Have you Ever bought a lemon, when you first started

all the ....make it......hard..... to follow what your .....trying to....say.... :|

thanks jim. i will correct that sir.

have you ever?

I recommend that you stay away from "fixer upper" purchases until you gain more experience.  It sounds as if the seller told you this engine had major problems before you bought it.  Therefore, it wasn't a true "lemon".  A "lemon" is usually something that you purchase new or near new and you expect it to work right out of the box without any repairs.

I have bought a few engines that did have problems.  I sent them back to the manufacturer for repairs because they were under warranty and they were properly fixed.

NH Joe

I have steered clear of "as is" and restoration candidate merchandise from the start.  As you are learning, cheaper is not always less expensive.

What, me worry? 

A long time ago I purchased a Lionel starter set with a shorted piece of tubular track in it. If I was a newcomer that would have turned me off to trains forever. Luckily I knew what I was doing!

Other than that , The only lemon I can remember was the infamous Lionel Lackawanna Northern engine, which after many years I finally got  straightened out!

Jdaddy, I literally chuckled out loud (COL) when I read your post.

Well Miggy, your story I think is fairly common for folks first jumping back into the hobby. I don't fault anyone who does train repairs, that they are also entitled to make a living. So if you don't want to pay, you learn to do the repairs yourself.

When I got back into the hobby, one of the first things I bought was a Lionel repair manual. I also bought used locomotives from either a local dealer who could test run it for me, or at a train show where I could also see it run. If I'm buying on line from someone I don't know, I want to read the words "this has been tested and works." Or "this has been tested and works except for the smoke unit." I also want see the engine photographed from all sides including the bottom side. That gives me a better idea what I'm getting. It's not a guarantee, but a step in the right direction as someone has gone to the extra effort to assure the potential buyer. If not, oh well, I can wait.

I also made myself an informed train consumer... even more important today than 30 years ago. I also practiced consumer etiquette. Why should a dealer answer my questions, if I don't buy anything from his store? Again, no guarantees. But you're more likely positive results by being positive yourself. If it fails to work, that's okay. There are others who will be happy to have my business.

You made mention of  "affordable price range." Well, that's where I'm at. I tend to buy products that share common parts. Which means bigger production runs, meaning more were sold, meaning there's more of them out there on the secondary market, meaning there's justification for parts, even reproduction parts. If parts are in short supply for an item, if it has common parts, you can buy another one and cob parts that you need.

When I wanted a postwar steam engine I asked around and was told the 2018 didn't have as many features and therefore wasn't priced like more desirable postwar locos, yet it is a solid reliable performer. I got one in good shape at a fair market price and was quite pleased.

When I first got back into the hobby, Lionel 4-4-2's were the standard in many affordable starter sets. All mine still work to this day. K-Line was making their S-2, Alco FA and MP-15... my favorite engines. Yet I noticed they started up running like jack rabbits... a common complaint. I asked my dealer and he told me "You need to rewire the motors or run them with the right transformer. The Lionel 1033 at the B-U setting will be perfect you. I have one that's serviced, works and for sale." I paid a little more, but I also got what I paid for from a reputable dealer. And I never looked back: The 1033 is my transformer of choice.

Buying a set, I got the engine, cars, more track and an extra transformer which I could use for accessories. At the time, it was all 027 track, which is what I am using so there was no loss. Even today, you can still find these sorts of sets for sale at very reasonable prices. Even with the FasTrack sets, buying a couple of these with an add-on pack is still an affordable way to get a good start. But that also depends on your tastes: Top line sets are usually more expensive.

So I guess I'm what you could call a happy camper.

I'm not into all the digital effects or scale items. For me, they're just not Lionel. For me, the magic of Lionel is pretend. And between all the various companies over the many decades, the trains I like were made and sold in the multiple hundred's of thousands if not millions. I believe the recent scale and digital trend have contributed to lower prices- at least on the secondary market... Menards being the exception now.

But I don't fault anyone for liking what they like. There are guys on this forum that truly impress me with their knowledge of all the various digital features being used in the trains today - and how they help other people having problems. BUT guys here like Marty Fitzhenry, gunrunner john, GGG and many others also had to invest the time, money and effort to learn about these things. Just like the guys who are knowledgeable about postwar and MPC era Lionel trains.

So regardless of what you like, the most important thing is to ask questions first. And in order to not get a plethora of opinions, you need to make your questions pointed and specific. Again, not at a guarantee, but a step in the right direction to getting helpful answers.

You can read many posts on here from guys that have bought NEW high-end locos that were crap right out of the box. Those are lemons! Your old loco is at least repairable and when fixed should give you years of enjoyment.

Thanks Daniel, I was not seeing the big picture.... This one will be my first....and always my time with my grandsons  :-)

 Brianel K line guy, Thanks. you have a very nice style of sharing your story. I looked at how to fix a smoke unit on utube...... it was on a VISION 7000 e.... (YIKES)

I appreciate all the great folks here. Thank you!

One of my first big purchases was a museum quality 1939 SP Mikado.  Drivers were out of quarter, and rods were all screwed up.  Fixing that was an education that has benefitted me many times over - I can fix anything now, including unequal crankpin throw.

thanks Bob2. Book on repairing is on order. teaching old brain new stuff.

appreciate your encouragement

2- Williams early brass scale Hudson's. Clunkers right from the start. Flywheels probably would have helped but I think they would have still been dogs.

First engine I ever purchased many years back, a PW Turbine, at a huge train show from a TCA member. No test track but he said it smoked great and the whistle worked. Got it home, barely ran and no smoke nor whistle. I took the tender apart, no brushes/springs in the whistle motor...

Friend took the engine apart and the smoke unit was full with a volcanic mass of former smoke pellets. We cleaned both motors, replaced the brushes and springs, lubed it, new liquid smoke unit and it finally ran! Got some Williams heavyweight Madison cars to make a train and gave it away with a ZW to a young Marine and his family. 

Don't feel bad.  It's sometimes the luck of the draw.  Many of us, even well into our tenures as model railroaders, acquired merchandise that did not meet our expectations, whether new or used.  The key is to know when to admit our mistakes and not throw good money after bad.  Some turn the duds into shelf queens; others just save them for parts.  Then there are some that just won't let go.  I know someone (hint:  he drives my car, lives in my house and is married to my wife) who has a one-time issue Modern Era locomotive that originally cost $150 now "worth" $650 after repairs and upgrades.   

Been lucky so far. Got back into the hobby last year buying used stuff from a certain online auction site. Some minor repairs along the way but I definitely look for words like "tested, runs, etc.  Running post war to MPC. 

Bob

As with any purchase, the first most important thing to obtain is information.  Sorting through all of the information on the web can be a daunting task for a new comer. I recommend you look into clubs in your area.  The wealth of information in the members is tremendous and you might just make a new friend.  When I got back into Lionel trains 30 years ago, I was fortunate to have two friends who were long time train collectors to guide and advise me.   The best piece of advice they gave me is to wait 6 months or so before buying anything to give my self a chance to learn about this hobby.  In the end they were right, at the end of the 6 month waiting period they took me to a big train meet in Atlanta and I was ready to buy trains.

Good luck and enjoy sharing with your grandkids.  My 5 year old grandson loves trains and we run them together every day.

Rolland

"...museum quality 1939 SP Mikado."

Yeah, "museum quality" is, about 50% of the time, code for "needs work, I can't fix it, you wanna try?".  

Lemons happen along even for those of us who have bought way too many things, over the years. Common sense and experience minimize, but do not eliminate, it.

Everything I have bought has worked out of the box.

 The only thing I had trouble with was a crank pin that came loose on my RailKing Imperial USRA 0-6-0 after running it a short time and I had a hard time getting the wheels re-quartered.

All other problems were caused by "pilot error".  I took my NW2 apart once and ended up with an intermittent short, found a single strand of wire touching ground (had to use a magnifier to find it).

Back in the 80's when there were train shows every weekend from August through Feb in the NY/NJ metro area I bought a lionel #60 trolley that I should have and did not test at the show.  Lesson learned about train show vendors.  Got it home, it didn't run.  Show already ended, no vendor name.  Opened it up to find the gear attached to the axle completely stripped.  I mean it was smooth.  The motor however was fine.  I made a trip to Madison hardware many months later, purchased the correct part, was growled at by one of the owners (I learned years later what a treat that was) and repaired the trolley.  It taught me how to pull a wheel, and more importantly how to get it back on in the proper gauge with virtually no real tools at the time.  Still have the critter although it sees little track time.

NECRAILS,

great advice. Good story, I will keep learning, and bond with the critters! I appreciate ya

Not an unusual story at all.  My first serious purchase in O was the original MTH scale GG1 that lasted me all of 10 minutes on the track because I was not aware of some of the known problems with some of the early ProtoSounds boards, was using a Lionel Z (not ZW) to power it and didn't realize how they had such incredible power spikes.  As people have mentioned it pays to do your homework.  

I wasn't new to the hobby but my total lemon was this Williams brass New York Central. It didn't move...ever.  Just didn't work. Never has moved under its own power. On top of that it literally started falling apart. Almost every time I picked it up something fell off. If someone wants the beauty I will sell it for $25 plus shipping. LOL runs like a top. Don

Alfred E Neuman posted:

I have steered clear of "as is" and restoration candidate merchandise from the start.  As you are learning, cheaper is not always less expensive.

This is outstanding advice for any hobby!

LOL...You missed you're calling, Don. BTW, I just finished watching 'Used Cars.'

Joh, my dad didn't, he sold used cars. A few even ran LOL Don

Don, the apple must not fall far from the tree...LOL...will you offer a refund?

scale rail posted:

I wasn't new to the hobby but my total lemon was this Williams brass New York Central. It didn't move...ever.  Just didn't work. Never has moved under its own power. On top of that it literally started falling apart. Almost every time I picked it up something fell off. If someone wants the beauty I will sell it for $25 plus shipping. LOL runs like a top. Don

D500's description of 'Museum Quality' above fits perfectly here. It has to just sit somewhere, not move and can't be touched. You should be asking at least $5,000 for this thing!!! 

scale rail posted:

I wasn't new to the hobby but my total lemon was this Williams brass New York Central. It didn't move...ever.  Just didn't work. Never has moved under its own power. On top of that it literally started falling apart. Almost every time I picked it up something fell off. If someone wants the beauty I will sell it for $25 plus shipping. LOL runs like a top. Don

Hello scale rail.

I am INTERESTED !!!!!!!

"But some of the seed fell on good ground.. There it grew and made grain. Some plants make 100 times more grain, some 60 times more , and some 30 times more. You people who hear me, listen !" Matthew 13:8-9 (ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Tiffany you can have it. I'm guessing about $20/25 for shipping. It's not heavy but big. I'm guessing the motor most likely works but what ever that thing in the tender is why it never ran. You will have to soldier some parts back on. Don

scale rail posted:

Tiffany you can have it. I'm guessing about $20/25 for shipping. It's not heavy but big. I'm guessing the motor most likely works but what ever that thing in the tender is why it never ran. You will have to soldier some parts back on. Don

hello scale rail........

I just pay for the shipping that's all ? I will send the money order of 25 dollars tomorrow by mail.  I will need your mailing address.  I will send a e-mail in few minutes.

" True love is God's love for us, not our love for God.. He sent his son as a way to take away our sins." 1 John 4:10 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

Here is a picture of my "lemon". It's been back at Lionel twice now, currently it's been there for over 6 weeks. My first BTO purchase might be my last until confidence builds back up with regards to the manufacturing. I have had a lot of success purchasing form fellow forum members. 

No, it will be $25 for the engine/tender and $20/25 for shipping. If it's less I will let you know. Turns out there is only one piece you need to re-soldier. I found the engine and tender. Now the hard part I need to find the cow catcher. I remember packing it so it's here somewhere in my train collection. It's like new. The can motor is huge so when you get it running it should run well. Don't send any money now, let me find the front in the morning. I will see how much shipping is. The paint on the tender is fine, it's just a reflection from the tap on the box.  Don

scale rail posted:

No, it will be $25 for the engine/tender and $20/25 for shipping. If it's less I will let you know. Turns out there is only one piece you need to re-soldier. I found the engine and tender. Now the hard part I need to find the cow catcher. I remember packing it so it's here somewhere in my train collection. It's like new. The can motor is huge so when you get it running it should run well. Don't send any money now, let me find the front in the morning. I will see how much shipping is. The paint on the tender is fine, it's just a reflection from the tap on the box.  Don

Hello scale rail

I hope you have the front end (cow catcher) for this engine.  I just send e-mail about 15 minutes ago.

"Then Mary said, I praise the lord with all my heart. I am very happy because God is my Savior." Luke 1:46-47 ERV (Easy to Read Version)

Tiffany

scale rail posted:

I wasn't new to the hobby but my total lemon was this Williams brass New York Central. It didn't move...ever.  Just didn't work. Never has moved under its own power. On top of that it literally started falling apart. Almost every time I picked it up something fell off. If someone wants the beauty I will sell it for $25 plus shipping. LOL runs like a top. Don

Yep thats one of them, that and it's mate the unshrouded version.

I take the lemon & make lemonade!!!

Steam Forever

     John

Interesting topic. Buying used trains is always a crap shoot I figure. Heck, even buying brand new trains is a crap shoot, as mentioned! They may or may not work as intended.

I guess I have been pretty lucky with both. Most new trains have worked well right out of the box. And even most used ones worked pretty well and only needed a minor tweak or cosmetic fixup or two to meet my expectations. On the other side of the scorecard there have been a couple that were completely misrepresented, or misinterpreted (by me), and were essentially junk. They hit the dumpster pretty quickly because I would have been too embarrassed to even TRY to sell them.  I should mention here that none of these latter instances were a result of dealing with sellers on this forum. Folks on this forum tend to tell it like it is in my experience.

Rod

nice! thanks