Any other suggestions

Needs access holes in the interior.  Depending on whether or not any of the sides will be against a wall, there may be other reach issues.

@Mallard4468 posted:

Needs access holes in the interior.  Depending on whether or not any of the sides will be against a wall, there may be other reach issues.

I can walk around the whole board so no issues with reach

It would be helpful if you posted what you wanted to do with the layout and how you wanted to operate.

First - the inner loop to outer loop switches on the left side create unnecessary curves in the inner loop which could end up creating operating problems. Flip the switches so the inner loop is also straight, so that engines need to navigate the curves only when changing track.

Second - I do not see a reason to have the inner to outer loop switches on the center right of the layout. I would take them out and use them somewhere else or save a few dollars.

Third - I never have enough yard or staging space. Depending on how much rolling stock you have you may want to find additional track space. Since you can walk around the layout can you grab space for a siding or two along the left side?

Fourth - make sure you follow the recommendations for wiring your layout. This will usually mean having isolated track blocks at various points.

Five - do not be too picky on the layout. I redid mine several times over a couple of years as I found out what I liked and what I wanted to change.

Have fun with the build - its your railroad.

@ScoutingDad posted:

It would be helpful if you posted what you wanted to do with the layout and how you wanted to operate.

First - the inner loop to outer loop switches on the left side create unnecessary curves in the inner loop which could end up creating operating problems. Flip the switches so the inner loop is also straight, so that engines need to navigate the curves only when changing track.

Second - I do not see a reason to have the inner to outer loop switches on the center right of the layout. I would take them out and use them somewhere else or save a few dollars.

Third - I never have enough yard or staging space. Depending on how much rolling stock you have you may want to find additional track space. Since you can walk around the layout can you grab space for a siding or two along the left side?

Fourth - make sure you follow the recommendations for wiring your layout. This will usually mean having isolated track blocks at various points.

Five - do not be too picky on the layout. I redid mine several times over a couple of years as I found out what I liked and what I wanted to change.

Have fun with the build - its your railroad.

I would just like to run several trains at a time and be able to reverse loops for trains to switch directions. I also want to add a 2nd level eventually since I have a large MTH bridge I want to incorporate and deciding if to incline or just have a separate  track line. Would you be able to mark which switches need a change and where too ? I have been working with RR-Track and still figuring it all out. Thanks for your help

It might help if you posted your RR-Track file along with your copy of the layout that everyone can view (as above). There are some very good layout drawing folks here, some of which use RR-Track and could (might even) make some suggested changes to the file for you.

A few suggestions:

Your reversing loop only reverses one way - there is no way to reverse again.

Secondly, see if you can come up with a route that dynamically changes via switches and their anti-derail feature. The simplest form of this is a dog bone. This dog bone shape can be twisted, bent, and skewed within a layout. You can see this within the inner loop(s) of this design of mine:

Here I have highlighted the dog bone that adds dynamic routing:

You can get even more creative with the paths by linking switches so they throw together.

If it were me; since you can walk around the entire layout I would not use a L-shaped design but would put a 4x4 hole in the middle of your 12x12 grid and do an around the room type of design.  This way you can get a full loop of O72 track and be able to run any engine on it.    You could only turn engines rated for O54 on the wye but you get far more operational and scenic possibilities.  The leg of the wye over the gap can be on your bridge as well.

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

If it were me; since you can walk around the entire layout I would not use a L-shaped design but would put a 4x4 hole in the middle of your 12x12 grid and do an around the room type of design.  This way you can get a full loop of O72 track and be able to run any engine on it.    You could only turn engines rated for O54 on the wye but you get far more operational and scenic possibilities.  The leg of the wye over the gap can be on your bridge as well.

-Greg

Sorry I should have explained that the "L" shaped is only what I can do. The layout space is exactly what is shown in my plan due to shape of the room and access to a closet etc. It is 12 x 12 but can only come out to 7' and 4' in the areas shown due to walls and closet. I left a 2' perimeter around the 3 sides and a 1/2 wall is on the fourth side. So the blue print I have showed is what I have to work with. I can overlap he sides a few inches at best.    Thanks though

@bmoran4 posted:

A few suggestions:

Your reversing loop only reverses one way - there is no way to reverse again.

Secondly, see if you can come up with a route that dynamically changes via switches and their anti-derail feature. The simplest form of this is a dog bone. This dog bone shape can be twisted, bent, and skewed within a layout. You can see this within the inner loop(s) of this design of mine:

Here I have highlighted the dog bone that adds dynamic routing:

You can get even more creative with the paths by linking switches so they throw together.

Sorry I did not explain why my plan is an L. I can only do a "L" shaped due to walls and a closet. it is a 12 x 12 x7 x4 work space. I do have about 24" of space around the L and a 1/2 wall against the one side (4x12). I have to work in the shape I have shown that's why is is a "L" I have 12' on 2 sides but can only go out 7' on one side and 4' at top due to 2 walls (closet & water panel). Thanks Though

I was not suggesting that you exactly use the example 9x6 track plan, but take the ideas presented from it, mainly an opposing reversing loop and dynamic routing. It seems you have plenty of space in your L shape to incorporate those. As stated earlier, posting your file would allow for exact suggestions to be drafted into your plans.

@bmoran4 posted:

I was not suggesting that you exactly use the example 9x6 track plan, but take the ideas presented from it, mainly an opposing reversing loop and dynamic routing. It seems you have plenty of space in your L shape to incorporate those. As stated earlier, posting your file would allow for exact suggestions to be drafted into your plans.

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Sorry I should have explained that the "L" shaped is only what I can do. The layout space is exactly what is shown in my plan due to shape of the room and access to a closet etc. It is 12 x 12 but can only come out to 7' and 4' in the areas shown due to walls and closet. I left a 2' perimeter around the 3 sides and a 1/2 wall is on the fourth side. So the blue print I have showed is what I have to work with. I can overlap he sides a few inches at best.    Thanks though

This will seem overly critical and it's intended to be.  If you don't take the time to plan accordingly your layout will be a hack job and you'll soon be wanting to tear it down and restart.

There are numerous design flaws in your layout:

• too close to the edge of the layout - you will have overhang over the edge of the layout on engines and rolling stock.  These are the areas circled in red.
• design issues are in blue.  Left to right:
  • why such a short passing siding?
  • connections to the inner loop should come off of switches which should be placed where marked with a 'x'
  • What's the purpose of the siding on the left side of the layout? Regardless, put the switch where the 'x' is marked to avoid the S-curve
  • the area by the question mark - why all the S-curves and why do you have the sidings connected to the main in two places with no operational purpose?
  • the area on the right side of the layout - you have the curve started with the smaller diameter curve heading into larger diameter curves.  This is backwards - easements should flow larger to smaller.
  • And as already mentioned with only 1 reverse loop it's essentially worthless as once you turn a train you can't turn it back.
  • Little room for scenery and as designed you will not have room for the MTH bridge because the tracks are too close together or too close to the layout edge (I have the Lionel/MTH accessory library for RRTrack).

My advice is to think long and hard about what you want to include in your layout and make a list.  Your available space will dictate what you can and can't have.   Make the hard decisions on what won't work and get rid of it.   That's the hard reality no matter what size space you have available.  Heck, we have those same issues at the club and our layout is 135' x 30'.

Trust me, my first layout was a hack job and was quickly replaced by a second layout.  If this forum existed way back then I'm sure someone would have told me what you're being told now and I'd have thanked them as it would have saved me a lot of time and work which could have been avoided.

-Greg

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Sorry I should have explained that the "L" shaped is only what I can do. The layout space is exactly what is shown in my plan due to shape of the room and access to a closet etc. It is 12 x 12 but can only come out to 7' and 4' in the areas shown due to walls and closet. I left a 2' perimeter around the 3 sides and a 1/2 wall is on the fourth side. So the blue print I have showed is what I have to work with. I can overlap he sides a few inches at best.    Thanks though

You should actually post a drawing of the actual layout space and the keep-out areas, that would help a bunch when people are looking at the plan.

FWIW, I concur with Greg, you want to to your planning in advance, it's much harder to fix things after you've laid all the track.  It really doesn't matter how many times you've done this, there's always something to learn doing the "next" layout.

Ok here is my RR-Track file on what I am doing.  I am new to this program and trying to learn it since someone had given it to me. Hope it helps

I think the floor plan was originally posted under a different topic started by the same OP entitled "New Layout Design Idea".

Not sure why there are multiple topics posted for the same question/issue.

Yes I posted it a few times but got no responses so I re posted not realizing it would continue under multi times  sorry. I have posted the RR-Track file I am working on. I am new to it and learning as I go.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

  It really doesn't matter how many times you've done this, there's always something to learn doing the "next" layout.

Absolutely!  Heck, you set me straight recently regarding bus vs star wiring!   I can't even begin to list all the lessons learned from the fine folks of this forum!

-Greg

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Ok here is my RR-Track file on what I am doing.  I am new to this program and trying to learn it since someone had given it to me. Hope it helps

Since I don't have RR-Track installed, it's no help to me.  How about posting a graphic from the program?  FWIW, I gave up on RR-Track, too cryptic, so I use Anyrail.

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Ok here is my RR-Track file on what I am doing.  I am new to this program and trying to learn it since someone had given it to me. Hope it helps

Is the pole placement accurate and how wide are they?

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

Is the pole placement accurate and how wide are they?

-Greg

Heres a picture of size and poles. One pole is boxed I showed measurements.

Poles are not necessarily a blocking element.

A bit of frustration here.   Folks are willing to help but you need to be as specific as possible.  The layout you provided in your original post won't work with those poles being located where they are.

-Greg

Here's the RR Track shell with the layout dimensions and poles included.

-Greg

How then can I work this ?  I Thought this plan would be the best for the area. I do have space around the poles there is no wall blocking them.  On the right side of the boxed in pole is a 1/2 wall which goes from the 4' section out to the pole (12'). The space on my plan is what I have to work with but I can go over a few inches on the sides. I need to walk around the table about 24" on three sides before a wall is in the way. Again I couldn't figure the poles in because I didn't know the works of the program and how to do it.  What can I do in the space provided ?  I just thought an "L" shape would work best. I want to run multi trains and have sidings for trains. I would like trains in different directions passing each other. I have several buildings to incorporate also. So if I need to start from scratch that's ok, it's all learning for me.  Thanks

@Greg Houser posted:

This will seem overly critical and it's intended to be.  If you don't take the time to plan accordingly your layout will be a hack job and you'll soon be wanting to tear it down and restart.

There are numerous design flaws in your layout:

• too close to the edge of the layout - you will have overhang over the edge of the layout on engines and rolling stock.  These are the areas circled in red.
• design issues are in blue.  Left to right:
  • why such a short passing siding?
  • connections to the inner loop should come off of switches which should be placed where marked with a 'x'
  • What's the purpose of the siding on the left side of the layout? Regardless, put the switch where the 'x' is marked to avoid the S-curve
  • the area by the question mark - why all the S-curves and why do you have the sidings connected to the main in two places with no operational purpose?
  • the area on the right side of the layout - you have the curve started with the smaller diameter curve heading into larger diameter curves.  This is backwards - easements should flow larger to smaller.
  • And as already mentioned with only 1 reverse loop it's essentially worthless as once you turn a train you can't turn it back.
  • Little room for scenery and as designed you will not have room for the MTH bridge because the tracks are too close together or too close to the layout edge (I have the Lionel/MTH accessory library for RRTrack).

My advice is to think long and hard about what you want to include in your layout and make a list.  Your available space will dictate what you can and can't have.   Make the hard decisions on what won't work and get rid of it.   That's the hard reality no matter what size space you have available.  Heck, we have those same issues at the club and our layout is 135' x 30'.

Trust me, my first layout was a hack job and was quickly replaced by a second layout.  If this forum existed way back then I'm sure someone would have told me what you're being told now and I'd have thanked them as it would have saved me a lot of time and work which could have been avoided.

-Greg

Thanks for the help. I guess it's all messed up, I don't know the "rules" of flow from larger to smaller and that's most of my trouble in this design. I can adjust the entire layout to move a few inches either way except the right side red area where there is a wall. The sidings idea were to park extra trains. I just want to run multi trains in different directions at once but I guess my figuring is all backwards. The outer track is my foot plan area to what the size needs to be, the inside can be anything really. I just don't know how to figure design aspects.  

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Thanks for the help. I guess it's all messed up, I don't know the "rules" of flow from larger to smaller and that's most of my trouble in this design. I can adjust the entire layout to move a few inches either way except the right side red area where there is a wall. The sidings idea were to park extra trains. I just want to run multi trains in different directions at once but I guess my figuring is all backwards. The outer track is my foot plan area to what the size needs to be, the inside can be anything really. I just don't know how to figure design aspects.  

Well, that's why you post here and discuss the plan and the suggested alterations until a workable plan emerges.  It'll be a whole lot less painful to talk about it now than rip it out later!  I believe a few people are trying to help you with the design aspects.

First step is knowing what size the canvas is for the artwork.   That 's why the emphasis is on the overall area you have to build in.  An important aspect is to see what obstructions to building exist that are causing the limitations.  Sometimes there are some fairly innovative solutions that can be implemented to get around some of the limitations.  In any case, flying blind makes it pretty hard to suggest realistic solutions.  Some pictures of the area would help us understand what you're considering limitations as well.

You'll have to trust that planning now will yield big dividends in the future!  Don't rush into building before the planning stage has had time to develop a workable plan!

Open up the layout shell I attached and save it in your version of RR Track and start designing.     If you feel you have space to go around the poles or off the layout edges then go ahead and do so.   The easiest way to determine footprints for buildings is to insert a basic shape.   Go to:  Objects, then Basic Shapes, then Filled Rectangle:

You will get a "new" prompt:

Hold down the left mouse button and you can draw the object by dragging your mouse.  Don't worry if it doesn't fit exactly as you can edit it:

To edit it:  select the object by clicking on it with your left mouse button and then select 'Properties':

From there you can edit the dimensions, etc.  To change the size just alter the x and y axis, then select close:

You can also rotate track and objects by clicking on them with your right mouse button and selecting 'rotate':

A scroll bar to rotate will appear:

I've attached a word doc with footprints for most Lionel accessories.  I don't have one for MTH accessories but assuming the bridge you have is the single track girder bridge the measurements are 30" long by 5" wide.

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

Open up the layout shell I attached and save it in your version of RR Track and start designing.     If you feel you have space to go around the poles or off the layout edges then go ahead and do so.   The easiest way to determine footprints for buildings is to insert a basic shape.   Go to:  Objects, then Basic Shapes, then Filled Rectangle:

You will get a "new" prompt:

Hold down the left mouse button and you can draw the object by dragging your mouse.  Don't worry if it doesn't fit exactly as you can edit it:

To edit it:  select the object by clicking on it with your left mouse button and then select 'Properties':

From there you can edit the dimensions, etc.  To change the size just alter the x and y axis, then select close:

You can also rotate track and objects by clicking on them with your right mouse button and selecting 'rotate':

A scroll bar to rotate will appear:

I've attached a word doc with footprints for most Lionel accessories.  I don't have one for MTH accessories but assuming the bridge you have is the single track girder bridge the measurements are 30" long by 5" wide.

-Greg

Ok Thank You ! I will try it out

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Ok Thank You ! I will try it out

Thanks Greg, I have been working on this a bit and  went over the grid edge with track on the pole sides which is ok, but I can't see the track over the grid line, is there a way to extend the grid size without starting over again ?  Sorry to bother you. Also where would be a good place to put the reverse loops ? and sidings ? I would like sidings for staging rolling stock and have train engines able to hook up with cars and continue to track. any thoughts ?  Thanks so much for your help I attached file

I resized the layout (Options/Re-size) and got rid of the S-Curve on the bottom left.   I don't have time to do more but your tracks are too close along the top and the right.  Ideally you should have 5.5" spacing center rail to center rail especially on curves otherwise passing trains will collide.

-Greg

@Greg Houser posted:

I resized the layout (Options/Re-size) and got rid of the S-Curve on the bottom left.   I don't have time to do more but your tracks are too close along the top and the right.  Ideally you should have 5.5" spacing center rail to center rail especially on curves otherwise passing trains will collide.

-Greg

Ok Thank You !

@Not seasoned yet posted:

Ok Thank You !

I realigned the top and side tracks. What placement for reverse loops would be best area.  On turnouts do I need to use same size turnout as track 045 to go to 036 track ? I was thinking maybe to add another track maybe cross X middle for reverse loops ?   Thanks for your help.

Anyone ?