Thanks... I google it and saw little... but did see what you mean pulling freight cars  .To bad Lionel did not make a trolley pulling freight set back in the day! maybe it could of been a good idea when they where running in small towns  etc...maybe Evan Hooterville....    daniel

Most interurban roads hauled freight--IIRC, a few were freight only--though the usual method was with electric locomotives (most often just called "motors"), often steeple-cabbed, and often interesting in form and function.  Wide-swing couplers and round car end sills facilitated negotiating the sharp curves--you know, like 027 sharp!--involved in running freight inside city industrial districts.

Electric traction was once a very important and large niche in the world of 0 scale.  You can build a very realistic, uncompressed layout in a small space, even using 2-rail track track.  

The single truck street railway streetcars (like the Lionel model) usually didn't have couplers.  They were not built to "steam road" standards.  Compared to an interurban freight motor, they are very light weight and were designed to basically pull themselves and at best maybe a trailer (connected by a drawbar) of similar design.

Rusty

Passenger trolleys rarely pulled freight cars; passenger trailers were pulled.

All sorts of freight motors of very diverse designs pulled freight cars of both routine freight car styles as well as rather specialized cars.

For a good overview see:

The Buffalo and Lake Erie Traction Company used flats to haul automobiles to dry road in the springtime.

Just found this link  Duplicate Slide: L&WV Laurel Line Freight Motor Trolley -- Antique      

 have to copy and paste it  its shows a trolley pulling a freight car..

@DanssuperO posted:

Just found this link  Duplicate Slide: L&WV Laurel Line Freight Motor Trolley -- Antique      

 have to copy and paste it  its shows a trolley pulling a freight car..

Parts of a passenger trolley that had seen better days rebuilt into a freight motor by the shop.  Not an uncommon action to take older pass equipment and rebuild into something else to do a MoW job or be a freight motor or some sort.  Take a look at some of the W&OD equipment - freight motors built out of box cars and some funky shop built motors, too.  One of the fun bits of traction modeling - there was a lot of creativity in play re-purposing whatever was on hand to make whatever was needed

I doubt that the car type Lionel made ever pulled anything on a regular basis, As stated above many larger streetcars did/could pull freight cars. 

In America, in the rail world, historically, every kind of imagined critter has been tried and/or ran commercially, such as California's mining monorail. 

My memory might be foggy on facts, so bear with me...I seem to remember the trolley line that went from Frederick Maryland to Thurmont, Md towed a flat car/gondola type to carry goods. I worked with a fella that would NOT grant passage or sell part of his property back to newer owners of said trolley line.  Additionally, he told me that when the line was initially abandoned, there is a flatcar "that was towed behind said trolley" abandoned, lying in his backyard. Just FYI, the new owners  were trying to restart the line for a tourist attraction.  Heard and discussed this @ 25 years ago!

The Washington Baltimore and Annapolis Electric Railway used inter-urban cars as the power for freight trains.  The railway also served a gravel pit.   This is all documented in the book; Every Hour on The Hour by John Merriken.  This book contains many photos of freight cars ( even flat cars ) being pulled by Inter-urban cars.  ( not steeple cab motors ).   There is at least one photo in this book showing a baggage type inter-urban pulling a string of flat cars from the gravel pit.  There are other photos showing strings of boxcars being pulled by inter-urban.  This railroad was the only railroad to serve the city of Annapolis, Md. and therefore provided vital freight service to the state capital of Maryland, which included coal for the US Naval Academy.  The WB&A interchanged with the B&O in Baltimore and Annapolis Junction, Md. and the Pennsy in Odenton, Md. and perhaps Washington DC.     This railroad connected the downtowns of Washington DC, Baltimore, and Annapolis.  It hauled passengers as well as freight.   

@DanssuperO posted:

Just found this link  Duplicate Slide: L&WV Laurel Line Freight Motor Trolley -- Antique      

 have to copy and paste it  its shows a trolley pulling a freight car..

While it may be loaded with windows and has trolley poles, that thing is still a freight motor.  There is no provision for boarding passengers.

Street railway trolley's (which is what the OP is indicating with the Lionel trolley) are built low to the ground to enable ease of passenger embarking and disembarking.

Rusty

So what I thinking  is a regular electric trolley would of been converted with a gas or diesel motor and be called a "freight motor"?  It looks like that loading platform could put people on but  I'm thinking a freight motor trolley is or was converted to be only the power unit? thanks for the info..daniel

Can't speak for other systems, but Pacific Electric had freight hauling operations. During the early days, they actually serviced part of the Port of Los Angeles and owned 25% of the Harbor Belt Line along with Southern Pacific, Union Pacific and Santa Fe. I've never seen a photo of a passenger unit coupled to anything other than another passenger unit and as I recall, the couplers weren't compatible with a freight car anyway. Add to that the fact many of the interurbans had wood beam frames that would make them incompatible with hauling freight. PE had electric locomotives handling freight cars. I recall seeing a photo of a small "freight motor" that was basically close to a motorized box car, but I can't remember if it was for actual small, local freight delivery or part of the maintenance fleet.

@DanssuperO posted:

So what I thinking  is a regular electric trolley would of been converted with a gas or diesel motor and be called a "freight motor"?  It looks like that loading platform could put people on but  I'm thinking a freight motor trolley is or was converted to be only the power unit? thanks for the info..daniel

A freight motor would still be powered just like a passenger trolley from overhead wire; just pulls and/or hauls freight.

@mwb posted:

A freight motor would still be powered just like a passenger trolley from overhead wire; just pulls and/or hauls freight.

Ok but was it a regular trolley that was gutted and refitted with a bigger  electric motor and did not have room or wanted passengers in it ..thanks! daniel

@DanssuperO posted:

Ok but was it a regular trolley that was gutted and refitted with a bigger  electric motor and did not have room or wanted passengers in it ..thanks! daniel

The electric traction motors are mounted in the trucks.  A diesel or gas conversion would definitely replace or remove seating capacity, but that wouldn't necessarily make it an effective freight motor.

Let's be clear about one thing:  Street railway equipment is smaller, lower, lighter and do not have "steam road" brake or coupler capability.

Even if there was some way to secure a standard freight car to a street trolley, there would have to be a brakeman riding the car, otherwise the coupler would likely punch its way through the street railway trolley's rear end when stopping. (Assuming the traction motors didn't burn up trying to haul something it wasn't designed for.)

Systems like Illinois Terminal operated both light street railway type equipment, heavy passenger interurban equipment and freight motors compatible with steam road equipment.   Heck, the IT even had some 0-8-0's...

Rusty

GREAT soon Ill have my small project down and show it under modified engines or cars here.. what I learned here....  was if anything was going to get pulled (more of than anything else ) would of been another empty trolley non motorized unit..

so that's what my 60 trolley will have two passager cars with a motor man in the back to help stop  it !

thanks for the info! daniel

Speedrail used 1121 to pull freight cars after their only freight motor burned.  It had the best wheels and a concrete floor.  It was also the TMER&L Interurban that went on that excursion to Roundout on the North Shore Line.  

There were instances of electrically powered passenger equipment pulling flat cars or even box cars.  This would not be the preferred method of handling freight.  The passenger cars did not have as much pulling power.  Plus they could be more delicate than a freight car so if something went wrong you'd have a busted passenger car.  Still if the line did not have freight motors available then passenger equipment would have to do.

Dayton and Kettering Ohio had trolley moving both people and freight via boxcar and flat cars at least thru 1972. I recall watching. Dayton a small city was one of the last with trolley service.

Dayton still has the overhead catenary and tracks today. At least in some areas of downtown.  

@lan posted:

Free lance maintenance of way cars. sort of flat car converted & a coal hopper ballast spreader

There actually were regular coal hopper motors that were operated to bring coal down town where the regular RR's were unable to access and deliver.  There were also ash motors to transport the ash and residue out of down town areas.

@ChiTown Steve posted:

Dayton still has the overhead catenary and tracks today. At least in some areas of downtown.  

That wire is for trackless trolleys:

I took these a few years back when the ETBs were new. They are still in service.

While this topic isn't one where I have much expertise, I do recall reading/seeing that the Sacramento Northern did haul freight as part of its interurban operation.  How much of that was as a mixed consist I'm not sure.  They certainly had electric locomotives (steeple jacks) as part of their fleet.  Here is a description of "trailers" used by the SN:  https://www.wplives.org/sn/trailer.html

So I guess some of this depends on how broad your definition of trolleys and interurban is.  I did learn that SN had a subsidiary line, called that Oakland, Antioch and Eastern (familiar names for us Bay Area denizens) that hauled interurban freight/passengers - restoration of one of their flat cars was the subject of this:  http://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28133  If you scroll down, you will see some pictures of this restored flat car and what I assume is a restored 'line car' once used by the Key System (East Bay trolley/interurban predecessor to BART)

Some “trolley” lines did indeed haul freight. Many used what they called “freight motors” that looked like the larger passenger interurbans with trolley-like ends with a boxcar middle.

Some operations, like the Texas Electric here in Texas, also had “trailers” that looked like unpowered freight motors.

Yes, some “trolley” lines did haul “steam road” freight cars, at least on their own lines and away from streetcar tracks. The Pacific Electric and the Sacramento Northern have already been mentioned. The Texas Electric hauled freight cars on parts of its own trackage; so did the Connecticut Company. These were handled by middle-cab low-voltage (600 v) DC electric locomotives.

i think one or two freight trolley lines might survive in Iowa.

someone define a doodlebug

@doug b posted:

someone define a doodlebug

Also known as a gas-electric.  A motorized coach or combine, may be capable of acting also as a locomotive to pull a non-powered trailer or passenger car.  Some were capable of pulling short freight trains.  Only the front truck had traction motors.

An S-scale example shown here:

Rusty