45s in a 11' x 13' space out using free anyrail. I was stuck in thinking about 4ft deep L's or U-shaped tables. I am reinvigorated!

I have seen some of the modern O stuff and I love the way they seem to be able to creep along, but I think that I'll start conventional - and see how far I get into this.

Re: And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

I had both HO and N (and still have some of both) but my primary activity is and will remain O.  If I had reduced space, going with "traditional" sized O would be much more fun and satisfying to me than "scale size" HO or N.  In fact, if you select it with a smaller space in mind, there is a lot of "scale size" O that will work on O36 or even O31 diameter curves. This is one of the great benefits of 3-rail O.

So my answer is: No, I would not scrap or sell my O gauge for HO.

If I had all this stuff from my grandfather i would never give switching to HO a thought.  Check out ken o scales book, he is the master at designing layouts for the space challenged.  His designs are primarily for another track system but the general ideas can be adapted to what you have.  Modify as needed and you should have a working layout in no time.

HO.....NO!

@woodsyT posted:

MELGAR remined me of what was right in front of me - space for an island I DO have. I slapped a quick and dirty island kit with 72s, 54s & 45s in a 11' x 13' space out using free anyrail. I was stuck in thinking about 4ft deep L's or U-shaped tables. I am reinvigorated!

I have seen some of the modern O stuff and I love the way they seem to be able to creep along, but I think that I'll start conventional - and see how far I get into this.

woodsyT,

I got back into the O gauge hobby 25 years ago and, as I said, have two layouts that are relatively small with elementary track plans. I run conventional only. I just don't think that command control is necessary on my small/simple layouts. Modern trains with realistic sounds and speed control will creep along running conventionally. I'm including a video of a recent run of two trains on my 12'-by-8' layout.

MELGAR

The trill of having my Grandfathers trains would be,just that,a thrill..I've had an HO layout.I can run more O gauge trains in the same area then HO trains.Though,we run Post war,mainly Marx.If you decide to keep your grandfathers trains,enjoy them as much as he did..The main thing,have fun..

Instead of a square or rectagular table, try a longer approach.

Find a place where you can up old or new O gauge/O scale track on a long narrow shelf.

A 6" wide shelf that is over 100' long.

Andrew

@woodsyT posted:

I am new here, but not new to Lionel/O-gauge trains. Roughly 47 years ago I started helping my grandfather wire up a large table in his basement in Elmira, NY with several scale miles of track consuming almost all of the basement square footage. It was an exciting and formative experience for me. Now, I have gotten to a point in my life where I have some space to build my own table with all of the 'kit' I inherited from him a couple decades ago when he passed. I will confess that as I begin planning my layout, the space that I have doesn't readily allow the wide radius turns that I have imagined for the main lines. I have dozens of post-war locos & engines and probably 200+ pieces of rolling stock including several operating accessories - not to mention all the platforms, stations, lights, engine houses, turntable, all the salvaged track.
I guess I know what I need to do, and I am lucky to have this 'problem', but the urge to go BIG and try to squeeze it in and set it ALL up is strong. We used up about 900~1000sqft with my granddad's table - I have about 150~160 sqft.

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

I was in HO from childhood (my Dad got me started), until 1.5 years ago.  There were time gaps, and even a N Scale period, 20 some years ago.  But I always wanted to go to O at some point.  I was intending to do 2 Rail, but decided on 3 Rail for a few reasons.

Only you can decide, what is right for you.

Two thing I can say.  Model railroading is a great hobby, and this is a good forum if you decide to go the O route.

I dabble in multiple scales - they all have their pros and cons.

Regarding space, keep in mind that what we O-gaugers call wide radius doesn't take much more space than "average" radius curves in HO.  Although O is more expensive, much of the cost advantage of HO has disappeared in recent years. 

Visit some layouts, meet some local folks, and find out where your interests lie.  Discover what moves you, and go for it.  One size does not fit all.

@woodsyT posted:

I am new here, but not new to Lionel/O-gauge trains. Roughly 47 years ago I started helping my grandfather wire up a large table in his basement in Elmira, NY with several scale miles of track consuming almost all of the basement square footage. It was an exciting and formative experience for me. Now, I have gotten to a point in my life where I have some space to build my own table with all of the 'kit' I inherited from him a couple decades ago when he passed. I will confess that as I begin planning my layout, the space that I have doesn't readily allow the wide radius turns that I have imagined for the main lines. I have dozens of post-war locos & engines and probably 200+ pieces of rolling stock including several operating accessories - not to mention all the platforms, stations, lights, engine houses, turntable, all the salvaged track.
I guess I know what I need to do, and I am lucky to have this 'problem', but the urge to go BIG and try to squeeze it in and set it ALL up is strong. We used up about 900~1000sqft with my granddad's table - I have about 150~160 sqft.

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

I have to say that while the thought (it's not an urge or anything compelling) came into my head many, many years ago, I would not go to HO.  Some things I think:

• Nothing has the visual impact and the heft of an O gauge train.  Nothing.  O has superior sights, sounds, and smell.
• HO is (as someone else pointed out) finicky.  I've gone to numerous operating sessions and had to push stalled trains.  No thanks.  HO trains are much less tolerant of track abnormalities, grades, and even humidity.
• Nearly every HO guy I know has a Brite-boy grafted onto on of his hands.

If you decide to stay in O-gauge, I would advise you to:

1. Pick quality over quantity.  Vastly larger is not always better.  Plan your scenes carefully.
2. Be selective regarding what you model.
3. If it is a postwar layout, plan for maximum play value without cramping everything.
4. If you are modeling a prototype railroad and era, pick scenes and structures that convey the feeling of it.

Best,

George

@MELGAR posted:

... I just don't think that command control is necessary on my small/simple layouts. Modern trains with realistic sounds and speed control will creep along running conventionally. I'm including a video of a recent run of two trains my 12'-by-8' layout...

Right on. I have begun reading and catching up on what I've been missing in O-gauge across the past few decades and it's a lot to take in. Your 12x8 looks great, by the way! And if that's what the modern trains will do with conventional operation, I'm excited.

My Grandpa and I spent a lot of time trying to get his postwar trains running smoother, but as soon as we got one running better/quieter/smoother it felt like it was only a matter of months before 'the spell' was broken and it started humming/buzzing/grinding again.

The newer control systems kinda snap my neck a bit, but I think some of the part I enjoyed was being more hands-on throttle, etcetera.

@G3750 posted:

• ...Nothing has the visual impact and the heft of an O gauge train.  Nothing.  O has superior sights, sounds, and smell...

Right on. You jogged my memory taking me back to the smell of the old engines once they got warmed up - especially the F units. They had such weight/heft to them and they sorta smelled like a diesel train

@falconservice posted:

Instead of a square or rectagular table, try a longer approach.

Find a place where you can up old or new O gauge/O scale track on a long narrow shelf.

A 6" wide shelf that is over 100' long.

Andrew

I agree with you, Andrew. Mine isn't that big, but I've got a layout approx. 40 feet long and 4 feet wide, with O Gauge trains going different places in my basement.

Oops, I just edited this post. I initially thought you said 6 feet wide and 100 feet long, but now I see you said 6 inches wide and 100 feet long. You truly have an exceptional long and narrow layout. Arnold

I started out with O gauge being setup at Christmas by my dad. 10 years later I came home at 12 years of age and found it was all gone and HO was in it's place. I enjoyed HO and STILL have all of it. In 2004 my wife bought me the first Lionel Polar Express set. It brought huge memories back of trains with my dad. In 2013 I stopped at our local hobby shop to ask about getting the HO converted to run DCC.  Answer - trade it in and get new to $$$$. So I ask about getting the Polar Express O Gauge changed to new command Control. Answer - $$$$$$. Ended by buying two DCS Sets and have not looked back. Now have a 50'x30' layout. I run Conventional, DCS and Legacy.

To answer your questions, I understand more than you can imagine about trains with your Grandpa or trains with my dad in my case. Would I get rid of them? NO, I would not. BUT that is me not you. YOU and YOU alone have to make that decision. Either they go or stay. If they stay, they either sit on shelves or get run (or both). That is your journey to decide.

Yes, HO takes up less space. Having had and run HO for so many years I can honestly say I am much more happy with O. Just the detail alone is more rewarding. Yes it takes a ton of space but you can also make a small 4x8 table and still have tons of fun and realism. It also can ALWAYS be added to.

Biggest thing of all is YOU CAN RUN GRANDPA'S TRAINS AND STILL RUN MODERN COMMAND TRAINS ON THE SAME LAYOUT AND SAME TRACK!  You just can't put them both on at the same time with ease (it can be done as I have done it but it is tricky and you best be VERY alert).

In Ending, I would say stay with the O, but make it so you can run both. Start SMALL. You can always add as you get comfortable. Most of all ENJOY the process. The COMPLETE PROCESS! From designing - Building - Detailing AND RUNNING. What ever you decide you can ALWAYS get advice whether via a forum, Club, LHS or just asking.

Ride the Adventure and enjoy the results. It can be a very wild adventurous fun ride so hold on.

Curtis

Sell yes, scrap never.  Only reason I'm considering H O is the control system mess plus the parts problem. The other reason is the cost of the O gauge turnouts I have to have. But you've got your Grandfather's trains. I could never get rid of a collection like that. Please keep them and bring them back to life.

@woodsyT posted:

I have begun reading and catching up on what I've been missing in O-gauge across the past few decades and it's a lot to take in. Your 12x8 looks great, by the way! And if that's what the modern trains will do with conventional operation, I'm excited.

...I think some of the part I enjoyed was being more hands-on throttle...

woodsyT,

This video is another example of conventional operation that shows an MTH New York Central ALCO RS-3 diesel operating on my 10'-by-5' layout at 9 scale miles-per-hour. When you're starting a small layout, I think it's best and easiest to get it up and running with conventional control. You'll have plenty of work to do - build a table, lay track, do some basic wiring, and buy a transformer and some locomotives. After those things are done and you've got some trains running conventionally, you can decide on whether to add command control.

MELGAR

I recently picked an HO model of my favorite locomotive not made in O scale (SD40-2F)and a loop of track to "test the water" a bit with HO. While it was neat to see it running, it just didn't have the same feeling as my O gauge. I'll echo so many of the previous comments about the heft and smells as well as the nostalgic factor of running those old trains. One of my first homes was a townhouse with a very tight stair case to the basement. I was going to set up a layout, but couldn't even get a full sheet of plywood downstairs. I ended up making a 4' x 6' Super O layout that was still enjoyable to use and I still have to this day. You may not be able to replicate your grandfather's layout, but I'm sure you'll be able to come with something you'll enjoy equally. 

Rob

The best reason to stick with three-rail 0 gauge is the ease of wiring. I tried H0 in my teens and the reversing loops were nightmares. Also add to the plus column the lack of needing to re-gauge wheels, and hand-laying track for the smoothest run. But best of all is that 0 is dependable, and in fact it seems the older the train the more dependable it is.

And where else will you find all those operating cars and accessories?

You don't have to pick only one scale.

I am a "rubber" gauger, I have 5 separate layouts in two houses I own.

They are Z gauge in a coffee table, N on a 6 by 3 table and a German Marklin HO 3 rail layout in a one car detached garage - all at one 3 bedroom house.

The City house has a 7 by 8 mixed HO, O 3 rail, O two rail, On30 and Lionel Standard gauge layout and test track.

I have DCC, DCS, TMCC , AC ZW & Z4000 and DC controllers on my test layout.

I have a separate 6 by 3 "portable" N layout that tilts vertical to save space, when not in use.

I am planning a large 19 by 20 layout for my "Game Room" converted two car attached garage.

The large layout will be Lionel Standard, AF & Ives Wide Gauge, O31, On30, On3.

The Ceiling area will have G gauge and 072 loops.

The outside will have a  G garden layout with a indoor terminal and yard inside the Carport.

This should keep me busy for many years in my current retirement.

I suggest that you look for a club in your area if you don't have room for a layout.  The club could be permanent or modular.  Running your equipment on a club layout is often more fun than operating alone in your attic or basement.  It is also a good way to learn about wiring and other modeling skills.  NH Joe

@artyoung posted:

...The best reason to stick with three-rail 0 gauge is the ease of wiring. ...But best of all is that 0 is dependable, and in fact it seems the older the train the more dependable it is....

@robmcc, I am fond of the SD40's (and dash 9's) too. When I see these enormous 'big-boy' locomotives for $2~5k I wonder why anybody would spend that much, but I might consider some pricey SD40's to link up 3~4 in a row! I'm in NorfolkSouthern country - it's almost only SD40 & Dash9's around here. I especially like the blue/silver paint scheme I've seen on a renovated Dash9. I've only seen it once though...

@totrainyard, You mention what I remembered a few days ago. - "This should keep me busy for many years in my current retirement. "

- This ain't meant to be a project/contract that I have to finish. There ain't no deadlines!

I'm looking forward to wiring up. I've been tinkering wire wires as a hobby and profession for decades and the more I think on it and read what you have all replied with, AC is the way to go. Also I was kind stuck in a loop for a few weeks imagining what I might build my table out to look & run like. I couldn't get away from dreaming up long runs with wide turns and sorta 'completing' my grandpa's dream. His health couldn't navigate his narrow steep basement stairs in his later years and we never really finished scenery/decorating his table - it was a pretty large table though...

In any case - you've all helped restart my thinking/planning for this table, but don't hesitate to share more ideas. My room is 14ftx16ft - along the 16ft wall is a door to a closet/water-heater and the house elec. panel is in the corner - the staircase is opposite the elec. panel corner, this means that I have 11'-ish by 13'-ish for my table. BUT -for a couple days now I've had a sneaky feeling that an island layout is the way to go.

I prefer Lionel gauge for ease of wiring, abundance of supply and the anti-derailing switch tracks.  I can throw down a carpet layout through multiple rooms very quickly.   I had a 4x8 HO layout when i was younger but i eventuslly went back to 3 rail.

I am working part time on building a permanent layout 907 miles from my home.  It's a challenge but in the new building there are very few obstacles.

Here's a few more comments to add to this extensive thread with over 1000 views!!  I'll open with 2 observations:

• Most of the local train fairs I attend seem to have a predominance of HO items, so I am intrigued by the overwhelming support for O gauge items on this thread...BUT
• ...the title of this forum is O Gauge Railroading On-Line Forum, so I think it only makes sense to expect a  bias toward O gauge.

And that includes ME!  I have a similar dilemma with lots of O gauge rolling stock and vintage Lionel accessories from my teen years.  My "dream" layout in retirement (nearly completed) is an around the room configuration with a lift up panel in a 9X14 room (see photo).  I have 2 main levels with multiple main lines and sidings, and a 3rd level which is really a short siding that "continues" into a fake tunnel.  Most of the curves are 031 to accommodate the limited space.  This limits some rolling stock, but I'm fine with that.

I would also agree with the advice in constructing an O gauge layout posted by George (G3750).  If well planned, O gauge works just fine in a limited space.  Go for it!

Michael

As others have said, it really depends what you are looking for . My layout space is roughly 9x14, I built a U shaped layout with takeout bridge at the open side to allow me to have 072 and 064 on the main runs to have 2 mains (I love having trains that run opposite on the two 'mainlines'). I thought about HO or even N for this layout (I didn't really have much invested in O at that point, most of my trains were inherited or from Christmas under the tree setups).

Obviously with both of them, you can put a lot more in the given space, I could have a turntable and roundhouse which I can't do in O with the space I have and the equipment is going to be in some ways less expensive (problem with HO and n is the small size, you can store more!). Especially if you like operations, with HO or N you can do more in a smaller space like the OP and I have. S actually is interesting, because you have 2 rail trains and the size of the equipment is actually pretty close to what traditional 3 rail O was done at for the most part.

And likely even with realistic pricing of the O you have, you could offset the cost of the HO equipment you might buy.

For me, in the end I figured out that I simply liked O gauge 3 rail trains because they are 3 rail O. Maybe like my star misaligned rooting for the NY Jets, I inherited it from my dad, but I like them as they are.  When I saw the video of the late Marty F's amazing layout, it kind of struck a chord in me, that he built this amazing layout that looked great, ran well, but also was still in some ways "playing with trains" (and I don't mean that in the least derogatory way,totally admiration, I meant that you could see the joy and fun Marty had with them, in everything he did on there).  Don't get me wrong, I love layouts in any scale that go after realism, as a kid I read MR magazine (still do) and I do want to try and make my layout look good and at least somewhat realistic (for example, I am not using tinplate track, using Ross).

And given how slowly my 9x14 is going, how for a variety of reasons I just have worked as fast as I likely could have, I also realized that even if I had the kind of space where I could build a layout like the folks you see in OGRR magazine I likely would be even more overwhelmed.

And like with your grandad (on a much smaller scale), I have the trains that were mine as a kid which includes the stuff inherited from a set of trains my mom got my dad as her first Christmas gift to him and that means a lot.

The other nice part, as someone else mentioned, you can run your grandads trains conventionally but still be able to walk around. Using either the DCS variable outputs or Lionel Powermaster w a tmcc or legacy base, you can control conventional engines. You can even run multiple trains if you do block wiring and have the ability to run 2 trains using the handle (ie have blocks with selector switches) on 2 different loops. You can also run a conventional engine on 1 loop, and a command control on the other (if you have any). Other options are to run the trains using the 'handle' on the transformer, or possibly to convert engines you run a lot to use command via ERR AC commander.

In the end, it all comes down to what pleases you.It sounds like your grand dads trains meant a lot to you and for you it could come down to having those trains running are both fun and a nice remembrance of him too.

Another thought, if you still have some hankering with HO, the realism, large trains, etc, nothing to stop you from belonging to a train club. I have toyed with joining a club that is here in the Northern NJ area, that has a large HO layout whose expansion, well, proceeds at a snail's pace,not surprisingly. What tempts me? The guys hand laying the track, of all things....unfortunately it is relatively far away and when I was commuting 5 days a week made it near impossible..now that it is 3 days a week, might be able to swing it

Great posts.  Tons of insightful and thoughtful considerations.  I wanted to throw my 2cents in and echo what everyone has said.  

I started with Lionel O scale when I was younger and in my 30s when I moved from apartment living to purchasing my first house, 1/2 the basement was dedicated to a layout.  Life happens and I never finished that layout.   Moved from PA to NC where, at least in this area, houses are built on slabs.  Basements are rare. And while I would set up a loop of track in the spare bedroom, I never fully got back into it.

Fast forward 15 years to last year, my wife surprised me with an anniversary gift of one of the newer lion chief train sets.  She ignited a spark which quickly turned into a forest fire.   Now facing the same challenges with space, I considered HO. But, for all the reasons mentioned here, it’s not the same. The features, the sounds, the impact of the larger models - speaks to me more than the smaller scales.

The one comment above that really hit the nail on the head is when they said to consider it a challenge to see how creative you can get in your given space.  You will have to compromise. Figure out what’s most important to you with the layout and focus on those elements.

Here's a PS to my previous post on using O gauge in limited space: I had to replace my classic Lionel 022 (and some 072) switches with OLR (O Line Reproduction) units. They are O gauge units, but their switch motors have a much smaller footprint, which allowed me to incorporate lots of sidings in the limited space on the layout.  Also very reasonably priced.

Michael

@woodsyT posted:

I am new here, but not new to Lionel/O-gauge trains. Roughly 47 years ago I started helping my grandfather wire up a large table in his basement in Elmira, NY with several scale miles of track consuming almost all of the basement square footage. It was an exciting and formative experience for me. Now, I have gotten to a point in my life where I have some space to build my own table with all of the 'kit' I inherited from him a couple decades ago when he passed. I will confess that as I begin planning my layout, the space that I have doesn't readily allow the wide radius turns that I have imagined for the main lines. I have dozens of post-war locos & engines and probably 200+ pieces of rolling stock including several operating accessories - not to mention all the platforms, stations, lights, engine houses, turntable, all the salvaged track.
I guess I know what I need to do, and I am lucky to have this 'problem', but the urge to go BIG and try to squeeze it in and set it ALL up is strong. We used up about 900~1000sqft with my granddad's table - I have about 150~160 sqft.

And now, to confess my troubled thoughts... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

My last layout was 6 X 15 feet (90 square feet) with O-54 and O-64 curves.  If you have 150-160 square feet, you could re-plot this track plan to use O-64 and O-072 curves.  If you delete the military railcar base I had on that layout, you would have a lot of room for structures, industries, etc.

Don't forget that accessories look great in the corners of layouts.  In this photo you'll see the Lionel operating lighthouse in a front corner of the layout, bringing light and sound close up to the visitor standing in front of the display.  The refinery scene of a catcracker, oil wells and storage tanks were fit in between sidings, another way to maximize the space you have for a layout.

I hope this info is helpful.

@woodsyT  George @G3750 made a great point when he advised you:

   "Pick quality over quantity.  Vastly larger is not always better.  Plan your scenes carefully."

On my last layout, I stole an idea out of the Victory Garden book about using the "one-square foot" approach.  In that book, the author outlines how to plant a different vegetable or spice or whatever in each 12" X 12" square.  I used the same approach with a lot of small scenes like this dog park between a diner and a pet store.  You might want to think about George's advice and the "one-square foot" approach, especially if you have figures in "action" poses.

Here's another example, "Railfan Park" at "Railfan Tower".

I hope this info is helpful!

My "O" scale lament,..   

   A few weeks ago there was a thread about Godzilla appearing on a layout,..   I thought about that and remembered a guy that had dinosaurs on his "N-scale" (I had a tiny Godzilla on my N-scale layout).   Thinking about size, and being a Godzilla fan I wondered if I could get a scale version of the beast for my train room.   Oops,  the big "G" would be a bit around SEVEN feet tall in "O" so that is kind of out for the moment, maybe just as a backdrop poster.   But I also have "N" scale,..    my tallest building is 12 floors at 11 inches.   So my scale Monsterverse G would  be,..   20-24 inches to be scale.     Oh the compromise,..  I'll keep my eyes open for a proper size monster, and of course another Kaiju so he won't get lonely.   Then again I might have to compromise on the scale of things,m

-Mike in NC,

A most interesting thread, with great replies. My two cents: All technical considerations aside, I think you should follow your gut feeling. My first electric train was a Lionel set when I was around 5. A few years passed, and I had HO trains on the floor. I fell in love with Märklin later on, but not having the room for them, my first layout was Arnold Rapido N.

I put the trains away for many years, until I saw an exhibit at the Elizabeth, NJ public library about Atlas trains (they were based in the next town over, Hillside). That started the passion again, and my biggest layout filled the attic of my house. But then Lionel produced the R27 subway with opening doors.

Against all logic, and despite not having enough room for a decent sized O layout, I nonetheless dismantled all my N. The subway set had touched something deep inside, resurrecting all those memories of riding the subways (which I have been doing my whole life). I'm now building an O layout on 6ft long x 9in wide modules that can be put together in various ways.

Where there's a will, there's a way. If your gut tells you to use your grandpa's trains, even if you're not sure how you're going to pull it off, go for it, have fun doing it, and imagine your grandpa watching you do it with an approving smile. 😊

@woodsyT posted:

... Have any of you thought of scrapping/selling your O-gauge for HO?

I'm trying to decide that myself right now. It's not easy. I have much less space than you ... narrow point-to-point type layouts. I could do so much more with HO.

I have two Atlas CNJ RS-1 engines sitting on the table here ... one O and one HO.  I keep staring at them for a week now. O is so much cooler! Much better sounds, much less fiddly. Easier to work on, detail. Heft. Etc etc etc.

I'm going to sell all my HO stuff. Just need a little nudge.

@bigkid posted:

... Another thought, if you still have some hankering with HO, the realism, large trains, etc, nothing to stop you from belonging to a train club. I have toyed with joining a club that is here in the Northern NJ area, that has a large HO layout whose expansion, well, proceeds at a snail's pace,not surprisingly. What tempts me? The guys hand laying the track, of all things....unfortunately it is relatively far away and when I was commuting 5 days a week made it near impossible..now that it is 3 days a week, might be able to swing it

Garden State Model Railway Club in North Haledon? If so, I've been debating joining myself for a while. I have a decent little fleet of quality CNJ HO stuff. It would be cool to be part of a club like that. I just don't have the time now. Maybe when I retire, whenever that is.

And, of course ...  just a ways south of them is NJ Hi-Railer's O scale club in Patterson.

So many trains ... so little time.