Dirty Tinplate

Looking good George. Just got some nickel and brass Std Cohen Day Coaches that are going to take a lot of elbow grease. Always a good feeling when they turn out nice.

Steve

George George,

   You do not want to waste your valuable time messing around getting your hands dirty, please just purchase some new stuff, and box that dirty old Tin stuff up and send it all to me, I will take good care of it, I promise!

PCRR/Dave

Not to worry they will all look similar to this old original Lionel 817 Tin Plate Caboose, and you will be able to see pictures of them, as I post them here on the OGR.  Young men like you do not have the time, you need to be working making money that the Government will take, to pay for my SS retirement.

It's 3:19 in the morning, I had to liven the place up a might!

looks great George

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

George George,

   You do not want to waste your valuable time messing around getting your hands dirty, please just purchase some new stuff, and box that dirty old Tin stuff up and send it all to me, I will take good care of it, I promise!

PCRR/Dave

Not to worry they will all look similar to this old original Lionel 817 Tin Plate Caboose, and you will be able to see pictures of them, as I post them here on the OGR.  Young men like you do not have the time, you need to be working making money that the Government will take, to pay for my SS retirement.

It's 3:19 in the morning, I had to liven the place up a might!

Dave,

Go back to sleep, and keep dreaming. Old men like you need a full night's sleep. 😂 

Don't worry, the government is definitely taking enough SS for both of us, and as I am still working well into my retirement years, I will keep supporting them / us.

Glad to see you got that 817 beauty back on the tracks! I have an MTH repro, but the more of these dirty, old trains I acquire, the more I prefer the little nicks and stratches of an old cleaned up car to the new repro cars. That doesn't mean I will stop buying MTH though...

George

George,

  Good finds there. You mentioned using an auto polisher. Can you take a picture of the bottle/can when you have time and post it on your thread? 

   Tom 

Here is the link.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Ma...QL70_&dpSrc=srch

I learned about this from a tinplate dealer in St. Louis, MO. 

George

Looks good George. I have had good results with this polish.

George & Joe,

   Thanks for the recommendations on the cleaner wax, I will need to give them a try.  

PCRR/Dave

NJCJOE posted:

Looks good George. I have had good results with this polish.

This looks like a good option too. Seems to have a similar purpose and says it will remove oxidation. Mine doesn't necessarily shine afterward. I sometimes have to use something afterward (like Ultimate Detailer) to "polish the wax". It may be because I am doing this by hand and the surface is so small. With a car, you can use an orbital buffer to really get the wax to shine.

George

Kooks great George and thanks for the cleaning wax info.

Looks great George!  I think I’ll give the polish a try on a Marx tank car that I have two of.  

BARailroad posted:

Looks great George!  I think I’ll give the polish a try on a Marx tank car that I have two of.  

So, the polish works best on a prewar enamel paint that is oxidized or has dirt and grease embedded into it from humid environments. Marx is frequently lithographed. I would start with something more suitable for that finish. On Lionel litho, I used automotive Plastic scratch remover with good success. The product I have is Meguiars Plastx. The TR-3 might work but I haven't tried it with litho or decals. Either way, go slow and start in a small area. Gentle rubbing to start.

George

Don’t use polish on any of the Marx with satin a finish. Only a mild dish soap. Polish and wax may ruin the satin finishes 

There are also some automobile "micro scratch" polishers that I have used with success.

Gentlemen,

   Papa Steve is right again, no polish of any kind on Marx products or you remove the original coloring.  Clean it up, using very mild soap, Ivory Liquid if you have it, and run it!

PCRR/Dave

I tried looking for Turtle Wax Color Back a few weeks ago and I saw several show up on Amazon. Today, I looked and I can't find 1 place where it is in stock. Any ideas? 

Tom 

I use Turtlewax as well... If I can, I'll wash gently with Dawn, just get the Dawn on my fingertip and rub gently and rinse.  Then go for the wax.  Sometimes it is easier to wash and wax than to make the wax do all the work.  That said, I'm always interested in trying a new method.

I used paste wax on this tank car because the paint was cracking and the Turtlewax was making a mess.  I Scrubbed the crap out of it and then waxed what was left.  This car was completely rusted from the inside out it was foil thin in some spots. I've never seen one so rusted on the inside yet decent on the outside.

This Lionel 2655 looked like rusty crap but cleaned up well enough to not repaint which was a problem, cause I wanted to repaint it!

I should also say that I have had great luck using the Turtlewax on Litho trains and have been able to clean a lot really dirty ugly litho without destroying it.

I've got a spare 655, missing it's doors and guides that would be a good repaint project.....

MNCW posted:

I tried looking for Turtle Wax Color Back a few weeks ago and I saw several show up on Amazon. Today, I looked and I can't find 1 place where it is in stock. Any ideas? 

Tom 

I just Googled it. Here you go.

https://www.autobarn.net/turtl...QEAQYASABEgJxCPD_BwE

George

Hi George,

 Thanks for looking...I actually had seen that one. When you click on the button to add it to "your cart," there is a message that it is not available. 

Tom 

This is a fascinating thread. I’d never thought of using automotive polish to clean the enamel paint of a pre war tinplate car. Thank you George S. What a great idea. It’s so logical. The good thing about automotive polishes is that they’re available in different grades. You can start with a mild polish like Turtle Wax, and then if that doesn’t quite do the job, you can select a polish containing extra cutting compound (without going too far!).

Use of this sort of polish might explain something I’ve noticed from time to time with pre war tinplate cars sold online. I’ve sometimes wondered why the badges on the sides of cars seem to be clogged with white powder. Now it makes sense. That’s probably dried polish that hasn’t been fully removed. These photos are not very good examples, but I think you know what I mean.

George S posted:

Here is the link.

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Ma...QL70_&dpSrc=srch

I learned about this from a tinplate dealer in St. Louis, MO. 

George

Hah, bet you can't guess where they earned about it !   Its a heavy cut....to heavy for some color and some manufacturers paint.  The flyer cars you are using it on are perfect candidates.  I would not use it on peacock or mojave ( Dave - green and tan ;-)   or on Wine colors for Lionel for example.

Rob,

   Ya got to love this stuff!  Love the Green & Tan AF Rolling stock. ( Peacock & Mojave)

PCRR/Dave

Use of this sort of polish might explain something I’ve noticed from time to time with pre war tinplate cars sold online. I’ve sometimes wondered why the badges on the sides of cars seem to be clogged with white powder. Now it makes sense. That’s probably dried polish that hasn’t been fully removed. These photos are not very good examples, but I think you know what I mean.

Polish always seems to leave tell tale signs such as bits of polish in cracks, crevices and corners. or uneven appearance in those same places where it is difficult to buff away the polish. Careful work will usually address these issues.

I've used Zymol Original Formula Cleaner/Wax on a few pieces with good results.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Rob,

   Ya got to love this stuff!  Love the Green & Tan AF Rolling stock. ( Peacock & Mojave)

PCRR/Dave

Dave, You mean Teal and buff?

Firstly, thank you George for starting this topic.  It's been very helpful.

I would like to recommend another product for cleaning dirty tinplate.  It's Maguiar's Ultimate Compound and it's cutting action seems to be just right - not too harsh and not too gentle.  It contains micro-abrasives that seem to work well to remove ingrained dirt from tinplate.  I've used aggressive automotive cutting compounds before and they tend to scratch, however I can't see any scratching with this one.

I've done a small test patch on the very left panel of this car.

The cream panel and the black frame really gleam in the light.

I also did a test on the lower left of the roof.  Very little rubbing was needed.

... and again with reflected light.  It's probably good enough to leave as it is, but they recommend a wax afterwards.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

George George,

   You do not want to waste your valuable time messing around getting your hands dirty, please just purchase some new stuff, and box that dirty old Tin stuff up and send it all to me, I will take good care of it, I promise!

PCRR/Dave

Not to worry they will all look similar to this old original Lionel 817 Tin Plate Caboose, and you will be able to see pictures of them, as I post them here on the OGR.  Young men like you do not have the time, you need to be working making money that the Government will take, to pay for my SS retirement.

It's 3:19 in the morning, I had to liven the place up a might!

can you hear the sarcasm!!??

Anyone ever try WD40 to clean up old tin plate? Thoughts?

I have never tried WD40, but was warned that it should not be used because it could creep between the paint/litho and the tinplate and in the end make things worse.

Regards

Fred

WD40 has a significant amount of solvent in it along with oil. It can remove paint, so be careful. I have used it on brass and nickel to remove tarnish, dirt and corrosion.

George

Lots of people used to suggest WD40 but in the last 20 years that seems to have changed.  I do not use it any more for anything.  There are many other superior products you can use for cleaning/polishing AND there are much better oils you can use for lubrication needs.  I have at times heard of engineering type reasons as to why WD 40 is not an ideal product for our use, but they escape me currently.

For electrical it's bad because it does not dry and thus picks dirt up and then gums.  The tube stereo guys swear by other products that clean  (DeoxiT it or something similar) and at the same time those products dry with no residue. so contacts stay clean and less likely to grow gunk with use.   They also have products that do provide a production to the surface. 

The most interesting thing I used to see mentioned was a dirty rag soaked with Liquified Lionel smoke pellet residue.  That was supposedly a great product that would lift or pull dirt and debris out of old Lionel paint.  Wives tail or not I have no idea, never tried it lol. 

One last comment, I do believe the prewar Lionel instruction booklets did suggest to use a good auto wax on the tinplate trains so we are on the right track especially with modern products such as Meguiar's. 

Edit, attached the Deoxit  spec sheet which you can find on line, but it tells ingredients etc.

George S posted:

WD40 has a significant amount of solvent in it along with oil. It can remove paint, so be careful. I have used it on brass and nickel to remove tarnish, dirt and corrosion.

George

I use Brasso a lot for that stuff, but it can be a bit strong especially if the part has a thin plating surface.  Nickel plated journals for instance are very delicate.  Other thicker parts, can take it  and polish up pretty well.  WD would probably work well on journals and not hurt them.

I used WD40 on a brass Lionel plate and it did not take the lettering off. I use Brasso too. When it's really bad the WD40 with steel wool gets it done.

I do think WD40 could clean tinplate if you put it on a rag, but so would mineral spirits. I certainly wouldn't start there!

George

I’ve always used the original Johnson’s paste wax successfully on American Flyer and Marx .

Dont use WD40 at all. Its made to disperse water, and leave a coating.  Its a terrible lubricant for trains.  It can wipe out decoration.  It can stop electrical conductivity when dry.

SOOO many reasons.

One thing not mentioned here (I think) is to test clean a tiny area to see if there is a reaction. Some paint use can use lacquer thinner on, others can't stand water even.

Well ok George, am gonna eat some crow here... I broke down. Recently got a Lionel 613,614,615 set in Terra Cotta/Maroon with the right amount of patina for my liking. Of course the lighting at the train show was not optimal and once home was bummed with the amount of ground in grease. No amount of soap/water and rubbing would touch that grease and was getting to the point of stop before real damage is done! So...weapon of choice was the Mequiars Ultimate Compound -what a difference! Followed up with a coat of regular turtle wax since it's recommended by Mequiar and should help keep out future dirt. Not saying I'd do this all the time but for the ground in grease -was the option especially after seeing Dennis's photos.

By the way, the compound worked great on the yellow and terra cotta but no way was trying on the maroon. Used the paste wax for that and worked fine.

John

That’s right John! At that point, it’s not patina. It’s just dirty. You did the right thing.

George

Holy crap....BURFLE