Final Feedback on 12x14 (30 deep) L shaped layout

Hi Kringle25,

I looked at the previous posts and it looks like you're there.

Would you mind attaching your SCARM file?

What track are you using? 

Here you go, attached ...

I gave you no suggestions and haven't seen your earlier posts, nevertheless I like your plan. One exception is the very tight end curve arcs. Do you possibly have room to fold & fatten those bones and to increase the curve radi to at least 27"[054]?? Same for increasing the corner mainline curve.

Good luck.

I would have loved to make the end turns out of something other than 036, but those 45's at the end are only 4 feet deep (I am using Mianne bench work) with the straights at a 30 inch depth, so I couldn't even fit 048 turns without it extending over the ends of the bench. Ideally as I add to it will turn into an around the room layout. The corner section connecting the two ends is 048. I could probably have used 054, but I had a bunch of 048 on hand and just decided to use that, given that even longer trains and cars navigate it ok at speed with no issues with overhang. It would be more realistic if it was a 054 or 072, but I decided on the balance between space and turn pragmatics. As I expand off this layout over time, I will probably try to move to 072 wherever I gain. All of my turnouts are 072 switches now and I am only using 036 switches where I have to for space constraints at the ends of the bone.

Kringle25,

You have almost the same layout as I am doing. Your's is a bit longer but still the same idea. I am using Fastrack and was planning on going with 2 independent running trains but I am rethinking this process for the time being. Cost and the itch to get some trains running is slowing me down.

My Lazy L is 5 x 9 x 11 with a 3 foot angle in the center of the two boards.

Brian,

You have no idea how fortunate you are having 5 foot depth instead of 4 foot depth on the ends for your turns. That means you can use 048 or even 054 potentially given your angles. That is the one thing about my layout I don't like with only having 4 foot depth on the end turns it locks me into 036 unless I move away from fast track and go to a thinner track that I could squeeze an 048 on their just barely. Given the layout similarities and you wanting to run two independent trains, do you mean one mainline but 2 C&C engines or did you find a way to squeeze in two independent mainlines too?

I am going to try and include my rough draft from SCARM in this reply. Some of the track connections did not meet 100% but I figured I would have to fiddle with the layout once it is on the boards. YES, I do want to run 2 different trains at the same time using 2 separate tracks, but at some points they do connect to each other. After reading and listening to all these GREAT Guys on here I am so confused with the wiring to achieve this task. I can wire a house or a building, but these slang and short abbreviated sayings are keeping me up at night. My NEW plan now is to get track on the layout and then try and figure things out Slowly.

I want to use two separate controllers to control the 2 separate trains. It can be done..I will get there..

I agree with going with the largest curves you can.  It is easy enough to extend the benchwork.

Al

I actually have a 0-72 and a few 0-54 curves on the long side of the L.

All other turns are a mix of 0-54 and a few 0-36.

That extra foot made the difference. I actually laid out the tracks on the floor first. It was an easy task for me because my floor has 1-foot tiles laid down. Commercial Linoleum anyway. So I laid the outerloop the way I wanted it and then built my frame from that dimension without cramping my basement. Then I added the Innerloop and connected the (2) separate tracks with switch tracks. I am pretty sure I have the idea down pat on how to run (2) trains at the same time without crashing them.

I will keep you guys posted.

This weekend I am painting the Homosote a Light Tan. Then I am laying down the outerloop first and start to build my tunnel and then the innerloop will follow.

Kringle25,

I think you should consider ways to disguise the reverse loops. Check out 50's Lionel layouts and such. They just didn't leave them exposed as a train doesn't look it's best on the r-loop. But, they still used them.

Looks like it will be fun! Nice work!

Thanks Moon, will do some research and see what techniques may work with my modeling plan to hide the 036's.

If you can extend the plywood a few inches past the benchwork to get enough room for O48 curves, it will make a big difference.

I like the design, but if possible, you should put a straight between the curve and the switch on the aisle side edge of the the reversing loops. Even though three-rail trains can handle reverse-curves like this, it doesn't really look right and at higher speeds can cause derailments. Moonman's suggestion is a good one as it breaks up the layout and provides additional scenery options. Hiding trains on part of the layout makes the layout look larger and more interesting.

Matt:  It's a very good plan for the space.  I only have one comment which is dumb and not worth the hassle but the turnout that connects to the two stub-end sidings...I would move the turnout...hopefully I can describe this so you will understand what I'm saying...across the board, where that angle section is completing the loop--and put that turnout on the straight leg of the turnout across the board so that the "lead" to the stubs is just slightly longer...ever little bit helps some times.

Matt: not sure I am following you on where to put the straight. Do you mean on the R turnout on each end of the dog bone where the 036 half circle meats the switch on the 45 degree side of the layout?

John: Not following you at all with your description. sorry.

John,

I thought the same thing... "How to make the stubs longer?", but he has 072 turn-outs and 036 curves in the inside. By the time you make the turn you don't gain any length for the stub.  Coming the right side r-loop barely gets another 10" to the stub and requires two L-hand switches.

Conclusion: for 3/4-1 more car added, it's good like is.

No switching lead...

Click the link below for a reprint of an article I wrote some time ago explaining what a "Switching Lead" is.

Thanks again to everyone for all the great feedback. Got a curve ball. What if I build onto the end 45's of each side of the benchwork so I could run 048's at the reverse loops and then only do a single reverse loop at one end of the bone and get rid of the reverse loop where my yard is to I can elongate the spurs and also have an dual engine shed off the wye at the end of the year. I did a quick and dirty edit attached to show what I am talking about. Any negatives to not have dual reversing loop/R's at both ends of the bone? Also any issue with elongating the end spurs and/or issue with how the wye is attached to put a dual engine shed? I didn't edit the one end of the the reverse loop, but it is implied I would keep that R reverse loop and just extend the benchwork on that part of the table and make the loop out of 048 like in the mockup.

With only one reversing loop, you can only turn trains in one direction when running forward.

Turning a train around to run in the opposite direction will require a back-up move.

Keep the two reverse loops.

You can also use 45 degree crossovers to allow you to cross the reverse loop leg with the yard spurs.

I was referring to the turnouts indicated by the arrows. You have a mainline "reverse-curve" situation going there, and while 3-rail trains can negotiate them they jerk the train at speed. Adding a straight in between smooths things out. Optimally, you'd want a straight as long as thconsideest piece of equipment you'd run but space considerations prohibit that.

I'd also second Rich's suggestion for adding a switching lead. There's enough space for one even with the new straights mentioned above in place.

I'm at work so I sketched in a solution by hand and scanned it. You can install a 45deg crossover off the switch feeding the yard and run through one leg to the main line as shown. This would give you double reverse loops. The other leg can be used to extend your yard lead. I like your track plan and I agree with others, the bigger the turn radius, the better!

Kringle25,

here's a knuckleball. Minor benchwork adjustment. 75" and 65" stub yard with yard lead-in and crossover. Not much left for scenery or accessories.