Price to have an O-Gauge Hi-Rail Layout built professionally?

I think part of the cost of a pro built layout is the planning and that is somehow rolled into the cost.  So just getting someone to build it may cost less.

Anyway the big services all want to start with the plan.  Trainworx is outstanding as are the Hikel layouts.  I'd look around on the various sites and simply call and ask.  You will probably find that there is a pretty big price range.

I imagine only the professional layout builders here (who would need far more information) or those who have actually had such a layout built for them, could answer that question.  And my guess is neither would be willing to provide that information on a public forum.

"But approximately what would be the cost range per square foot for a well built layout with a couple of main tracks, some independent ‘loops’, yards with proper leads, sidings, spurs, grades, buildings, lighting, etc.?"

Ballpark it at $350 per square foot.   

I thought about insuring my layout a few years ago so that if the house was destroyed, I could have the layout professionally rebuilt.  I had a professional builder come for a visit.  He took photos and a lot of notes, then consulted with 2 other builders before giving me a quote.  Since it exceeded the value of my house, insurance like I wanted would have been VERY expensive.

I suppose it's kind of like buying a yacht:  If you have to ask, you probably can't afford it.

Seriously, though, there are so many variables involved that the only real way to find out is to come up with all the specifics and then get a quote from one or more (preferably the latter) of the pro builders.

Priced between $250 to $375 per sq ft. Could even run more depending what you want. It is not inexpensive but for those that can afford it it may be worth it if your short on time or just can't do it. 

Hey Alex....

I will sell you mine for $250.00 per square foot....and that includes me taking it down and setting it back up!!!.....AH....Hawaii here I come...OH DON!!!  find me a place near by!!!

Alan

Turning a hobby into a business usually ends up with someone losing interest in the hobby as a hobby. It becomes work sooner or later. Something to think about.

Jumijo,

You bought up an excellent point.  Thanks for sharing.   Killian

VETERANS HOME - NORTHERN CALIFORNIA

POW/MIA YOU ARE NOT FORGOTTEN

Makes me think of the ARTHUR movies...and THE TOY...perhaps the cost is your SELF ESTEEM.  Betcha it's less fun playing with something YOU didn't build...kind of like being able to buy one of everything in each catalog only to dispose of it after you tire of it.  I can see myself contracting ONLY if I were physically disabled.  Everyone has time...just varying amounts thereof.  Just my thoughts on a hot night North of Baltimore!!!  Ron B.

I believe the layout that OGR covered as it was designed and built awhile ago was $35,000..... Maybe you could get that back issue or the electronic version and look for it..... it was a really good article.....

I would approach a local railroad club to have a layout built as a club project. Financially it might be of benefit to the buyer and seller. Moreover, you get the benefit of getting a layout from folks with hands-on operating and maintenance experience, so I think the layout will be better operating.

Some of these pro-built layouts show up in the hobby magazines, so somebody is

springing for these...but when you get to $100K, (and probably less), I can think about doing a professional restoration of a 12 cylinder Packard or Pierce Arrow classic car, and I know you can buy one already done for less (and while any investment hinges on the state of the economy, and caprice of demand, I'm sure you are much more likely to get your money back from the car)  Of course, as a hobby, you can't

consider the investing angle too seriously, or, as noted above, it is no longer a hobby.

The most unappealing, to me, aspect of building a layout is the benchwork and the

wiring...including problems of material to use, sound control of trains on track, etc.,

and I have considered the prefabridated benchwork from two advertisers, including one that is now setting up in the Orange Hall.  It has LOOKED to me to be

better suited for the smaller scales, HO and down....and not a sturdy enough platform

for double headed O gauge Triplexes, or whatever?  Am I gonna want to stand on it

to change overhead bulbs, etc.?

Largest standard sizes shown in lit. seemed expensive, and small for O.

Anybody using these and happy with their investment? 

What I would like to see published is an article, probably in several installments,

of somebody going out today to Lowe's or Home Depot, buying useable lumber,

hammering/screwing it together with common hand tools such as an electric drill

(no planer, table saw,  or other expensive power equipt. needed), to include a list of materials, with prices, they bought at that store, why they bought them, and how they put them together, with no exotic or specialty items or equipment required.

Before doing that, I want to put up the background, if, as usual, the layout abuts

a wall.  I see articles saying "my sister is an art major and she painted a 20 foot

mural down one side of my basement wall".  I am fresh out of art majors, (or skills) so who produces reasonable and LARGE (some I have looked at/seen advertised seem N

gauge, including a couple I am now using). Anybody make any that would be

continuous for a long wall in this larger scale, hopefully in a Rocky Mountain scene?

That's how Model Railroader built their HO Virginian project railroad last year, although I think they used a miter saw to cut the lumber to length.

The trouble with publishing prices for lumber and supplies is, prices change and can vary by region Home Depot's prices may be different then Menard's or Lowe's and not all of the big box hardware stores carry the same selection. 

The really old project railroads in MR form the 60's published prices for the raw materials and trains, none of which would be valid today.

Rusty

I was in one fellas house whose whole basement was excavated and built out.    Size is about 1600 square feet and he has spent over a million....

A bit over the top, but redacting engineering and buildout he still have $500K + into it...

I've seen a whole bunch of layouts over the years and amount of money spent doesn't always add up to quality. I've always felt that building the layout was the most fun myself.

I went back and looked at my reciepts where I could find them (I keep a big cardboard box for them) and expenses over the years, and I did a bit of analysis.  

I came to a conclusion that materials cost about $100/square foot and an entire layout about $350 sq ft if you count labor.  I never really tracked my expenses, and am not surprised at the money I have spent over time - I expected it to be more, actually -- I know two people who have spent at least five times what I have (but I doubt they have had five times as much fun!!!). 

I have a layout with 335 sq feet of benchtop, about 350 feet of Fastrack mainline with 20 switches, 200 feet of Superstreets, six AC transformers and 2 DC power supplies, etc.) 

- basic benchwork (lumber, nails and screws,paint, etc.)                         $2,000

- glue and adhesives                                                                            $1,500

- finishing layout structure (support for track levels, etc.                   . . . $1,000

- other stuff (skirts, surge protectors, wire looms, fire extinguishers, etc)   $500

                                                                        Total for the benchwork $5,000

- track and Superstreets, swtiches, controls, wiring                                $7,000

- various ancillary stuff (wire looms and connectors, tape, screws etc.)    $1,500

- Z4000 plus five CW80s plus two DC power supplies (Superstreets)        $1,500

                                                                        Total for track & elec    $10,000

- scenery materials (folige, water, rocks, molds, paint, other material)     $3,000

- trees: estimated 300 @ $10                                                                $3,000

- buildings, scenery detail, and accessories (already mounted)                $3,500

- buildings, etc., not yet mounted                                                          $1,500

-scratchbuilding supplies and such                                                         $2,000

- model cars and trucks on the layout or on display (about 170)              $5,000

                                                                                                          $18,000

Total for layout                                $33,000 ($98.5/sq ft materials)

Estimated time to build above 2400 hours @ $35/hour

--would be $84,000 ==> $117,000 total for layout, or $349/sq. ft.

-Recent locos: 27 BEEPS, 8 other RMT, 6 WBB, 11 MTH, 29 Lionel, 4 other $40,000

-4 Prewar, 6 postwar, 9 MPC up through '93, Lionel, Kusan, Marx, other    $4,500

-Rolling stock - 26 passenger cars, 47 assorted other, 9 cabooses            $8,500

-Superstreets vehicles  - total 97 including inventory for future bashing    $6,500

-Other (track inspection cars, operating accessories, etc.)                        $2,500

                                                                                                           $62,000

- train-specific tools (test rollers, sound & traction-pull meters, etc. .)      $1,500

- spare track, transformers, etc., on hand                                               $1,000

Other spare parts (motors, pickups, sound boards)                                  $1,000

                                                                                                            $3,500

                                                                                                            $7,000

The trains themselves seem to have cost about twice what the layout did . . . 

Alex,  these numbers change from time to time.  However, I seem to recall a couple of articles over the years -- perhaps in OGR as well as other publications -- where Clarke Dunham, a seasoned and well-established layout builder based in upstate NY, quoted a range depending upon the detail level included in the layout.

If my memory serves me correctly, I seem to recall $250-$300/sqft at the "lower end" (but still very nicely equipped), while a museum quality layout could hit the $650-$700/sqft level.

Again, this was a few years ago... but I think I'm pretty close on the price range. You might also want to check and see if there's any pricing guidelines out there from the Trainworx folks who are now producing some absolutely FABULOUS stuff.  Dorcie posts here from time to time.

Hope that helps. 

David

P.S.  Even at the most basic levels, I suspect part of the expense that goes into these professionally built layouts is the fact that they are DESIGNED to be portable, since they're largely built offsite and transported to the customer's destination via trucking.  Clarke's background was rooted in NYC Theatre, so building sets with 2x6 lumber that needed to be moved around quickly in broadway production was a natural technique that carried over nicely into building "portable" model railroads that could withstand the rigors of truck transportation -- not to mention the modularization of the wiring and electronics by section as well.  Quite amazing when you stop and think about it!!!

Hi all,

There really are too many variables to give a definitive figure for price per sq. foot.  The level of scenery detail is probably the single biggest variable.  A "turn key" layout is something most people can't consider, but most people don't want something completely turn key.  It is a hobby after all.  Most want assistance with certain phases of design or construction.  A basic track plan can be had for hundreds.  On site assistance with construction will cost thousands.  If the majority or all construction work is done professionally it's usually tens to hundreds of thousands.

I have a fair bit of experience moving layouts.  If the layout was designed to be moved it's usually more cost effective to move it than to rebuild.  We moved a layout last summer from Park City, UT, to Portland, OR.  It was a large 2-rail O scale layout built by Rail Dreams that had already been moved once when it was delivered from Michigan to Utah.  Moving it wasn't cheap, but it was hundreds of thousands less than a total replacement.

With our crack crew we had the layout packed and the premises cleaned up in four days.

Layouts that were never intended to be moved are a totally different story.  In most cases they aren't worth moving.  The cost to build a layout can be tremendous if you include the value of the man hours that goes into one.  However, the layout is usually built to fit a specific space.  Even if you can find a suitable space to relocate a layout, most require structural reinforcement to survive a move.  Scenery damage is unavoidable.  At a minimum the scenery must be cut to facilitate cutting the layout into sections.  When all is said and done, you have an ill fitting layout that needs a lot of rehab to even run again.  It's best to salvage what you can (switches, buildings, transformers, etc.) and leave the rest behind.

A couple years ago my crew and I took on a special moving project for the Edmonds Historical Museum which was the exception to the rule.  We moved the Pacific Fast Mail corporate display layout from a third floor conference room to the museum.  For those who don't know, PFM was a pioneer in the business of brass locomotive importing.  They usually owned the back cover add of Model Railroader from the late 50's through the early 80's.  For most of PFM's history it was headquartered in a small office building in Edmonds, WA, on the shores of Puget Sound.  The BNSF mainline passes between the building and the waterfront.  PFM's owner, Don Drew, built an HO/HOn3 layout into the wall of the company's conference room in the late 60's.  It was a tour de force of both craftsmanship and technology.

Don passed away a few years ago.  His family needed to re-rent the space in the office building, but they didn't want to see the layout destroyed.  They donated the layout to the Edmonds Historical Museum with the proviso that they were responsible for the move.  It was never intended to be moved, but the quality of the layout and PFM's significance to local history made it worth the effort.  The hardest part was figuring out how to get the layout down from the third floor.  After much consideration we decided to cut the layout into two pieces and mount each of a supporting cradle.

The layout sections were then stable enough to be lowered from the third floor balcony with rope and pulley.  We also added a wood frame and plastic to protect the layout from the elements during transport.

We then loaded the sections on a trailer and drove them to the Museum a few blocks away.

After several days of work reassembling the layout we had it back up and running.  I donated my time to the museum for the project, but the move would have cost a little over $10,000 at our normal labor rates.  That's for a less than 80 sq. ft. layout.  So, moving a layout can cost nearly $200/sq ft. in some cases.

That would be my feeling as well since that is all part of the hobby of model railroading.  

However, it's ALWAYS a case of different strokes for different folks AND different circumstances.  I suppose if I had a whole lot of money overall and very little spare time,  I wouldn't have a problem with having a layout custom built by someone whose work I particularly admired.

I wouldn't have my layout, or the trains for that matter, if I could not build the layout and build out the scenery, etc. -- it's what I enjoy most.   My wife claims the trains are just an excuse for me to work on the layout.  She's right.

But I have seen some wonderful professionally built, private layouts bought by people who just aren't into that at all.  I have visited two locally, both had their layouts professionally built - they love their trains but just like to hang out in their train rooms and run trains.   Having a professional do it was a quick way to get to what they wanted - so more power to them both!

Yup, that's in the neighborhood of what we were quoted for our big but not too complex plan ... so been building it ourselves for 5 years.  Slower but one heck of a lot less expensive!

Just think that's only 2 yrs tuition for prep school.....then comes college.  Been there done that for 2 daughters.

I have been working on my layout for almost twenty years and it's still not done.

My son says it probably wont get done until the day before I die. My wife says the day after I die it goes out the door.

What is all that work worth? In my opinion at lest a million dollars. What would someone be willing to pay for it?

I couldn’t afford to have even the cheapest contractor build my layout, and as some have said, even if I could afford it (win the lottery?) I would do a lot of it myself.

You do remember that my original question was for no other reason than because two people had wanted to know how much I would charge for my layout if I wanted to sell it. Of course, I do not want to sell it, but it was a valid question. Also, I did not design it for having it transported (as Dave H. brought up), and I don’t even know if it were possible other than at too great an expense.

Besides, it is and will be my main after-retirement-occupation, and with all the things I have still planned for it, it will keep me busy for several years.

Funny thing, I mentioned this last statement to a guest we had two weekends ago and he said, “I can’t see what else you could possibly do to it to make it look better.” He was familiar with trains and had done some modeling, but not enough to see all the possibilities.

Anyway, with the inputs from John, David, Dave, Lee, DAvid, et al, someday I’ll put a price tag on it, but for now I'll view it as an intangible asset just for fun.

Thanks for your opinions.

Alex