Cost / Square Foot for Professional Layout Construction

Check this prior post here.

$250.00-$400.00 a square foot

Very detailed and intricate layout wired and turnkey with trains , using a 20ft X 20 ft layout 1000-2000 hrs $40 per hour for craftsman quality work ,the labor $40,000-$80,000 plus top of the line trains and scenery $20,000 or more if you want custom laser cut one off buildings from photos , I know of one builder who charges $65 per hour , per man so if you have 3 guys working , all on it at the same time  that's $195 an hour  . Considering auto repair shop rates are $85-100 per hr. If you have a shop with a/c all the equipment , the space to house a 400-500 sq ft layout and space for the equipment you need atleast 2000 sq ft , plus insurance , workers comp , electric , water , internet, income taxes  .This is standard overhead that will be required for a real pro operation . Layouts like this have to be made off site of the place , so it needs to be designed to come apart and go back together and fit in the room , go thru doorways around corners and then reassembled . You need auto-cad to do it right . To do it right now in todays market figure $65 per hour .

hard to build anything worth paying for of quality for less than $100,000.00

For a down to earth quote from a true professionional as seen in this months OGR magazine, I would call Al Judy as I have done.  See Sam Penise layout as an example.

Check out this document on Dunham Studio's website.  It pretty much gives you the answer to your question at a very high level.  Clarke and his wife Barbara have posted threads here on OGR's Forum for the past year or two, documenting the various stages of development as recent projects have progressed from the design stage to completion.  VERY impressive and fun to watch it all come together!!!

These layouts are designed to be built in their studio and shipped to the client's location.  Quite amazing when you think about it.

David

I think after reading the post that was mentioned here, I'll stick to my carpet layout! LOL!

I certainly missed the boat forty years ago when I was building layout after layout for myself.  Each one an improvement and learning experience.  I had no idea professional layout builders could get the kind of money mentioned here.  

The average cost to build a home in the $295,000.00 price range is $150.00/SF.  That's for a 2000 square foot home.   You mean to tell me there are guys out there willing to pay up to $400.00/SF for a layout ?  

I could have been sitting on easy street at those prices.   

Dan Padova posted:

...

The average cost to build a home in the $295,000.00 price range is $150.00/SF.  That's for a 2000 square foot home.   You mean to tell me there are guys out there willing to pay up to $400.00/SF for a layout ?  

...

As with all things in life, there is always a vast range of money that can be spent to accomplish something.  Back in 1997, I spent about $20-25K on a modest home theatre as a DIY project in an already finished room on the lower level of our new home.  It had a really nice Sony HD ceiling projector, Stewart front projection cinema screen with curtains, reclining theatre seating and top-flight audio/video equipment.  It was featured in the local newspaper as a DIY home theatre.  Also featured in the same article was a "sky's-the-limit, money-no-object" home theatre for a price tag of $225,000!    It clearly ran circles around mine in terms of "wow-factor", and it was the type of thing you'd typically see in a video clip featuring "homes of the rich and famous".  Without a doubt, it was in a league of its own. 

So what some folks might spend on an entire house, somebody else spent on just their home theatre.  One could only imagine what their whole house cost.    But that's OK.  Definitely makes life interesting. 

David

"Up to $600 per square foot" from Dunham Studios.

Seriously an excellent choice if you want a first-class, turn-key layout.  I've talked to the Dunham people at York several times and what they offer is very reasonably priced for the product.

It's all about choices and allocation of resources.

rthomps posted:

"Up to $600 per square foot" from Dunham Studios.

Seriously an excellent choice if you want a first-class, turn-key layout.  I've talked to the Dunham people at York several times and what they offer is very reasonably priced for the product.

It's all about choices and allocation of resources.

You can say that again RT.. the do impressive work... but if I was to pull the trigger now I would give TW Trains based on their newest hire the nod ..

Its hard to imagine anyone knowing more about how to get the most out of both the trains and the operating system.. of course it helps if you are a Lionel fan. In a situation like mine where I am 99.5% Lionel and use the Legacy system to operate my layout the personal involvement of Mike Reaganin in the planning and execution of your dream has to carry weight.  As far as pricing I believe thay are in the same ballpark so everything else considered Mike tips the scales.

Some folks in the next town over (distant relatives of a famous ex-president) just had 20 trees installed along the sides of their 1200-foot long driveway. Each tree cost $100,000. 100K x 20 = 2 million bucks. Just thought I'd put "disposable" spending into perspective for you.

"It's all relative."

Money and the cost of things today  are not relevant. I have often read about the pro layouts and the design, construction. I can understand if you have the $$ but have a busy life and you have someone to build it, that would be a good choice. Personally I get great satisfaction out of doing my own design and engineering plus the construction. From the articles I have seen in magazines featuring pro built layouts I am not too impressed and wouldn't want one. Norm Charbonneau's layout is my ideal.

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Some folks in the next town over (distant relatives of a famous ex-president) just had 20 trees installed along the sides of their 1200-foot long driveway. Each tree cost $100,000. 100K x 20 = 2 million bucks. Just thought I'd put "disposable" spending into perspective for you.

Those must have been 'Money Trees' 

jim pastorius posted:

... From the articles I have seen in magazines featuring pro built layouts I am not too impressed and wouldn't want one. Norm Charbonneau's layout is my ideal.

Jim, each to his own.  Dunham Studios has been posting progress updates here on the OGR Forum for some of their recent projects for a couple of years now.  If the last layout, Quechee Gorge, which I believe is in the process of being delivered as we speak (or perhaps was delivered last week already) didn't impress you, then I'm not sure what will.    That had to be one of the most "realistic" Dunham Studios O-Gauge 3-rail layouts I've seen.  They've done prior HO layouts that were highly realistic, but I wasn't aware of anything Dunham Studios produced in O-Gauge that approached the realism level of the Quechee Gorge.

Of course, Norm C. is a master modeller, and his layout is also something to strive for in terms of realism and inspiration as well.  But the team of artisans working at Dunham Studios is unmatched, when one considers they design and build the entire layout to be transported and re-assembled if necessary.  How many times have we seen very impressive layouts documented here on the OGR forum by enthusiasts who later decide to demolish the whole project if they need or want to move/relocate???  

Certainly there's tremendous VALUE in having a beautifully crafted layout built with portability in mind should one desire to relocate in their later years.    I never would have thought that way when I was 30.  But now that I'm 58 and having just watched my and my wife's parents reach those golden years that aren't that golden anymore, layout portability would rate high on my list of things to consider.  Exactly "how much" that factors into the total price of a project would likely vary with size and complexity.  But the fact that it CAN be moved if necessary might come in very handy down the road.

David

I didn't follow the Quechee Gorge project but I will take your word for it.  My comment was a general statement about the ones I have seen in magazines. I like Norm's "Less is more" philosophy and a lot of the layouts don't follow that. I built my layout about 3 years ago on a tight retiree's budget and my main object was to watch the old trains run. The layout was simple, reliable and easy to put up. My design has met my every expectation and in about 3 weeks it comes down-like I knew it would. Not sure if I will get a chance to build another. I might have to settle for a carpet layout BUT I am keeping my  trains !!

RD posted:

rthomps posted:

"Up to $600 per square foot" from Dunham Studios.

Seriously an excellent choice if you want a first-class, turn-key layout.  I've talked to the Dunham people at York several times and what they offer is very reasonably priced for the product.

It's all about choices and allocation of resources.

You can say that again RT.. the do impressive work... but if I was to pull the trigger now I would give TW Trains based on their newest hire the nod ..

Its hard to imagine anyone knowing more about how to get the most out of both the trains and the operating system.. of course it helps if you are a Lionel fan. In a situation like mine where I am 99.5% Lionel and use the Legacy system to operate my layout the personal involvement of Mike Reaganin in the planning and execution of your dream has to carry weight.  As far as pricing I believe thay are in the same ballpark so everything else considered Mike tips the scales.

 

RD ... ABSOLUTELY!  I would certainly look at TW for layout construction.

Their stock is rising - and fast.  :-)

When I lived in California I had a layout building business.  One of the most expensive layouts was where the customer just said do it.  His home was on the waterfront and at the end of the dock was 110 footer.  Obviously cost not even discussed,  The most enjoyable builds were where the client became a partner in the build.  In fact my reputation was built on the fact that 'they'  could say 'they'  helped built the layout.  Current count is now 98 layouts (I have been doing it for awhile).  Current is a joint layout for a good buddy and me, 20x40 ON30 layout and we are having a ball. 

Back to the questions asked, if the client really had no exact idea what they wanted I would ask for a small retainer to put together a plan.  When the plan was finalized WE  would set down and work out the costs.  Everything would be itemized and a projected man hours timetable would be worked out.  I only had a couple where I had to eat a little because I underestimated the time which was my bad not the clients.

Latest add on for our  layout is actually for the layout room, its a fridge with a tapper!  See model railroading really is FUN! 

I no longer build for clients but with my retirement shop it would certainly be a lot easier than the way we used to build them.  I have a laser, a 3d printer, a vinyl cutter, and a 48x96 CNC router all located in my 40x50 dream come true retirement shop!  Russ

All things being equal, I suspect regional geography might come into play for some enthusiasts when choosing a professional layout builder, since shipping the final project around the country could be quite expensive (on top of the layout's construction price)... considering trucking/freight/etc..., as well as travel/lodging/meal expenses for a team of folks doing the installation.  Not to mention access to the studio for project visits is likely to be easier if you're just a relatively short drive away vs. cross country -- although digital photography, social media and the internet in general have made this less of an issue nowadays when tracking the project on an ongoing basis.  Nonetheless, I suspect nothing beats an in-person visit to see things up-close-and-personal.

Just sayin.... I wouldn't be at all surprised if the bulk of residential clients for Dunham Studios resides in the mid-Atlantic to Northeast/NewEngland States, whereas most of Trainworx residential clients are in the Southwestern/Southern States.  Of course, all bets are off for commercial work, as those deep pockets often have a more tangible ROI.  Just a hunch!    Either way (residential or commercial), it's a strong "relationship" sales model accompanied by a long sell-cycle.  I doubt too many -- if any -- of these projects happen on a whim or over one dinner, if you know what I mean.  Price is a big factor for sure, but perhaps even more important is the comfort factor with your contractor that's gotta be there when writing big checks. 

David 

ChiloquinRuss posted:

When I lived in California I had a layout building business.  One of the most expensive layouts was where the customer just said do it.  His home was on the waterfront and at the end of the dock was 110 footer.  Obviously cost not even discussed,  The most enjoyable builds were where the client became a partner in the build.  In fact my reputation was built on the fact that 'they'  could say 'they'  helped built the layout.  Current count is now 98 layouts (I have been doing it for awhile).  Current is a joint layout for a good buddy and me, 20x40 ON30 layout and we are having a ball. 

Back to the questions asked, if the client really had no exact idea what they wanted I would ask for a small retainer to put together a plan.  When the plan was finalized WE  would set down and work out the costs.  Everything would be itemized and a projected man hours timetable would be worked out.  I only had a couple where I had to eat a little because I underestimated the time which was my bad not the clients.

Latest add on for our  layout is actually for the layout room, its a fridge with a tapper!  See model railroading really is FUN! 

I no longer build for clients but with my retirement shop it would certainly be a lot easier than the way we used to build them.  I have a laser, a 3d printer, a vinyl cutter, and a 48x96 CNC router all located in my 40x50 dream come true retirement shop!  Russ

Man Sounds Great! Can I ask, what do you do with the cnc machine? (What do you use it for)

I had a layout built by a high end custom builder. I have had it now for 6 months. For me it was the right decision and every time I go into the layout room and turn on the layout I am happy I commissioned it.

A couple of points. The price is highly dependent on how much is hand built vs commercially purchased and on the density of the structures and detailing. The location of the builder is irrelevant for cost. Pick the builder you prefer. All the shipping cost is in the disassembly, packing, loading, unloading, unpacking, assembly, testing and training. An extra 3 days on the truck to go coast to coast is rounding error in the total cost. Make sure the layout is perfect before it is disassembled for shipping. Accessibility or lack thereof of the layout room can have a large impact on the cost. Make sure the track plan is exactly what you want prior to construction start. Give the layout builder as many engines and cars as you possibly can; it is surprising what can turn up in the testing. Be sure to listen closely to the layout builder and really understand what they are saying. These guys are very experienced. Each layout builder has a different style and experience base. The layout details you want can be a determinant of which builder is ideal for your project.

If anyone is considering commissioning a layout I would be pleased to share my experiences as well as host a visit. I will also be at the Pittsburgh TCA convention. My email is tltoell@yahoo.com. 

And that cost is exactly and specifically why family, friends and associates encouraged me to write an affordable "how to" design book so the "average Joe" like me, would have access to the information.  I'm like many of you, if I had that kind of money I'd buy another house, with a boat dock and boat!

Roundhouserails, please check out a very dated web link that shows a little of what I do with CNC.  Russ

Hobby-Tronics

ChiloquinRuss posted:

Roundhouserails, please check out a very dated web link that shows a little of what I do with CNC.  Russ

Hobby-Tronics

Will Do