Bench work lumber question

i'd go with cheap

i dont know if there is, im building my new/permanent layout table and taking the same route. all im doing is making sure everything is screwed glued and secure!

We used 2x4's because they cost half as much as 1x4's. Did spend more $$ on better plywood though because the cheap plywood don't stay flat. We have climbed all over the layout and it won't move an inch. It does leave a mark when you walk into it or hit your head on the benchwork. 

I went with 2x4 for the legs and 1x4 for everything else.  I used 9/16ths sheathing for the table top(plywood with one side finished the other rough) with 1/2" homasote.  You can dance on my table and I weigh in over 300lbs.

Paul Edgar

i went to the lumber yard and found the best 1/2" plywood out of the stack i could get. i didnt get "furniture" grade. once my table is built and this is screwed down like was said before i'll be able to dance on it!

The dimensional lumber that is available around here is not very good. Its hard to find pieces that are not warped or twisted.
Long ago I decided that I would frame my next layout with 3/4 inch plywood ripped into six inch wide pieces (5-7/8).

Everything except the legs would be glued and screwed.

How does that sound?

2 x 4's and 3/4" Plywood, I'd look at Patrick H's and Ingeniro No1's layouts and posts, they have excellent benchwork and ideas, I used a lot of their ideas while building my last layout and plan to do the same on the upcoming one, very solid!

Good quality white fir 2"X 4" with a single surface 1/2 MDO (Medium Density Overlay) exterior grade plywood. 

I used 2x3's as well. I also used a cleat along the wall for mine and prefabricated the panels 3'x8'

My 2 cents, I buy premium 2X4s and 2X6s then plane down to 1 1/4, 1 3/16, 1 1/8 and 1-inch thick base on use.   And also rip to width.  So I use actual 1 X 3 1/4 where most use purchased "milled" 1 X 4 which is actually less then 3/4 X 3 1/2.  This gives me nice true and even dimensioned lumber.  I fashion legs from true 1 X 4 and 1 X 6 assembled into a L shape which are tapered.  Also use BC grade 3/8-inch Ply for triangular gussets.  My table is built into sections (modular) for "portability."  In fact my sections are still lying around upstairs since last move. 

What's the largest spacing between legs that you'd go with on a round the room layout like this?

2X4 framing

1/2" FIR underlayment

1/2" homasote

If you are using 1x4, get the finger jointed primed pine, not regular #2 pine with knots.  I've built layouts in my garage and had to transport them to the job.  Hence weight and maneuverability of the sections was a factor so I used the 1X4 FJP.  Framing grade 2X4s are cheaper than supposedly finish grade #2 pine.  So if you can find some nice kiln dried 2X4s for a home layout, go for it.   I hope you build it.  Have fun.  

I agree with this. The money needs to go into the surface. Your house is made of 2x4s... surely they can hold a 25 lb locomotive. I also doubt 2x3 vs 2x4 matters, pick whichever pile has fewer knots and warped boards.

2x3 or 2x4 sides depends on how far apart the legs are.  I use 2x3 legs if I can find good ones otherwise 2x4. I know some folks who use two 1x4 pieces to make a leg.  I believe Lionel did this with some of their factory layouts.  1/2" B/C plywood tops are a lot lighter and easier to transport and install than 3/4"  I have never had a problem in 60 years of building layouts.  If I do 4' x8' tables I generally add a leg right in the center.

A lot depends on the "I want ot stand on it" part.  If that's you (and many mention that), then heavier wood is better for strength.

Obviously if you're building a large layout and standing on it is unavoidable to get to some areas once it's done, then that's a factor you should heavily consider.

The height of the layout can alter your decision as well.  Something quite stable at a small height may not be so much when it's taller.

I learned from my dad using 2x3 legs and 1x4 sides to make 4'x8' tables to support a piece of plywood.  We went with 3 feet for the table height.  Used 6 legs and and two additional 1x4s underneath(one on each side of the middle legs if I recall, though maybe we used just one there) to break the table roughly into 2 4'x4' squares.  I would never try to stand on this though.

More recently, I went a little up in the lumber used for the sides and tried out 1 1/4 x 4, I forget the technical name for the grade, but it's in the better finished section of the home store, not the racks of knotted hockey sticks (i.e., curved) section.  I used these to make my modular tables I had in my apartment and moved to my house.  These tables are only 2 feet wide each, anywhere from 4 feet to 7 feet long.  I raised the height a little to 42 inches.  I wouldn't stand on these either, but basically that's still because of the 2x 3 legs and the height.

-Dave

2x4s and 3/4 inch sanded one side plywood topped with homosote.  Your basic farmer construction technique.  Overbuild and overbrace.

Are there any Builders Surplus Stores near you?  I found the best deal at one close to home.  I found 2 1/2 X 3/4 plywood strips that were 16' long.  I built the bench work L-girder style with yellow glue and screws.  I also found 3/4 t&g plywood there cheaper then the cheapest OSB at the big box stores.

If you buy cheaper green lumber, stack it with spacers and dry it thoroughly before using it, then pick out the straightest pieces to use for the main framing. It's a bummer to build and have the wood warp later. Kiln dried lumber will have fewer problems with warping.

Paul!  You definitely have to demonstrate your dance routine at our next NCHR meeting!  I know you're a musician but never knew you could dance too!  Do you and Liz do a duet around the mountain on the layout??!!

Anyway, I used 2X3 lumber for framing and 2X4's for legs that I positioned about 12" from the frame's edge so that they wouldn't be kicked by people walking around the layout.  Against the wall the framing is attached to the wall studs.  I also used 3/4" plywood for the top.

"Over-building" is fine for a "permanent" layout, but if you want the layout or layout portions to be potentially movable, don't build it any heavier than necessary.

traindiesel (Brian)

What's the blue material between your framing and the plywood?

JHZ

It's underlayment for hardwood floors I got from Lowe's.  I cut it into strips and glued it to the framing.  It's a bit of overkill but the trains run whisper quiet with that, 2" styrofoam over the plywood and carpeting on the floor.

Thanks Brian - and good idea!  You learn something new on this forum every day!

How do you keep the sections of plywood together?  (Do they float on the underlaymate or you have to screw them down to prevent warping over time?)

Also is the foam board glued to the plywood or just layed on top?

After the underlayment and foam board do you still use a road bed under your track?

How do you attach the track to the foam board? - the only layout I've built in the past had foam roadbed on plywood and I still used screws to keep the track in place. 

Sorry about the twenty questions routine but I'd like to replicate your technique.  I'm hoping to get started this winter on my permanent home layout and I'm soaking up ideas like at thirsty sponge!

JZ

No need to be sorry JZ.  Here's what I do.

I screw down the plywood in each of the four corners, one screw on each side half the length from each end and one or two at the center of the sheet.  At that point if there is any warping I'll add a screw to that spot.

The styrofoam is fastened to the plywood with tubes of Liquid Nails for Projects with a calking gun.  You could also use wood glue if you like.

I use Woodland Scenics Foam Roadbed under the track.  I attach the foam roadbed and the track with two-sided carpet tape.  It really holds well and it's easy to pull it up to make changes.  Just make sure the surface is clean.  I've had the carpet tape in place for 10 years now without a track problem.  I'm going to try the tape to attach track ballast on the side profile of the tracks.  This method was suggested to me by the late Kirk Mitchell of JusTrains in Delaware.  He also suggested, for using Atlas O track, to attach the feeder wires into the rail joiners and then join the track together, locking the wire against the rail.  I tried it using 16 Ga. wire.  It was a bit tedious at first, but once I got the hang of it I was really surprised at how sturdy and tight the connection is.

At the apex of the curves I'll use one screw to stabilize the track placement.

Here's some early construction pictures of a cross section view of the benchwork.  The framing, underlayment, plywood, foam and roadbed. 

 Here is the track with the two-sided carpet tape under the tracks.  You can see it sandwiched between the track and roadbed in the lower right of the picture.  It's also holding the roadbed.  The track doesn't move anywhere and the trains are quiet.

On the upper levels I used 1/2" styrofoam on top of 1/2" plywood.

Dance the dance that makes it work.  Just build it.  And run get trains running asap.  Then your having fun. It's all good from there.

Hi all,

Thanks for all of the tips. I decided to go with 2x4 stock, it looked better then the 2x3 at the lumber yard. Here are a couple pictures from yesterday which was day one of construction. Today I hope to have the legs braced and the plywood down.

For some reason my pictures are not coming up right side up even though they are on my desktop, sorry

Thanks,
Sam

2x4 legs and framing, 1x4 grid, 1/2" plywood plus 1/2" foam or fiber board.

In his original post, he was asking about a permanent layout, not a portable or moveable layout.

 "Overbuild and overbrace".

I especially agree with the second directive above.

45 degree bracing from the legs to the table top in at least two directions if not three will immensely add to the layouts' strength and eliminate a heavy layouts tendency to collapse.

And a quick update from yesterday, the plywood is down, next will be the leg braces, sound deadened material, carpet and hopefully track