Princeton Model Railroad The Gateway to the Coalfields

Updating my info as a few decisions have had to been made. As I really wanted Scaletrax due to solid rail, rail height and looks I have decided to go with Gargraves and Ross switched due to availability. I have been having a hard time getting all my scaletrax from one location and availability of parts, I have a dealer closer to me who carries Gar/Ross instock. Thus saying I have updated my scarm file and picture to reflect the change over to the new track info.

I would love some input to my design, thanks in advance

Can you give us the diameter of the curves?   Looks like fun with 3 independent routes and a engine facility.   The train route connections will add fun and interest, as will the reversing option with the wyes.

How will you access the very back of the layout?

Visually, some curves are much tighter than others, you should think about (if you haven't already) the minimum diameter for each route, which of course determines what you can run.   Can you make the outer loop all O72 or larger?

I appreciate the high speed crossovers.  What are the turnouts for those?

Thanks for your reply, the benchwork is center of room with outside walls filled with cases of models and other railroad stuff so I can walk completely around with 39" clearance. I will have at least 2 access panels in the center region so I can get to the middle with my Trex arms. The outside radius is 080 and 072 with 1 096 at bottom left. My goal is to have no radius tighter than 072 yet my drawing reflects some tighter turns, the problem is that transfering this layout to Scarm software I cant get it to go the way I want it to lay so it looks odd.

Those turnouts are 2 RH#6 and 2 LH #6

My layout is smack dab in the middle of a railroad museum so I have plenty of real parts on had to model and share detail with others interested.

Hi The Salty.  Looks cool to me.  The only thing I don't like from the bird's eye view is the way the switches come together in the center forming the smallish circle to the left.  It may be more visually appealing to have a crossover there, probably a 45.  Eliminate the two switches and it doesn't change your ability to change directions with reversing loops.  Play with the switch locations till it works.  

Good layout for scenic opportunities.  Especially a structure builder.  Can have a pretty nice town and some cool industries to service. I like it!  I hope you build it.

Hi Salty,

I like it. So, are you ok working with flex or would you prefer to cut sectional track?

I can see your dilemma with inside loop(s) curves trying to fit 072.

I usually fit a layout with sectional track and use the snip function to cut them. Then, if you want to build with flex you can get the radius and arc angles from the sectional pieces. You can also bend as you build, if you do it that way. The sectionals act as a guide for me in the design process.

Have you discovered the train simulator? Extensions menu at the top. Let's run the layout and get a feel for it.

The curves behind the coal area only have a center of ~ 4.25". 4.5" is usually the tightest you want to use for O and 5"-6" is good for mainlines if you will operate any articulated engines or 21" passenger cars.

I have fit the corner on the low left with cut sectionals. It almost 3" to the edge of the table now.

I was thinking about the yard area perhaps being for rolling stock only or the building being removable. It looks like a natural Inglenook that could provide some entertainment for visitors during a supervised session.

I think you have a good ratio of track to scenery space to make it attractive.

Let me know your track preference and I'll try some things in the middle to maintain O72. SCARM file attached.

Ok,

Here's a plan showing three O72 circles in the center. You can fit all O72 but the 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock area (yard & Station) needs a redesign to make room. I believe the solution is to create a 22.5° angle across there. The GG sectional is all 30°.

Thanks Moonman for your input and time. I like the changes with the sectional track. I like to work with flex track but I understand using the sectionals for design purposes, I don't mind working with either one for the actual build. The yard design I don't care for so much, I am trying to keep enough room between tracks to have workmen do stuff but space is limited.Trying to represent the Princeton West virginia rail shops on this size layout is not easy.

The second photo in my top post shows why I have a big space between the ovals and the yard I am trying to create a very small stream through that area. I need a water feature and may be better served in the center of the left oval as one of our local lakes "Lake Shawnee"

The train simulator is a very cool feature and has been a big help in trying to get a smooth operation. I just got permission to extend the layout 6 inches on the right side of the layout so that will give more room between those coal yard curves. Those coal yard curves I plan to have tunnel under a mountain.

You can make your original plan work easily.  Take my advice and do a crossover with the tracks at a gentler angle instead of the switches jammed up in the middle.  It will be a nice visual effect in the middle of your town.  If the curves are too tight together on the RH side you just shorten the straights in the middle to fit.  Sheesh!  Even if you are using sectional track you can cut it to fit.  I don't get the way you scarm guys think.  They make this neat little tool called a Dremel with a cutoff wheel.  I've said this before.  You buy your switches, curves with a couple extra, long straights with a couple extra and you put it together, cutting to fit.  Use flex when necessary, but it can be tricky to lay out nice.  You don't have to have every inch of track figured out with a computer plan, because when you go to lay it out in the real world it will be different.

Yesterday I started work and first things on the list are flooring protection but that will happen next week when that stretchy plastic shows up. Deconstruction of the benchwork begins, it doesn't look that bad however it's falling apart and the grade is over 4% more on that later. I will post a couple pictures of what I have so far.

Here we are track removed, glue scraped off and a clean slate to start fresh.

A sample of things to come and a view outside my window

This benchwork is the result of the last guy they paid to come build the model. The bench is half in ply with 1 x 4 framework. Basically it is 6 ~  4 x 8 tables crudely bolted together not leveled. There is no support at the 4ft end of the plywood and only 3 screws in the field for the 1 x 4 supports running the 8' so there is much warping and the 1.25" screws did not offer adequate holding power so it is basically falling apart. The elevation parts of the track and the cork roadbed were glued down with liquid nails project, liquid nails is a good product when used properly. Most of the cork had come loose as the plywood surface was never scuffed with sand paper and looked to be dirty at time of install. Parts of the elevated track were build with wafer board and cork glued to the slick side, I can tell you that bonding was about 20% and the wafer board expanded with humidity and buckled.

The great news is now I have a fresh slate to work with. I will start by roughly laying out track I purchased to see where I can add to the bench and to get some ideas on my elevations and scenic configurations. Scarm is awesome but I am a hands on kind of guy and will get my artistic building vision once my hands get dirty.

The last two pictures are looking out our back window over the tracks, the last one is looking west to where the Princeton shops used to be.

God Bless and I'll add more as progress goes.

Looking good. Going with the Ross track on the layout looks like a good idea.

Salty,

hey! nice work to get the clean slate! I would be tempted to put another layer of 1/2" on top of that or a layer of Soundboard 440 from Home Depot.(Homosote) It will make it quiet.

Anyway, here's how your final fits on that table. You need a 3' x 6', angle cut, to fill in the elbow of the L . You may want to try to adjust the straights to the right wall to avoid having to extend the end.

SCARM file attached.

Thanks MOONMAN for your input it is a big help. My main objective is to maintain a minimum of 39" aisle around the benchwork to give wheelchair access and good working space. I will be filling in that L from the bottom left inside corner to the bottom right roughly the joint on that last bottom section of track. I will also be able to extend the table to the right by 12" and still maintain 42" walk space. I will be using homasote as a base layer then build up with foam I will also be adding a lot of structural support and sort of rebuilding that bench. I would love multiple elevations with the track but I believe I can create that illusion with building it up then carving out valleys and building up mountains. First thing I am going to do is roughly lay on the track then make final bench rework plans from that. There is a possibility that I "May" take the bottom left of the L and tear drop it to the floor line to create a nice mountain as you enter the room? That depends on how the funding for this goes and would be extra.

Concerning elevations, ever one is telling me I need lots of up and down to make it look like a mountain range. I beg to differ, The Virginia railroad was built from Princeton to Norfolk with only 3% grade.

Sounds like you're on top of it. Having mountains around the track will look like the area. You could create scenic divide with only 14" of height of a layered foam mountain.

My Dad used to live in Princeton WV.  I would visit every Summer.  This was many years ago but this thread scratched my memory banks.  I remember passing the railyard on the way to his place but not a whole lot more.