How to "Fix" Duplicate Car Numbers?

Terry Danks posted:

I find myself on the cusp or ordering a small slough of the box cars from the new Lionel catalog. Like perhaps 4 or so of the CPR PS-1 boxcars.

Two questions:

1. What does the "PS-1" mean?

If I recall correctly, "Pullman Standard series 1"

2. It might be difficult for me, OCD in somethings as I am, to live with duplicate car numbers. Any way for a "non-Master Modeler" to deal with this? Do people just follow a "don't look" philosophy?

I don't like duplicate road number either. Thus, I have my custom painter change one or more of the digits prior to weathering.

The hardest part will be finding a font that matches. Being OCD makes it even harder as few are exact matches.  Close doesn't count. The few cars I have done I replace the whole number which makes the change less noticeable if the font is close. Being house cars you will have to deal with the numbers on the ends as well as the sides.

Pete

Wait until your vision gets worse!  :-)  problem solved.  :-)

PS:  It bugs me too.  I change the number by weathering or complete "new" number, etc.

I ignore it, along with the five foot gauge track.  Well, not really - I often decal my own freight cars, and at that stage, it is trivial to put different numbers on.  I still don't read the numbers as they go by.

Same thing with passenger car windows.  When my passenger train rolls by, I do not count the windows on each car.

And I did fix the gauge/scale problem.  It is a lot of work.

What I have done for some H.O. train cars is to re-stencil or add a number over another, like make a 3 or 9 an 8, try to keep the first 2 numbers the same and re-stencil a 5 digit numbered car.

I have not re-stenciled any O gauge cars. Have bought some; MTH, RMT or Menards cars with different numbers on them.

Lee Fritz

Its easy if you have the decals or in this case dry transfers. Top is an original Weaver Car. The next two had the same number as the first but renumbered. In this case I just resprayed the gray and applied the transfers. The numbers on the end were carefully removed with lacquer thinner on a Q tip. The red does dissolve in lacquer thinner but a bit slower. Eventually all my Weaver cars will get black ladders and grabs.

Pete

Good work, Pete. I haven't re-numbered any rolling stock, but I've renumbered a few locomotives. With MTH, you can sand off the numbers with 1000-grit wet sand paper to remove the numbers without killing the paint. Then you can apply the decals.

The first units I did because I had ordered three GP35's with scale wheels. Unfortunately all three of them came as #1312. I changed the numbers on two of them to 1315 and 1318 as they both appeared on the roster and it left open the possibility of locating the other two numbers if they showed up on eBay. I was able to locate #1321 (one of the three numbers offered) so now I run them in pairs. I've been thinking of re-numbering 1315 and 1318 to 3315 and 3318 as Phase Ia (silver trucks).

These GP30's started out as units from a railroad I do not mention while engaged in my duties as the self-appointed Information Minister of the Isle of Denial.

After checking the roster, I corrected the erroneous numbers and removed the "tagging" from the cab sides.

The long-term plan for the GP30's is to fix the pilots and install Kadees.

In the case of this U25B, I had ordered a pair and later kicked myself for not ordering all three. I was able to track down another one on eBay, but it was a duplicate #6608. I sanded off the last digit and replaced it with #6609 after a roster check. For the number boards, removing and sanding off the paint, then using inverse-printed text on plain paper cut to size and glued on with clear Fix-All or Goop adhesive works well.

Weathering the units will further conceal the changes.

If you can read the road numbers, You aren't running them fast enough. Notch 8

Thanks for the many replies. I was not even aware that I would be faced with the numbers on the cars ends too!   It looks like they may be tougher to do than the main numbers on the sides.

Oh, curse you Lionel! Why did you not offer "packs" with 3 or 4 cars not carrying identical numbers for these offerings! (Actually, I'd like 6!)

I do not have the skill to wield an airbrush and renumber the cars entirely as Matt and Pete have done. I'd hate to make a mess of a car but may try "experimenting" with some dry transfers on a junker, allowing I can find suitable sizes. Again, the ends look tough!

Terry, its not too hard if 

A) you can find matching numbers

B) there turns out to be an easy way to remove the old number(s).

Most paint on plastic can be affected by lacquer thinner but some is more resistant. You can try some on the inside of the car to see how easy it comes off. If lacquer thinner does attack the base paint then there is always Matt's method using fine sandpaper. When I removed the numbers on the end of my cars the Q tip was dipped in lacquer thinner, then allowed to dry some until it was just damp. That allowed more control to just hit the numbers pulling back when I saw the Q tip turning red.

Pete

It looks like Lionel has started offering more road numbers and more sets in the latest catalog. I don't remember how many were available per car type, but more than one. I need to take a closer look at the new Lionel catalog, just skimmed through it the other day when I first noticed the sets. They had sets before, but they were like 3 cars or something and they didn't always have them in every catalog as I recall (could be wrong on that?). 

MTH has been doing this for some time with Premier freight cars. They usually offer several 6 packs of a few different types of freight car in each catalog. They usually offer 2 packs of 6 of each car type they have in the sets, all with different numbers. That's in addition to the 2 road numbers for each Premier freight car from the catalog, so you could get 14 different numbers total.

Well, I want these cars. It would be nice if Lionel made my life easier but they seem not to see that as their raison d'etre.

So, I'm preordering 6. By the time they actually get here, I might be so blind that the numbers will just be a blur anyhow. Can't say I've ever had a visitor remark, "Say, how come those cars all have the same number?"

But, of course, I'll know!

I won't lie, changing the end numbers SUCK! It's just a tedious consuming process. Done it too many times to want to remember.

I have a low tech solution, that may not appeal to you, but it works for me. 

I usually attach some tape to a glass surface, paint it an appropriate color (either the color of the lettering or the color of the background)  and then cut small strips which I attach in strategic spots on the numbering (usually turning 0's, 3's ,7's or 9's  into 8's, or 8's or 9's into 3's depending on the font used ).  If done with thin enough tape, the alteration  can not be easily detected under layout lighting conditions and it is completely reversible if one is worried about the collectiblity of the piece.  

On a weathered car, I have used a thick coat of a watercolor or poster paint to achieve the same reversible effect, with a little colored chalk to cover a multitude of sins/errors.

LittleTommy 

Aging vision 'makes lemonade' for items such as duplicate car numbers.  

The other day the wife and I were the lead car at the railroad crossing for about 125 cars passing....mostly modern tankers.  When it had passed, my wife (she's into this hobby, too!) said, 'Well, did you see any duplicate car numbers?' ()  The people in the car next to us must have thought we were nuts we were both laughing so hard as we pulled away when the gate went up.  

You know, for the life of me I have no idea why this is such a big deal...even to our kindred OCD souls...when reading passing railroad car numbers on a 1:1 train (No problem reading those, Bubba!) is NOT what folks typically do....at least not the wife and I.  No, nowadays the passing parade has too much interesting graffiti, flat-wheel noises, guesses at the merchandise, tanker contents, etc., etc., etc. to grab attention.

So, therein lies another idea....make your cars more interesting BEYOND the stupid car numbers!!  Weather them.  Add graffiti. (Hey!  If you're prepared to daintily rectify the car numbers so that the pickers of nit will never know you did so, why not put that artistic talent/skill to work making the cars truly interesting?!?!?)

How about a couple of PS-1 boxcars with identical numbers and connected right together.  BUT one has the doors closed, has light road weathering.  The other one has the doors ajar, a hobo lounging inside on the visible weathered plank floor, his satchel lying beside him, the rest of the car having a more weathered roof, rusty sides, etc.  How many guests watching those passing connected cars will say 'Hey, both those cars have the same car number!?'   C'mon, man....you know they're going to have their attention drawn to the other details/weathering!

Duplicate car numberitis....coming to a psych's couch near you.

Reminds me of that old picture of the famous Lionel showroom layout featuring a pair of Alco FA's pulling a long string of 6656 yellow cattle cars.  Apparently it didn't bother JLC that they all had the same number!  It was just eye-popping beautiful to behold in its passing, I'll bet.  Same with my Santa Fe 3751 pulling a string of ATSF reefers.....with (Oh dear, oh dear!) several duplicate numbers in the mix.....who cares?....the TRAIN is simply gorgeous to behold as an entity.  And someday, if I can acquire any new talents at this age, I might weather a few of them.

On the other hand....

KD

I'm not changing anything anymore. I look before I leap and don't buy duplicates #s.  

PAUL ROMANO posted:

I'm not changing anything anymore. I look before I leap and don't buy duplicates #s.  

I try to do that but sometimes you can't avoid it on rare items. Case in point MTH scale wheel diesels. 

I have a bunch of Lionel PS4 flats I want to renumber. Have not been able to find fonts close enough. I plan to contact a local decal maker to have some numbers made up. 

Pete

What about just adding a digit at the end?  Might not be prototypical, but it would be easy. 0-9 would give you 10 different cars.

Made this video for fun.  3 cars have the same number.  Can you ID them?

Have Fun!  Ron

For those of us that do switching operations, duplicate car numbers are a big deal.  I've been renumbering equipment in N, Ho, and O scale since the 70s.  I always thought it was just another aspect of model railroading.  Just like installing Kadee couplers on everything for standardization and smoother operations.  I never realized it was such a big deal.

Opinion.

I recognize there is an undeniable OCD aspect to this. But, some would consider K-D couplers a not dissimilar compulsion. My cars will certainly be K-D'd!

I already have a pair of cars with identical numbers.

Can't say I notice it anymore but this thread has me going "hmmmm" about that pair again.

This said, I really liked Ron's suggestion . . . until I noticed the Lionel CPR cars carry their notation neatly between ribs. Adding an additional number would not work well. 

Did railroads ever use letter in conjunction with number?

I.e. 4276A  4276B

ecd15 posted:

For those of us that do switching operations, duplicate car numbers are a big deal.  I've been renumbering equipment in N, Ho, and O scale since the 70s.  I always thought it was just another aspect of model railroading.  Just like installing Kadee couplers on everything for standardization and smoother operations.  I never realized it was such a big deal.

Opinion.

I'm with Bob on the number issue because I like to play switching games with my three sidings or create the occasional switching puzzle.  I start with index cards representing the cars placed in numeric order and then use an appropriately-sided die to randomly create my train.  Fortunately I have few enough cars that there are no duplicates (and hence number changes) to worry about.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

You could contact our forum sponsor, Harry Hieke who might be able to change road numbers. I recently contacted him about changing the road numbers on the Lionel 89’ Union Pacific bi-level autoracks since Lionel does not offer more than 1 road number. Harry quoted minimum $25 per car, plus shipping to change the number. I am still looking for Union Pacific autoracks from an earlier run & if I am unable to find any in the secondary market, I plan to get the current ones renumbered by Harry.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

What I do is to cover the old numbers with a black decal patch. You can buy MicroScale solid black sheets, cut the rectangle a bit bigger than the old number. Solvset the patch, let dry, then put your numbers on top. Works well with newer cars. Looks like proto cars.

Dick

CBQer posted:

What I do is to cover the old numbers with a black decal patch. You can buy MicroScale solid black sheets, cut the rectangle a bit bigger than the old number. Solvset the patch, let dry, then put your numbers on top. Works well with newer cars. Looks like proto cars.

Dick

Now that's cheating. Seriously, I've seen that done, but I usually see that associated with a change in ownership and the new number is usually accompanied by a new reporting mark. That does raise an interesting scenario for the branch line operator since a collection of company rolling stock (and locomotives for that matter) could come from anywhere with the reporting marks and numbers blacked out and redone. I'm kinda liking your approach here. Time to patch out/re-number some of the rolling stock at the club.

Terry, if Lionel uses the same printing/decorating method and materials on the CPR PS-1 boxcar(s) as they did on the PS-2 covered hoppers pictured below, removing the lettering in order to change road #'s will be a piece of cake.  The most difficult part may be finding the correct water-slide decals or dry-transfer numbering to match the font used by Lionel.

Earlier this year I purchased a 3-pack of Lionel "Pennsylvania" PS-2 covered hoppers with the idea of re-decorating them for the CNJ and without knowing how difficult it would be to completely remove all lettering/numbering. 

I simply applied a little bit of Easy Lift-Off solution (ELO-now marketed under the Testors brand name) with a Q-tip, allowed to sit/soak for a few minutes, then gently rubbed with a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser.  All lettering came right off with no damage to underlying base paint.  It was way easier than I ever would have imagined!!

OMG, Joe! The image shocked me. "He's removing everything!"

Allowing I replace the entire number, the font is of little concern.

This might work!

Thank so much for the suggestion!

I have a large collection of the Lionel PS series freight cars and some of them have duplicate numbers.  The suggestions provided within this string have been very helpful and, when time permits, I plan on fixing some of them.  At present there is no layout and everything is still in boxes.  This string also brings up another issue I have with those Lionel O scale PS series freight cars.  Lionel had to put their "Built by Lionel" on most all of them.  Although the lettering is quite small I don't see why they couldn't have put it somewhere on the  underside of the car or left it off all together.  I guess this could be easily painted over.  I have tried using a Q tip soaked in naptha which was not effective.   

Joe

     Very nice work. Where did you get the CNJ lettering.

Thanks

Ray Marion

Ray Marion posted:

Joe

 Very nice work. Where did you get the CNJ lettering.

 Thanks

 Ray Marion

Thanks, Ray!  The CNJ decals are dry transfers from CDS Lettering.  As you may know, they went out of business several years ago and apparently sold their remaining inventory to Ozark Miniatures.  You can find Ozark with a Google search.

Unfortunately, Ozark's availability is really hit or miss on certain O-scale road names, as I'm sure they've been picked through over the years.  When I see something I like--such as these CNJ covered cement hopper decals--I buy in bulk.  I've become a real hoarder...LOL!

I absolutely love working with dry transfers (sooo easy!), and CDS really offered a quality product and very broad selection.  I really wish they were still around!

Since I know how much you enjoy weathering, here's one of the 3 cars pictured above after being weathered...

There is some nice work in the photos above.  My hat is off to you guys.

I have several cars that I like and I have several of each.  9724 MP, 9732 SP, 9202 SF, 7712 SF, 9209 BN,  9438 ON, 9709 BAR or any BAR car, 9754 NYC, 16236 NYC, 9776 SP, 9733 Airco,  9402 Suzy Q, 9435 COG, 52058 SF, tons of different Kline SF Map cars, 9772 GN,  9389-9234-16666-36006 Radioactives, Hoppers 6100, 9117, 9366, 9134, stock cars 9448, 9728, 9437, 7808, tanks  6313, 6357, 9147, 9373, 9189, 9344, 9369, 16102 and even an EGG NOG Tank car.  If it's an appealing paint scheme or looks good then the more the merrier.  Now that these cars are getting so cheap I'm having trouble finding enough space on the layout.  I just mix them up in the consist so they are not close to each other,  Mainly cause I don't like seeing the same car pass by consecutively.  I do nothing to thwart identical numbers on my layout.  And with the older MPC LTI fast angle wheels I can easily pull 30-40 cars behind a single engine.

I buy cars from Menards.

The numbers aren't prototypical but they don't repeat.

I like the idea of painting tape and using it to change numbers.

I don't like making permanent changes.

I could try the tape and if it didn't work just peel it off.

Has anyone tried printing new numbers on their printer on something like self adhesive address labels?

You can get clear or paper ones.

This might be another "close enough" reversible option to try.

Hi Joe

Yes I like the weather is good. Nice job and photo staging.

Ray marion 

Now, I have no idea just how useful the CPR decal set offered by Protocraft might be but they seem a possibility for alleviating this duplicate number problem on the upcoming CPR PS-1 cars.

Protocraft CPR Decals

The Grand Trunk Western 89' Auto Racks or auto carriers need the reporting marks and road numbers removed because they used the font from a recent yellow CN flat car repaint and left off the 6th digit of the numbers. The name GRAND TRUNK WESTERN was also missing from the blue flat car.

Andrew

All, an easy way to remove numbers and/or letters is to spray a q-tip with auto store brake clean, then gently roll the q-tip over the graphic you want removed. Light pressure is key, and so far I've had good luck with this method. Also so far I've had no ill effects to the paint underneath. OCD gets me every time....