Crossing Gate Recommendations for Basement Layout 2.0

I don’t have any answers as far as to which gates to use. Visit www.azatrax.com.   I installed a set of crossbucks using there system. It involves using sensors that are embedded into the roadbed. They have good illustrations on how to do it. They seem to work very well. Very detailed instructions using a variety of scenarios as everyone’s layout isn’t the same. If nothing else. There’s a load of info. on their site with multiple tracks and such. May not be what you want. But it might give you some ideas.

I’m just not familiar with different manufactures products. I know a few rely on using Tortoise switch motors to raise and lower the gates. These are super reliable.

Have you looked at Z-Stuff gates?  Can't make a valid recommendation; just a vendor I'm aware of.

Chuck

I am interested in this also for the same reasons. I was wondering about the Walthers Cornerstone/Atlas gates.

"Ideally, I'd like a train coming from either direction on either mainline to (1) trip both gates before reaching the intersection and (2) have the gates rise when the last car on a train is completely through the intersection.  I figured this partially figured out on Layout 1.0, but it only worked in one direction, and I only had it working with one mainline."

Here's a circuit that will do it, using 9 relays and 5 insulated track sections. I designed this 30-something years ago.

It operates reliably and prototypically, regardless of train speed, length or direction. Multiple circuits can be used for parallel tracks.

I will try to get a youngster in the office to scan it to make it readable, and I will repost it, along with the sequence chart and circuit description. For now, I figured that I would post this photo to whet your appetite.

Z-Stuff optical gates require no relays, no insulated track sections, no nothing, a no-brainer!

I'm glad to hear that. But some of us like the fact that we have brains, and the challenge to use them.

The circuit above uses 2 short insulated sections at each end of a 2-directional track and an insulated section right where the highway and track cross.  The outer 2 sections basically create fail-safe "reset" circuits to ensure that any previously set relays in the whole circuit don't stay energized after they are supposed to release.

The next 2 sections, going toward the middle, are the ones that start the crossing signal into operation, from either direction.

The middle insulated section grabs the operated circuit and holds it as the train passes the crossing section, and releases the signal as soon as the last car clears the crossing.

This circuit could easily be built using electronics, but at the time of its invention, relays and wire were available in quantity from a certain telephone company, and a 60-foot long test track was built in a central office frame room. The train that ran on the track (a Santa Fe switcher and a flatcar with a big paper clip)  delivered telephone company paper service orders from one end of the room to the other.

I'd go with the Z-Stuff optical sensors, unless you really get a kick out of wiring!

get them at Ross Custom (see above banner) not Z-Stuff, they're cheaper and more responsive to buyers.

Moving gates are destined to fail eventually, too many moving parts. They cycle dozens of times in an operating session.

I can't speak for z stuff but both MTH as well as Lionel scale gates have failure complaints.

Azatrax D2T-DS gives you two pairs of infra red sensors that can detect over 2 tracks and sense 2 trains in either direction. No relays needed, and for less than the price of just one Lionel ir or MTH iTad.

Following the color coded wiring is easy peasy.

I used the sensors with Mth crossing signals with bell and had trouble free operation for a few years now.

https://youtu.be/AkNzRzqRH8Y

The Zeroth Law of thermodynamics says that failure is inevitable, perpetual motion is unachievable.

that said all moving gates operate with electromagnets pulling and releasing rotatable arms. Some like Lionel, MTH and Z-stuff contain the electromagnets within the gate housing; others use a rod attached to the electromagnet and the gate arm and pull from underneath the table.

Either method has its own issues. However, the housings for the ones that pull from underneath can be a lot smaller.

@AlanRail posted:

I'd go with the Z-Stuff optical sensors, unless you really get a kick out of wiring!

get them at Ross Custom (see above banner) not Z-Stuff, they're cheaper and more responsive to buyers.

Thanks for both tips. I don't get a kick out of wiring anything beyond break a circuit with a simple toggle switch. Optical sounds a lot better and I'll definitely look into them. Thanks!

I use the MTH & LIONEL Scale Gates with the Lionel 153IR Controller!   Been in operation for several years without "FAILURE"!  What else can I say???

FREDSTRAINS

So, getting back to the OP's request for prototypical operation (regardless of the brand of reliable/unreliable gates):  "I'd like a train coming from either direction on either mainline to (1) trip both gates before reaching the intersection and (2) have the gates rise when the last car on a train is completely through the intersection."

Can someone explain how the Z-Stuff optical sensors are arranged to provide (1) advance warning before the train gets to the crossing, (2) maintaining the warning signal as the train passes, and (3) release of the signal immediately upon the last car of the train going by the crossing?  (With the design assumption of varying-length trains.) And also could I get an explanation of how the Z-Stuff signal activator does this on a bi-directional basis?  How many detectors along the ROW does the Z-Stuff system use? I imagine that you'd need one at each end of the area, well before the crossing island (that's what the RR folks call it) and one at the island to release the gates when the last car goes by.

The old-fashioned "yes-brainer" system that I came up with uses the minimum number (IMHO) of track sensors (5) and relays (9) to accomplish these prototypical requirements.

The track sensors that I use are EAST reset, WEST reset, EAST detect, WEST detect, and ISLAND.

Thank you!

Here is a depiction of a typical Z-Stuff configuration:

The two DZ-1011 block signal lights are placed to the right and left of the crossing gates at any distance you desire. Each of these DZ-1011's optically detect the train passing by.  There is another optical detector in the crossing gates themselves. So a train moving in either direction will be first detected by the DZ-1011 and tell the crossing gates to close. The gates will remain closed until the other DZ-1011 detects that the train has passed by.

If you have something other than the Z stuff lights. The Azatrax system is very similar. 4 sensors are required and a board that they supply. All available as a kit. What’s good about their system. The board figures out which direction the train is traveling. They will come on early and shut off a short time after the train clears. In other words. Even though you have 4 sensors present. Only 3 are used in each direction. This way the lights or gates don’t stay activated long after the train passes. But come on well before it gets there. If your operating a short train. Shorter than the spacing of the sensors. You have 30 seconds to get to the next one. So the lights don’t go out and then back on again.

Just take the wiring one step at a time and it’s not hard. On the board the wires slip into a terminal that’s tightened with a screw. The sensors require the most work. After you figure out the placement. I had ballasted Gargraves. I drilled two holes. Each at maybe a 45 degree angle. Slipped the tubes up through the roadbed. They are really not that noticeable if that’s important to you. On my approach to the grade crossing. One end has a tunnel a short distance away. I placed the sensors in there and used the across the track method seeing they were out of sight.

Rick, posted a nice video on their operation previously. Here’s mine. NJI lights were used. At some point I need to get the sound module from ITT. The board has a hook up for it.

Art

I have nothing against a series of relays; that's a fine way of accomplishing this. I used relays before sensors became readily available.

however, if it can be done easier, with minimal wiring without relays, but with a series sensors tripping a controllable timing circuit.

I'd go with that.

Being a person who doesn't really follow the PANS (pretty amazing new stuff) of the hobby and who is stuck in the old era of POTS (plain old train stuff) I wasn't aware that somebody had created an electronic version of my relay-based circuit.  Back when I designed it, these new guys hadn't entered the industry.  I can see that using 4 detectors accomplishes the same effect that the Bloom System does.