Got a FREE Lionel layout: Now the rebuild begins; Nov 24, updated

Cool!! Your grandson will love it once you get through with it! I know he will because I'm 50+ and just looking at it I love it!! LOL!!

Most of the switches from back then work better than the new ones.  

I'd restore it, too. Pretty cool.

Very nice. Was this a Lionel Dealer Display Layout or just a random design?

johnstrains posted:

Very nice. Was this a Lionel Dealer Display Layout or just a random design?

A couple of forum members here, believe that the plan follows one shown in a Lionel plan booklet from about 1954. Possibly modified to use the smaller 027 curves.

Jeff

If I may offer an alternate opinion, I think you would be better off to plan a whole new layout. You do not have the original buildings or accessories to go with this layout. And just because it's an old layout, there isn't anything real "classic" about it IMO. It's basically two ovals with spurs and all O27 curves.

All of the track and turnouts and connector pins would need to be removed and cleaned or replaced to make it run reliably. I see some of the prewar O27 electric switches which are not non-derailing. The postwar non-derailing switches aren't entirely reliable on track power, and it's a bit of a project to modify them for fixed voltage. I've modified and rebuilt old O27 switches but I don't recommend doing that; it's more trouble than it's worth.

For that size of layout space you have a lot of potentially more interesting track plan possibilities with wider curves and reversing tracks and smoothly flowing compound curves with easements. O22 switches (with O31 curves) would be a considerable improvement over old O27 switches.

This is just my opinion.

Ace,

 You make some good points here. I have thought about pretty much starting over with this, and may decide to do so. However, something about restoring/rebuilding this old layout just appeals to me. I may change my mind once I get deeper into this project. We will see how it goes. The curves are not much of an issue with me, as I have always been addicted to Lionel 027 track and the equipment that will run well on that.

Jeff

Here is an example of a way-cool O27 layout in the space of about 64" x 124". I figured the track plan from a photo posted elsewhere. The second track plan shows a version shortened to 64" x 102".

Ace, that layout is from the Lionel Layout contest in the late 1950's. The track plan was the one used for the 4'x8' diagram in the catalogues from 1958 to 196?. As such, I say go for rebuilding it. It's a classic in its own right.

REBUILD!!!!!!!!!

One more vote for a rebuild. 

Even if the fellow hasn't decided if he wants to let go of the accessories that came with the layout, I think it is entirely reasonable to at least let you see them. Most if not all of them should still be available on the new/used secondary market.

Ask. What can he say?

I think you'll know once its cleaned if its a keeper.

 A list, even from memory, of what was once there, sure would be nice.

Maybe he is waiting to see what you do with the layout, to release the rest!???

 You obviously appreciate it, so let him know......  Ok, let him know again

 Send progress photos, and offer the thing back if you could bare to part with it, Just get the point across its way cooler to keep it all together. 

  And check those ZW throttle rollers before you show off to Lookie Lou or his buddies. 4 screws and a peak inside beats sawed windings and a 50W-ZW

another vote to restore. and that old track won't cost anything but some time to clean up. maybe get the grandson in on this.

Hi MowingMan,

For me the age and scarcity of this layout make it a significant piece of the toy train history/past. You do not find these types of things every day. I say restore it carefully with an eye to preserving originality and character as much as you can while still ending up with a presentable layout. You can knock out a comparable new layout of your choice in very little time if you want to, but once this old one is modified much of it is lost.

Just my thoughts..

Mike M.

I had a 1950's layout as well, but couldn't move it from where my great uncle built it in the 1950's (Battle Creek, MI) to here (the Red Clay Belt). It was embedded in the wall, similar size to yours. I regret the fact that my grandad TOOK IT APART to bring it down. Been looking through the family photo albums to see how he built it, so I can rebuild it. But no luck. So GO FOR IT!!!

I have made my decision about this layout. I am going to rebuild it. It is kind of like saving a little piece of history to me. The rebuild will probably take a lot longer than just building a new layout, so it might not be ready by this Christmas.  I guess I can always set up the "Carpet Central" again this year for my grandson, if the old layout is not finished. 

I will post photos here of the rebuild as it progresses, however slow that may be.

Step #1: Clean out one side of the garage.

Jeff

mowingman posted:

I have made my decision about this layout. I am going to rebuild it.

It is kind of like saving a little piece of history to me.

It is history!

 The rebuild will probably take a lot longer than just building a new layout, so it might not be ready by this Christmas.  I guess I can always set up the "Carpet Central" again this year for my grandson, if the old layout is not finished. 

Patience a virtue; Rome? Not in a day..

I will post photos here of the rebuild as it progresses, however slow that may be.

Step #1: Clean out one side of the garage.

Well, You can skip step #1 photos, but we'll be waiting on your small steps to blossom into a run.

El Classico posted:

I had a 1950's layout as well, but couldn't move it from where my great uncle built it in the 1950's (Battle Creek, MI) to here (the Red Clay Belt). It was embedded in the wall, similar size to yours. I regret the fact that my grandad TOOK IT APART to bring it down. Been looking through the family photo albums to see how he built it, so I can rebuild it. But no luck. So GO FOR IT!!!

I'd love to have photos of the various forms the layouts here once took too.

  Are you starting it from scratch El C? Or do you have a bench work puzzle to assemble? Or is it track and structure mapping? 

Discussion may shake loose some useful memories for you too.

I have the plan, but ended up deciding to start over, since I had the track and the set. Still went with a 1950's style layout (lots of loops, Plasticville, hill at one end) though.

Adriatic posted:

mowingman posted:

I have made my decision about this layout. I am going to rebuild it.

It is kind of like saving a little piece of history to me.

It is history!

 The rebuild will probably take a lot longer than just building a new layout, so it might not be ready by this Christmas.  I guess I can always set up the "Carpet Central" again this year for my grandson, if the old layout is not finished. 

Patience a virtue; Rome? Not in a day..

I will post photos here of the rebuild as it progresses, however slow that may be.

Step #1: Clean out one side of the garage.

Well, You can skip step #1 photos, but we'll be waiting on your small steps to blossom into a run.

El Classico posted:

I had a 1950's layout as well, but couldn't move it from where my great uncle built it in the 1950's (Battle Creek, MI) to here (the Red Clay Belt). It was embedded in the wall, similar size to yours. I regret the fact that my grandad TOOK IT APART to bring it down. Been looking through the family photo albums to see how he built it, so I can rebuild it. But no luck. So GO FOR IT!!!

I'd love to have photos of the various forms the layouts here once took too.

  Are you starting it from scratch El C? Or do you have a bench work puzzle to assemble? Or is it track and structure mapping? 

Discussion may shake loose some useful memories for you too.

Last I saw that layout intact was when I was 5 years old, in the early 2000's. Only saw the layout, never saw the train. Grandad (the one who brought the track down) never saw fit to take pictures for me to see how it was originally to rebuild it. Only thing I ever remembered was that it had a horse car (turned out he had outfit 1567W), and found out it had a crossing and 6 switches. Figure 8 with cut offs and passing siding, based on some old plan sketches in the set box. Chose to do something different when I built my layout, but still 1950's style

Public or private, discussion or help, the question was also an invitation if you wish El C .

Wohttp://www.pinoytvchannel.org/2016/02/alisto-february-1-2016-watch-online.html, , I like the ways he builder did the layout. I would clean it up..a little modernization with fast track...

Nice layout, I look forward to some progress pictures of it.  Lot's of sidings etc, may be some good room for various accessories.

Here is the track plan that layout is based off of. Mine copy came from the 1958 Lionel catalogue. Yours appears to have been expanded with an extra siding and some straight track sections to a 6'x8' layout.

Adriatic posted:

Public or private, discussion or help, the question was also an invitation if you wish El C .

My great uncle's track plan is above, the one on the right. He did not have the siding he planned on his layout however.

El Classico posted:

Here is the track plan that layout is based off of. Mine copy came from the 1958 Lionel catalogue. Yours appears to have been expanded with an extra siding and some straight track sections to a 6'x8' layout.

I  definitely can see how my layout plan is related to this one.

Jeff

Just got an email back from the relatives who saw the layout. Seems that there was very little scenery, and that no photos exist of it. Ah well.

How goes the battle with the layout?

A Clean Slate:

My plans for this old layout have changed. As Ace suggested in his post, I am just starting over. The layout was too wide, at 6'. It was very difficult to reach anything in the middle. So, I have cut it down to 5' wide to make an 8'x5' table. I reinforced the framework with some new lumber and additional screws, then added a layer of Homasote to the top.

 A large part of the original track had severe rust and could not be cleaned up. I have plenty of Lionel tubular track to start over with. All the wiring insulation  was brittle, and none of the switches showed any life. I did find that the ZW transformer works fine.

 So, after ripping everything off , I now have a clean slate to work with. I think I will use a very similar track plan, although with less trackage. That will leave more room for buildings/accessories. I have promised my grandson we will have at least some track down and a train running by Thanksgiving.

Here are photos of the original, and of the "clean slate".

I painted the framework this weekend, painted the homasote a "dirt" color, and installed a "crashboard" around the edge. My grandson likes to run trains fast, and I do not want derailed trains falling all the way to the garage floor. The "crashboard" may prevent that. I hope. Might lay track tomorrow, at least place it on the board to see if my plan fits.

Today I have finished the track laying, done very basic wiring, and ran my first train. Not fancy, but ready for my grandson to run trains on Thanksgiving day. Much more work to come later on.

Mowingman,

I think you are doing a great rehabilitation job on that old layout!  Your grandson will love it, and when he sees it next time, it will be even better!

Looks great! Congratulations.  Did you end up using that particular green color (Behr) we were discussing in another thread? At least I think it was your layout.  

Thanks for the compliments. Since my grandson would rather run trains, than switch cars out of sidings, I designed this little layout so 3 trains can run at the same time. If he retains his interest in trains later, I may change the trackplan to have some sidings instead of the two small loops.

Johnstrains: Yes, we were discussing those paint colors here a while back. I ended up using some Sherwin Williams colors, since their store is only a few blocks from my house, and I have an account there. The green used on the benchwork, is a Sherwin Williams color called "#6925 Envy". It is almost a perfect match to the color of the base on an old Lionel block signal I took to the paint store with me.

 For the earth color, I used Sherwin Williams "#045 Antiquarian Brown". There are so many "earth colors", you just have to pick what appeals to you. This one caught my eye.

Jeff

mowingman posted:

Johnstrains: Yes, we were discussing those paint colors here a while back. I ended up using some Sherwin Williams colors, since their store is only a few blocks from my house, and I have an account there. The green used on the benchwork, is a Sherwin Williams color called "#6925 Envy". It is almost a perfect match to the color of the base on an old Lionel block signal I took to the paint store with me.

 For the earth color, I used Sherwin Williams "#045 Antiquarian Brown". There are so many "earth colors", you just have to pick what appeals to you. This one caught my eye.

Jeff

 

Jeff, It looks great!  Yes, I know that block signal green. Those of us with PW-style layouts/accessories see it in our sleep!   

Holidays, grandkids, and trains! This is what it is all about to me.