Home Depot Soundboard Questions

If you're talking about the brown-colored sound board, it works but it doesn't really hold screws well as it isn't as dense as Homasote. The surface is fairly porous as well, so gluing cork roadbed to it is tricky as well.

One theory I had but didn't test was using it between a 1/8" sheet of plywood and a 1/2" sheet with the track screws going into the thin sheet and the sound board and the sound board bonded to the 1/2" with caulk. The vibrations from the 1/8" would be absorbed by the sound board and the 1/2" would support everything.

given it is only 3 sheets, I would go with the Homasote.

They also say " you get what you pay for".

Thanks Matt, that's the feedback I was looking for and seals the deal for Homasote. My main concern was gluing the cork to it and it holding nails or screws. There is a product known as Celotex, something closer to Homasote in density, etc., but I've been unable to find it locally. I could make the 2-hr drive to a building materials store that carries it, but the cost in gas for my truck would negate any savings.

tr18 posted:

They also say " you get what you pay for".

I knew someone was going to say that............and you're right. 

Dave 

The Home Depot near me didn't carry Homasote until after I made my purchase of a produce called Soundboard (I think that is the name) from another chain of smaller stores called ProBuilders. It was about a third to a quarter of the price of Homasote. I find it to be great. I never compared the density but it holds my track screws just fine. Plus, if you ballast the ballast will hold the track too so it's less of a deal. I have not ballasted my track and they do not move. 

Just my $.02. 

Mike

I used the HD Soundboard.  I used 3M spray adhesive to put green felt on it, and am using Elmer's wood glue to glue my cork to that.  The cork has stayed in place no issues.  I haven't screwed my Atlas track down yet as I still need to wire, but it's stayed on top of the cork as I've run trains just fine.

I used the soundboard for about 10 years and the screws are still holding. Homosote was available about 65 miles away and about 36 a sheet, so I settled for soundboard. I used homosote on my HO layout in the 80s. If you are building in a high humidity area, I would use homosote!

Bob 

Darn, I thought I had this settled with Matt's reply, but maybe I acted in haste as others seem to have had better luck with Home Depot's Soundboard.

Mike and Sinclair, did you glue the SB to the plywood with plain old Elmer's glue?

Mike, did you also add cork or is the track directly on the SB?

Sinclair, I kind of like the idea of the felt, I hadn't though about what I'll do for landscaping other than a winter/early spring scene. I could use green on the upper village level and tan for the lower desert countryside level. I'd then sprinkle fake snow around to only partially cover the ground. The buildings that will be on display all have snow or Christmas decorations on them (the Bedford Falls collection Target had several years ago).

Thanks for the replies.

Bob, not much humidity here in Phoenix. That's partly why I figured the cheaper SB might work okay. I guess it might be worth $40 to try it for myself. The worst that can happen is I don't like it and have to scrape it off and sand the plywood before replacing it with Homasote.

My vote is for Homosote. Hands down. There is a dollar value to agravation, which is inherent in the alternative. Considering the other costs in the hobby the slight additional costs with Homosote are insignificant.

I used Homasote  and it has worked great. I used liquid nails and screws to hold in place, then painted it a light brown.  I painted it so the homasote doesn't absorb all the glue when ballasting and adding grass.  My vote homasote.  Good luck Doubledaz with the new layout.

Mike

Thanks Tommy and Mike, I'm still leaning in that direction. I'm sure the SB would work okay, but I'm not sure yet how I'm going to do the landscaping and I'm confident there won't be any surprises with Homasote. Plus there are a lot of members here who can advise me on how best to do things when I do get to the landscaping stage. Never hurts to get contrasting opinions though.

I used Liquid Nails (or the cheap HD version, I don't remember.) to glue the SB to the plywood.  I just did a ring near the edge and one X in the middle and drove a couple screws in place to hold it down.  Once the LN was set/dry I removed the screws and the SB hasn't moved.

As for the green felt, it was a quick way to add textured greenery.  My layout will not be very realistic, but I did want it nice looking, and the felt looks better than paint, in my mind's eye.  I'd rather use some astroturf but you can't glue cork to that (But it works great for FasTrack and other plastic roadbed track, or if you are just putting the track down on the ground without a roadbed.) so I went with the felt.  And I have no plans to ballast the track.

Even if I go with Homasote, I was thinking too that the felt adds a texture that paint doesn't and that's all I might need for what we're doing. Trouble is I need to make a decision before I permanently lay the cork and track. My plan is to get the decking done for the lower lever and then lay out the track temporarily to see where I'm at. At this point, I hadn't planned on adding ballast either.

I have had 60 years of positive experience with Homasote and will go out of my way to obtain it.  The closest dealer is 100 miles from here and there is no guarantee that they'll have it in stock.. 

The last time I bought some was two years ago almost to the day.  900 miles one-way.  My brother an I drove to his local Home Depot with a new box cutter and split 4 sheets ($25 per sheet) in half.  They fit nicely in the back of my SUV.

If you can get it; use it.

Jan

P.S. Hit 13 train shops on the way home.

Sounds like my kind of road trip, Jan.

Homosote at my local Home Depot in Baltimore is $28.65.  National Lumber has it for $25.00 a sheet.  Guess I know where I'll be shopping.

wild mary posted:

Homosote at my local Home Depot in Baltimore is $28.65.  National Lumber has it for $25.00 a sheet.  Guess I know where I'll be shopping.

Same price $28.65 here on Long Island

Unfortunately, HD doesn't seem to carry it here in the Phoenix area, though I suppose I could ask if they can order it.

We used that brown sound board from HD at $10 a sheet on our low level track because it was cheap and we couldnt find Homasote.

It sucked! Too soft, easy breaks, and doesn't hold spikes or screws. Like they say, ya get what ya pay for .

We found a lumber store about 35 miles away that we could order Homasote from for $36 a sheet. We got 6 or 8 sheets and never looked back.

Lesson learned, although we already knew that...just tried the cheap easy way and hope it worked out. It didn't.

I don't believe I have ever seen "Sound board" and I have been in the trades for forty-five years.  Unless it was known by another name.  The only thing I can think of that might be close would be accuostic ceiling tiles.  If they were made in 4' x 8' sheets, I would see why they wouldn't be very good for holding screws or even glue.  I looked up sound board at Home Depot's site and found it for $28.65 in Willow Grove.   But the description isn't precise enough to understand what it is.  If the guys that said the cost was somewhere around $10.00 - $12.00, then it must be something else they are buying.

We built a high end house in Phoenix that had that sound board on the floors. It really made the house quiet. You couldn't hear people walking around the second floor above you.

 I did not handle the stuff though.

Snowbird, Joe?

DoubleDAZ posted:

Snowbird, Joe?

I wish. My family had moved out there in the early eighties. I followed a few years later. I ended up back in NY around five years after that.

I just couldn't find a good job out there. I did learn a lot about construction though.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Darn, I thought I had this settled with Matt's reply, but maybe I acted in haste as others seem to have had better luck with Home Depot's Soundboard.

Mike and Sinclair, did you glue the SB to the plywood with plain old Elmer's glue?

Mike, did you also add cork or is the track directly on the SB?

Sinclair, I kind of like the idea of the felt, I hadn't though about what I'll do for landscaping other than a winter/early spring scene. I could use green on the upper village level and tan for the lower desert countryside level. I'd then sprinkle fake snow around to only partially cover the ground. The buildings that will be on display all have snow or Christmas decorations on them (the Bedford Falls collection Target had several years ago).

Thanks for the replies.

 

I purchased Elmer's glue by the gallon, poured it on the plywood, spread it out with a paint roller and placed the soundboard on top of it. I did fasten the two together with Sheetrock screws along the seams.

My track is fastened directly to the soundboard with screws. I did slide pieces of 1/4"X1/2" pine under the tinplate O gauge track ties cut to length with a little Elmer's glue, mainly to hide the gap under the ties but it does help with the screws. 

Mike

ezmike posted:

DoubleDAZ posted:

Darn, I thought I had this settled with Matt's reply, but maybe I acted in haste as others seem to have had better luck with Home Depot's Soundboard.

Mike and Sinclair, did you glue the SB to the plywood with plain old Elmer's glue?

Mike, did you also add cork or is the track directly on the SB?

Sinclair, I kind of like the idea of the felt, I hadn't though about what I'll do for landscaping other than a winter/early spring scene. I could use green on the upper village level and tan for the lower desert countryside level. I'd then sprinkle fake snow around to only partially cover the ground. The buildings that will be on display all have snow or Christmas decorations on them (the Bedford Falls collection Target had several years ago).

Thanks for the replies.

 

I purchased Elmer's glue by the gallon, poured it on the plywood, spread it out with a paint roller and placed the soundboard on top of it. I did fasten the two together with Sheetrock screws along the seams.

My track is fastened directly to the soundboard with screws. I did slide pieces of 1/4"X1/2" pine under the tinplate O gauge track ties cut to length with a little Elmer's glue, mainly to hide the gap under the ties but it does help with the screws. 

Mike

I used liquid nails and screws for the homasote and the track is screwed down to the homasote. I used n scale cork bed (split down the middle)  and ran it along side the atlas track for a lower profile.

Mike

Tommy posted:

My vote is for Homosote. Hands down. There is a dollar value to agravation, which is inherent in the alternative. Considering the other costs in the hobby the slight additional costs with Homosote are insignificant.

This is absolutely true!  

However, something else to consider: weight.  If you are building a permanent layout, weight isn't really an issue (except for where you have to lug the panels).  But if you are building a temporary layout that you will need to move and or store, you want light weight for sure.  

The quarter inch plywood over Soundboard is something i may try for my next go around with a temp layout.  I am thinking contact cement for adhesive though. 

I love all the ideas that come from these threads!

Tony

Tony, even though my layout will be permanent, weight is a consideration because the layout will be on wheels so I can move it out of the cornet for maintenance. However, I'm not sure how much difference there is between SB and Homasote.

ezmike posted: 

I purchased Elmer's glue by the gallon, poured it on the plywood, spread it out with a paint roller and placed the soundboard on top of it. I did fasten the two together with Sheetrock screws along the seams.

I'd only screw the soundboard or Homasote to the plywood until the glue dries and then remove the screws. I assume your track screws only went into the SB and not into the plywood below it.

Michael Pellegrino posted:

 

I used liquid nails and screws for the homasote and the track is screwed down to the homasote. I used n scale cork bed (split down the middle)  and ran it along side the atlas track for a lower profile.

I'll have to look through your posts to see if there's a photo of that. Did you remove the screws after the glue dried?

DoubleDAZ posted:

Tony, even though my layout will be permanent, weight is a consideration because the layout will be on wheels so I can move it out of the cornet for maintenance. However, I'm not sure how much difference there is between SB and Homasote.

It's been a while since I've handled a sheet of homasote, but I seem to remember it was quite heavy.  Of course it's mass is part of why it is so good at sound absorbing.  I haven't handled Soundboard, but I am thinking 1/4" ply with Soundboard attached will be lighter.  Again, it would be a trade-off: more work, less cost, weight savings(?).

Since I haven't done it, I can't recommend it but it's worth looking at IMHO.

The key is, as others have said, be sure whatever you use, the screws that hold the track down don't penetrate through to the sub decking.  The screws will transfer sound right through whatever you use as a sound insulator.

Tony

Dave, 

Living in Phoenix should give you no problems with the sound board. I have used it over 3/4 plywood, and 1/2 wafer board with no issues. I live in a very low humidity area (Hemet,CA). I used gargraves screws and they are holding. I agree Homosote is far superior. Dennis Brennan's book details how he used n scale cork along atlas track. I have been picking up cheap boxes at train swap meets. Speaking of train swap meets, how is the TCA show in Phoenix?

Bob

Tony_V posted:

It's been a while since I've handled a sheet of homasote, but I seem to remember it was quite heavy.  Of course it's mass is part of why it is so good at sound absorbing.  I haven't handled Soundboard, but I am thinking 1/4" ply with Soundboard attached will be lighter.  Again, it would be a trade-off: more work, less cost, weight savings(?).

Since I haven't done it, I can't recommend it but it's worth looking at IMHO.

The key is, as others have said, be sure whatever you use, the screws that hold the track down don't penetrate through to the sub decking.  The screws will transfer sound right through whatever you use as a sound insulator.

1/4" & soundboard will definitely be lighter than 1/2" & Homasote. My Christmas layouts were done on rigid foam over a 12"x12" grid of 1x3s. I should have added a sheet of 1/4" plywood and widened the grid to 16"x16" or even 24"x24". I didn't know about soundboard at the time or I would have used that instead of the foam. Still, I was able to manhandle the 4x8 and 4x6 modules. Twice a year I had to move them out of the dining room and onto a 2x4 frame table in the garage so we had room for our family holiday get-togethers. The track was laid over white batting and all the other landscaping elements were removable. I actually left them off until I moved it into the garage before Thanksgiving and decorated the layout for Christmas. Where there's a will, there's a way.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Michael Pellegrino posted:

 

I used liquid nails and screws for the homasote and the track is screwed down to the homasote. I used n scale cork bed (split down the middle)  and ran it along side the atlas track for a lower profile.

I'll have to look through your posts to see if there's a photo of that. Did you remove the screws after the glue dried?

Dave,

 I didn't take photos of laying down the homasote. I did not take the screws out. At the time I was new to these hobby, so I left them in, in fear of the homasote warping. lol

Mike

CP BOB posted:

Living in Phoenix should give you no problems with the sound board. I have used it over 3/4 plywood, and 1/2 wafer board with no issues. I live in a very low humidity area (Hemet,CA). I used gargraves screws and they are holding. I agree Homosote is far superior. Dennis Brennan's book details how he used n scale cork along atlas track. I have been picking up cheap boxes at train swap meets. Speaking of train swap meets, how is the TCA show in Phoenix?

Unfortunately, I've never been to a train show in Phoenix, we always seem to be traveling. However, I am looking forward to the "World's Greatest Hobby" tour when it comes to town for the first time February 4-5, we will be home for that.

I'm intrigued about the N Scale cork that you and Mike mentioned. Is this the book you were referring to?

When you say Homasote is "far superior", what made you choose the soundboard? Cost? The fact that you have low humidity too? I'd prefer to use the soundboard simply because it's cheaper and I suspect it will work fine. I hesitate because I'm concerned about noise and I know the how well the Celotex works and presumably how Homasote may work even better. Had I not visited the layout with Celotex and GarGraves track last week, I would be using Homasote with Atlas track mostly because of the noise factor. I visited the layout mostly because I wanted to see for myself how quiet GarGraves can be. If there was another layout nearby using GarGraves with SB, I'd see if I could visit that.

It's not that I'm opposed to noise, but the layout will be in a bedroom down the hall from the family room and I'd prefer not to have to close the door of the relatively small room (nominally 10x21) to run trains. I need 3 sheets of whatever I decide to use, so it's a choice of spending $37.50 on a chance to save $70.

I also wanted to complete the bench work first and then order the track after Christmas. However, now that I've finalized the benchwork design, except for the final decision on SB vs Homasote, I plan to order the track and cork before then. That means I could possibly get at least 1 sheet of SB and temporarily lay a run of track/cork to see for myself what I can expect in the way of noise. I may be beating a dead horse worrying about it.

The other factor is that I wanted to be able to glue whatever I choose to the plywood and cut them together. I figure if I run them through the table saw plywood side up with the vac system running, I'll be able to minimize the dust and both layers would match the framing.

Michael Pellegrino posted:

I didn't take photos of laying down the homasote. I did not take the screws out. At the time I was new to these hobby, so I left them in, in fear of the homasote warping. lol

 

I was talking about the N Scale cork. If there are photos posted, I've probably seen them, but I need to see them again now that I'm close to beginning construction.

I've been told I just need a few dabs of glue in various locations, but I like the idea of spreading glue over the whole surface.

Dave,

Just my 2 cents, but you said you only needed 3 sheets for your layout, I would just get Homosote as you know it will do exactly what you want.  You later mentioned maybe you would get the soundboard, and if it did not work you would rip it out and put in homosote - that is no way to save money.

When I was at that stage in my layout I hunted down the local retailer that had Homosote (none of the big box guys) and yes it cost more, and in my case I needed 26 - 4x8 sheets - still less than some engines.  It worked exactly as advertised, and I have not looked back.

I believe Doug or some one else mentioned earlier - you get what you pay for, and in your case you are talking about three sheets, so about $100.  Just pull the trigger and be done with it and move on to building your layout IMO.

DoubleDAZ posted:

... relatively small room (nominally 10x21) to run trains.

That's bigger than my master bedroom, and only slightly smaller than the extra living room of my house that I put my trains in (And thus share with other things.).  I'd love to have a 'small' bedroom of that size to put just my trains in.

As for sound, my train room is right next to the dinning room and with trains running on my Atlas on cork on soundboard we can still talk at the dinner table.

DoubleDAZ posted:

ezmike posted: 

I purchased Elmer's glue by the gallon, poured it on the plywood, spread it out with a paint roller and placed the soundboard on top of it. I did fasten the two together with Sheetrock screws along the seams.

I'd only screw the soundboard or Homasote to the plywood until the glue dries and then remove the screws. I assume your track screws only went into the SB and not into the plywood below it.

Dave,

That is correct, the track screws do not touch the plywood at all. I could have removed the sheet rock screws from the soundboard but I covered them with joint compound and then painted the soundboard my base color. This was may first attempt at doing this so it was a learning process.

Mike