Detailing Lionel NYC 20th Century Limited 21" passenger cars by John Rowlen

You do amazing detailing on these cars!  I would run them without the shells!

"Manhattan Island" Observation

This is the second car in the New York Central 20th Century Limited 8-car passenger Train. the "Manhattan Island" Observation.  This car also has a new interior and provides a chance to rethink how to add Preiser 65602 people to the car. 

The round seats gave me the greatest painting challenge to keep the paint from getting on the floor of the car.  Painting a straight seat back is much easier than these rounded chairs when you cannot see the other side of the chair as you paint.   (I had to use an Excel razor knife to scrape paint around the bases of some chairs.)  The two round tables also were challenging to get figures sanded down on the bottom and top of legs to fit between table and chair. The state sleeping rooms are similar to other sleepers.

Here are pictures of the factory interior, the painted interior, and the car with people added. Painting the Peiser 65602 Unpainted Seated People takes about six hours to paint twelve people carefully. I paint four packs of twenty-four at a time. Using different colors for the clothes so no two similar figures are wearing the same colors.

I will take Through-the-window pictures of the car when all cars are finished and on my "Valley of Bridges" Layout.  Have a fun detailing your cars.  It takes time but is worth the effort.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Here are a few photos "Through-the-Windows" of the "Manhattan Island" Observation. The car looks good with the room lights dimmed. I can't wait to detail one of the Pullman sleeping cars.

Have a good evening.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

Love what you did! Can you tell me what paint and brushes you used for the seats, tables, and other parts of the cars? I would like to attempt something like what you have done

Sam's Trains,

I use Tamiya Flat Paints now that Testors is no longer available.  The brushes are also Tamiya #87153 Ultra Fine (very short bristles), #87154 Extra Fine, and #87155 Fine brushes at around $12.15 a brush.   The length of the bristles increases as the brush number increases.  The 87155 longer bristle is good for painting between the sides of seats and reaching further down to the floor of the passenger car.

I mix all of my colors, stating with Tamiya Flat White and adding colored paint to create the pastel colors I use on the women.  Every time I paint people I make pastel blue, pink, yellow and green, and sometimes lavender.  The men are painted in grey, brown, tan and blue shades.  Hair colors are shades of brown, rust, grey and yellow.  Of the four packs of 24 figures, none of the 96 people should look alike.  (The China and pre-painted figures are always the same colors.  This means the same person is seen over and over in every single car.  I paint my own people to avoid this repetition.)

The darker the paint mixture, the shinier (glossier) the paint becomes even with flat based paint. Flat black always looks shiny and I only use it for shoes, never clothes.  At one time I used Testor's Dark Skin Tone and the paint would start drying out (forming a surface skin) after the jar was open ten minutes. The paint also dried as a shiny leather finish. This was great for leather jackets, but not for human skin.

As you can imagine, I use a lot of paint.  Since my local hobby shops closed, I buy all my paint on Ebay.  The cost of maintaining paint can get expensive, so I try to paint large numbers of people every time I mix paints.  My table gets covered with people in different states of being completed, on and off the plastic sprues they come fastened to.  It takes me 6 hours to paint 12 people as an average.  The parents with the babies take longer because they come in four parts: Torso, head, arm with a baby and arm with a bottle.  I pre-paint the parents before I glue them together. When finished gluing, I retouch glue joints with fresh paint to cover the joints and smooth out any painting errors.

I wear a headband with an LED light on it to see better.  I am near sighted so as of now, I do not use glasses or a magnifying glass.  I use disposable Emery Boards (for filing fingernails) to remove the plastic sprue points where the figures connected to the sprues.  I will stop here tonight and answer any questions that you add to this thread.  Have a good evening.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

What a great job.  Figures make passenger cars so much more interesting.

John your figures look great and do add an incredible level of detail.  I envy your patience required to paint the figures.  One question, how do you affix your passengers, especially the standing one that no longer have feet?

Coach Joe,

Most standing figures are too tall to stand inside the Lionel or Atlas O 21" passenger cars.  Their heads would be up against the LED Light Bar.  Since I can't grind the top of their heads off, (Well I could) I take the difference from the feet, to the ankles, to the calf.   I try to find a third contact point inside the car to have the figures lean against or touch.  The two legs get leveled as best as I can with my Dremel Tool with sanding drum.  Then I place them near another object secured to the car floor.  (Crate, wall, desk or sorting bins.)  I use Crazy Glue to secure my people.

My seated people get their butts sanded whether they like it or not.   This helps provide a flat bottom to make contact with the passenger car seat and lower them to the right height to look out the window.   Grinding also allows me to tilt the figure forward in a more intense conversation.  I can tilt the figure back and have them relaxing in their seat enjoying the ride.  Occasionally I need to remove a leg to fit the figures under a table in the dining car.  I always try to save the feet, and often put another figure with feet next to the foot-less figure to hide the missing foot or leg.  After detailing over two hundred and twenty 21" passenger cars, I have my passengers paired together to seat them at a table.  Just removing one leg, leaving the other to show under the table, is done often.

Since I use Crazy Glue, I need to allow an hour or two for the fumes to dissipate.  The glue fumes can frost the windows if the car is put back together too soon.

I hope I answered your question, but sometimes I get writing and drift off track.  Have a good evening.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Thank you John

In progress:  Painting forty-seven 1/50 Seated Figures I often use in Dining Cars.  The non-sound 20th Century Dining Car will be the next car detailed.  I still have to paint shoes and some skirts and pants.  These figures from China have been repainted with better details and precision.

Friday, January 5, 2024:  Progress continues as I paint more people for the next passenger car, a NYC 20th Century Dining car.

These figures were purchased on Ebay from China.  I repainted them with different colored clothes and better skin tone paint.  Some skin tones were almost white.

The Man in the Suit was always blue.  I repainted him in grey, light brown, dark brown and a blue suit.  When he appears twice on opposite sides of the dining car it will be less noticeable if his suit is a different color.  The original blue pant leg is still visible.  I had to hold the figure somewhere when I painted him.

The man twisted to the side had a hoodie painted on his head that made no sense and differed from the original Preiser factory painting of this figure.  I painted the figures with the sweater in pastel blue, green and cream for color variations. Some of these figures will have grey and a lighter brown pants painted to make them different from each other.  I still have to paint the hair in blond, light brown, grey and rust paint.  As I said before, it takes six hours to complete 12 figures as an average night's work.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen posted:

Friday, January 5, 2024:  Progress continues as I paint more people for the next passenger car, a NYC 20th Century Dining car.

These figures were purchased on Ebay from China.  I repainted them with different colored clothes and better skin tone paint.  Some skin tones were almost white.

The Man in the Suit was always blue.  I repainted him in grey, light brown, dark brown and a blue suit.  When he appears twice on opposite sides of the dining car it will be less noticeable if his suit is a different color.  The original blue pant leg is still visible.  I had to hold the figure somewhere when I painted him.

The man twisted to the side had a hoodie painted on his head that made no sense and differed from the original Preiser factory painting of this figure.  I painted the figures with the sweater in pastel blue, green and cream for color variations. Some of these figures will have grey and a lighter brown pants painted to make them different from each other.  I still have to paint the hair in blond, light brown, grey and rust paint.  As I said before, it takes six hours to complete 12 figures as an average night's work.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Super cool! Could you link us to where you get some of your pre-painted figures?

Sams Trains,

I get my China figures from Ebay. They come in packs of 24 or 32 depending on the figures selected.  The paint jobs are quick and often off-target.  I buy them because they are the only figures available right now.  I repaint all of them.  Preiser 65602 are not in stock currently.  I thought I found four 65602 in the United Kingdom, but was notified that the store did not have the four they listed on their website and could not get them at this time.  I found four at Reynauld's here in the United States.  They were the last they had.  The last time the Preiser 65602 were out of stock I had to wait two years.  I am hoping for better turn-around times.

Rowlen's Barber Shop - "A hair raising experience"

Here are thirty-three finished men ready for the next NYC 20th Century car, the non-sound Dining car.  The figures have different color combinations and a variety of hair colors.  If I use a figure twice in a car, they are at least in different color clothing.  I still have a few more figures out of the four 24-packs to complete. The 96 figures will give me enough to do four passenger cars with a few extras left over.

I post the painted figures to keep me motivated to push forward when I really could use a nap.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

WOW ! Absolutely amazing fabulous work !!!!!

Alex

@Sams Trains posted:

Super cool! Could you link us to where you get some of your pre-painted figures?

Believe this is them from amazon: https://www.amazon.com/P4806-p...aps%2C126&sr=8-4

Absolutely outstanding work. I have populated cars in the past but have been somewhat reluctant to try painting them as I was concerned I might ruined the interiors.  However, no that I see these and how well done they are I am going to purchase Golden Gate Depot and Lionel 21” figure's.

Providing the information on the paint and brushes is a real plus.

Thank you @John Rowlen

BAM Railroad,

Thank you for providing a link to the China figures on Amazon.  I purchased five sets.  If you look at the hairlines on the figures, you can see they could be improved.  I know I will be repainting them, but I want to see the quality from this supplier.

Here are 116 Preiser 65602 that I painted in the last week.  Some still need touch-up work.  Now I can begin painting the interior of the non-sound 20th Century Dinning Car.  The three parents with their babies are only available in the Preiser 65602 Unpainted Seated People packs.  China does not make these detailed figures.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

The third car to be detailed is the non-sound Lionel NYC 20th Century Dining Car.  This car has a new interior that will create a challenge when putting people at the tables.  The Station Sounds Dining Car has the same interior.  Since the kitchen windows are covered with blinds, I will not be building a scratch-built kitchen in this car.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

NYC 20th Century Dining Car    Non sound

Here is the completed interior of the first of two NYC 20th Century Dining Cars.  I spent eight hours yesterday sanding and grinding Preiser 65602 figures that I had painted.  The seats in this car have backs on them that are a sixteenth of an inch closer to the tables than the seats backs I added to previous dining cars.  That difference made it necessary to do more sanding/grinding with my Dremel Tool.  My fully charged Dremel Tool ran out of battery power with six more people to add.  It was a long day.

There are twenty-six people in this new interior.   Preiser gets $6.50 as an average for each figure they factory paint.  I use the Unpainted Seated People (Preiser 65602) and paint the $37.95 24-pack myself.  I do this because I sand/grind the figures to fit them in the car and need matching paint that I used to paint them to re-touch the figures before placing them at the tables in the car.  It is a labor of love.

As always, I tried to group the people in family and conversation groups.  I try to tell a story in each of my cars I detail.

Here two large photos and several smaller if you wish to see the people closer up.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

John Wonderful Work You are a true artist and an inspiration to me and I am sure to so many others Thank you so much for sharing your work with all of us

Thank you for the kind words.  Detailing these passenger cars is a rewarding challenge to find new ideas in detailing and new groupings of passengers.

Each day I try to make some progress on finishing the eight-car New York Central 20th Century Limited passenger train.  Today I started painting the interior floor of the second dining car, Station Sounds Dining Car #680.  #681 has been completed and I will post some "Through-the-Windows" pictures soon.

The blue plastic interior will need six to eight coats of white flat acrylic paint on the tables to fully hide the blue surface.  The seats will require three or more coats of custom-mixed paint (75% white/20% brown/5% red) to remove the "bleed or show-through" on the seats.

Have a good evening and stay warm.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

Through the Windows - Dining Car #681  Non-sound

Here is a brief video and a few small pictures of the first of two NYC 20th Century Dining Cars I am detailing.  The engine is still in the factory carton and will be joining the train soon.

Have a good evening.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

John, just curious, with such fine and detailed work on your figures, why do you choose to leave your passengers shiny and not applying a final "dull coat"?  Thx in advance.

TedW,  That's a good suggestion that I will do once all the cars are finished.  I may still do more interior work on cars previously done.

Today, Friday, January 12, 2024 I spent eight hours grinding and fitting Preiser 65602 Seated People that I painted. into the NYC 20th Century Limited Dining Car #680 floor interior.  After eight hours the Dremel Tool battery gave out and I had to stop to recharge.

I made some changes in the way I install the Man Feeding a Baby and the Woman with a Baby in front of her.  The new installation has them up higher and more easily seen.  There are a few more people I plan to install after the Dremel Tool fully charges.

The two Dining Cars and the Observation have clear views through the cars without walls blocking the view from either side of the car.  These cars are getting a few more people than the Pullman Sleeping Cars.  Two of the Pullmans have rooms all on one side and only a passageway on the other.

Here are some pictures of today's work.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

NYC 20th Century StationSounds Dining Car #680 

The second dining car is completed with twenty-five Preiser 65602 People at the tables.  I attempted to change the position of the figures to make it different from the non-sound Dining car #681.  There are now four of the eight cars completed.  The two dining cars are nice because people can be seen from either side of the car.  (Two of the Pullmen Sleepers have rooms all on one side and a passage hallway on the other.)

Pictures through the windows -  Here are a few small pictures that can be enlarged of passengers through the windows.  The four cars look nice being pulled by my N&W #2175.  The correct engine is still factory sealed and waiting for me to finish the cars. 

I have started a Pullman Sleeper that will be appearing shortly.  With a high of 11 degrees today and a low of 4 degrees, painting in the warm kitchen is the perfect thing to do,  Have a good Sunday.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Video of four car NYC 20th Century that was too big to include in above post.

John, I think your work is fantastic! On the mail car I think if you folded up some paper for the letter case it would look good.

Harley Rider,  Thank you for the suggestion.  I could fold a few sheets of paper and cut them to fit in the sorting boxes nearest the windows so they could be seen.

"Cascade Glory" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper

The fifth car I am detailing comes from the four-car set.  It is a 10-5 Pullman Sleeping Car.  The interior has been used before and has seven seats that are not molded into the interior floor but should be in the car.  There is also a missing sink in one of the smaller bedrooms.  Two of the smaller bedrooms are also missing seats.  I added a total of seven seats that I took from a Coach car interior part. 

I have included pictures of the factory interior and the interior that I modified by adding seats.  I am currently installing Preiser 65602 Seated People in the car.  It is a slow process as I needed to grind the arm rest off one seat and trim the hips of passengers sitting in the same seat,

I will post the car with people when it is completed.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

@John Rowlen posted:

Harley Rider,  Thank you for the suggestion.  I could fold a few sheets of paper and cut them to fit in the sorting boxes nearest the windows so they could be seen.

"Cascade Glory" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper

The fifth car I am detailing comes from the four-car set.  It is a 10-5 Pullman Sleeping Car.  The interior has been used before and has seven seats that are not molded into the interior floor but should be in the car.  There is also a missing sink in one of the smaller bedrooms.  Two of the smaller bedrooms are also missing seats.  I added a total of seven seats that I took from a Coach car interior part.

I have included pictures of the factory interior and the interior that I modified by adding seats.  I am currently installing Preiser 65602 Seated People in the car.  It is a slow process as I needed to grind the arm rest off one seat and trim the hips of passengers sitting in the same seat,

I will post the car with people when it is completed.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Where did you get the extras seats? What Color paints are you using for the seats and the cabinets? These are looking great!

Sam's Trains,  The seats are cut out of Lionel Empire State Express Coach Interior floor pieces that I bought from Lionel parts many years ago.  The part is sold out.   I pre-painted the seats a mixture of roughly 75% Tamiya flat white, 20% Tamiya flat brown and 5% Tamiya flat red.  Then I scored around the seats and used pliers to hold the floor while I broke the seat free.   (You will want to cut/score down the center aisle to get a one side strip of seats to work with.)

Because the tan seats were painted already, it made grinding the excess floor plastic from the bottom of the seat easier because I could see the contrast of painted seat and raw unpainted plastic floor.  I ran the seat back and forth on an Emery Board to level the seat before gluing it in place in the new passenger car.

The furniture is painted Tamiya flat Brown.  Multiple colors inside the car helps define items molded into the floor.  (Note: I NEVER paint the walls because they are translucent and brush marks will show with the bright LED lights illuminating the car.)

If you have further questions, please add them to this Thread.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Cascade Glory 10-5 Pullman Sleeper

The New York Central 20th Century Limited "Cascade Glory" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper is completed.  It is the fifth of eight cars that I am detailing with Preiser 65602 Unpainted Seated People that I painted.  There was much grinding to fit these figures side by side in the small seats in this car.  The man feeding a baby with a bottle took up most of the seat.  I had to grind down one arm rest so the woman next to him could sit on a corner of the seat.

The two people groupings in the small bedrooms needed grinding of shoulders and hips for the figure against the far wall.  The figure near the window had grinding of far side shoulder and hips.  When place in the car they will look good through the windows.

Here are pictures of the finished interior.  I will Dullcote figures at a later time.   Have a good day.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Imperial Garden 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeping Car

Here is the sixth NYC 20th Century passenger car that I am detailing.  The "Imperial Garden" from the four-car pack has 4 double bedrooms, 4 compartments and 2 drawing rooms in the center of the car.  All rooms are on one side of the car with a hallway passage along the other side.  Detailing this car will be easier because no seats needed to be added.  Four of the seats are wider and allow for better placement of larger people. (No grinding of hips and shoulders.)  This car has no forward or rear orientation, unlike the "Cascade Glory" that has 10 forward-facing small rooms.

Here are pictures of today's progress painting the interior and getting ready to add Preiser 65602 Seated People I painted.  Any stray paint marks will be razored off the floor or walls with an Excell knife.

Have a good evening.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

Through the Windows of the "Cascade Glory" 10-5 Pullman Sleeper

Here are a few pictures of the Cascade Glory passengers through the windows.  Have a good day.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

"Imperial Garden" 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeping Car with People

The Imperial Garden Sleeping Car is now completed with 18 figures added to the detailed interior.  Here are a few pictures of this sixth car in the eight-car 20th Century Limited passenger set.  There are two more Pullman cars to complete.

Have a good evening.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

Through the windows of the "Imperial Garden" 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeping Car

The Imperial Garden is finished and on the rails.  Here are a few through the windows photos of the people in the car.  Making Progress!

Have a good evening.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

Imperial Court 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeping Car  from the Two-pack

Here is another 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeping Car, the "Imperial Court" from the Lionel 20th Century Two-pack.  In an effort to keep "Making Progress" I painted the interior with two coats of paint tonight, January 16, 2024.  This is the seventh of eight passenger cars to be detailed and filled with Preiser 65602 Seated People that I painted.  After the seats have dried overnight, I will add the passengers to the car.

Have a good evening.   Sincerely, John Rowlen

Imperial Court 4-4-2 Pullman Sleeper with People added

This is the seventh of eight cars to which I am adding Preiser 65602 Seated People.  The glue is drying, and I will take "Through the windows" pictures soon.  I just received a coach interior piece so I can cut the seven seats that I need for the last 10-5 Pullman.

Have a good evening.  Sincerely, John Rowlen

John are there no doors on the rooms?

Coach Joe,

There are no doors on the Imperial Pullman cars.  I believe the rooms are open to the hallway passage so light can spill from the rooms into the hallway  It is also nice to get a glimpse of people in their staterooms from the hallway side of the car.  This is not objectionable to me.  I like it.  The bathrooms also do not have doors,, very European (You're-a-pee-in').  Thank you again for following this thread and contributing to it.

Have a good weekend when it gets here.  It is just around the next curve.

Sincerely, John Rowlen