The only thing I am interested in in the lionchief plus berkshire.They have come out with some cool stuff.A bit pricey for my taste.With boxcar priced between$50.00 to $80.00.I hope who ever buys this better have some deep deep pockets.I might get the berkshire.Because it looks like it will pull a fair size train.
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Got mine the other day from Charles Ro and I concur. Will pass on Lionel and order the Atlas NC&StL VO1000 instead! First Lionel or MTH O gauge NC&StL engine ever and we Dixie fans are ecstatic!
I will purchase the older RS5 TMCC engines as needed and avoid the overpriced new stuff! 
I got mine a couple weeks ago from Charles Ro. I must say, prices aside, it's an attractive set of catalogs with some nice new offerings. But I'm still waiting for the items I ordered from last years' catalog, so fortunately nothing was calling my name -- at least not too loudly.
Tomlinson Run Railroad
I have no interest in Bluetooth. And with all the new Bluetooth offerings, I refuse to pay for a feature I will never use. I think most of my buying days of newer things are done.
The market is currently flooded with all kinds of model trains. You don't have to spend big bucks to build a nice running layout. Any importer can charge what they want but you don't have to buy anything from them. No problem, no complaints.
Lionel seems to have evolved into a company set on serving only the high end market . This is fine for some but not for others. While I can afford high end products they are of no value to me as the fascination with gadgets is not there. Running 100% conventional and keeping it simple offers me the most. My layout was built as a scenic recreation. You just turn on the power and allow the trains to run mostly in one direction.
But I think L is on to something with BT. Somebody with a cell can have a command layout in the future without having to buy TMCC or Legacy controllers. Now, they need to get it to run on Android!
Maybe I didn't read my catalogs deeply enough because I didn't realize thstvBluetooth could be used in place of a controller. I just though it was a replacement for the radio waves that the RTR sets use. When I have a free minute (ha!), I'll go back and review them.
TRRR
I looked through the new catalog, I have come to realize that if you are looking for something in the new catalog just wait you will find it for less because someone needs to sell there piece in order to buy the next big thing, That's why I don't buy anything new because its just to expensive and you can find it like here and at York or other places it maybe slightly run but you can find them for a little less
Let's all remember, it is a TOY. I love trains to, but to paraphrase Groucho, I like to eat also. As I've said before, I'm a "traditionalist". Turn off the lights and run those trains.
fl9turbo2 posted:... I have come to realize that if you are looking for something in the new catalog just wait you will find it for less because someone needs to sell there piece in order to buy the next big thing, ...
That's the "house-of-cards" business model on which Lionel has been operating for a couple of years now. And I think enough buyers have reached the point where a gust of wind is about ready to blow that big house-of-cards down very quickly. 
David
Train Nut posted:I have no interest in Bluetooth. And with all the new Bluetooth offerings, I refuse to pay for a feature I will never use. I think most of my buying days of newer things are done.
For what it's worth the use of BLE in the LionChief products is likely to actually lower the cost of production while adding additional features. One off the shelf bluetooth module that costs a couple dollars can replace 90% of the electronics found in older designs... and has easily 10 times the computing power. For almost the same cost as producing a conventional control engine you can now have a pretty good 'command' engine. As others have said it also allows lower cost products to offer some of the features previously only available in high-dollar engines that are out of the budget of many people.
I guess the point is, you're not paying for extra features you won't use, your getting those features for free, and possibly even at a lower cost than without them, as a single standardized design can be utilized that lowers the overall cost of production.
JGL
Then why the price "increase" on existing products that they added Bluetooth to?
"Then why the price "increase" on existing products that they added Bluetooth to?"
As noted below, this is hardly restricted to the Bluetooth LC/LC+ locos, although those have been very popular and sales have been robust, which tends to lead to discretionary price (read profit) increases, perhaps.
The widely discussed explanation for the price increases is that the costs of doing business in China are constantly increasing as workers' salaries dramatically increase there, primarily due to rising expectations and the difficulty in finding technically adept help since the recession ended.
Nothing to do with Bluetooth, per se, in all likelihood, as the price increases seem to have affected the entire product line from track to rolling stock to Legacy locos.
Another factor may be that Lionel continues to tool new products in fairly large numbers. Spreading the cost of that over the entire product line may be one way of mitigating those new multi-million dollar costs.
MTH has been better at holding their costs down perhaps because they are not tooling new models, and may have amortized some or all of the cost of their existing tooling.
Atlas and Williams are increasing their prices pretty much at the same rate as Lionel, from my point of view. Probably due to the factors related to sourcing products in China.
As I have stated many times. If Lionel ever gets the LC to be super dependable and develops the technology to operated switches and accessories via remote/Bluetooth, LC and LC+ will rule the world of model trains in all scales! From what I see the LC+ engines are super awesome! I only run LC engines now, if the LC+ engines are better at slow speeds and with pulling power..... Its game over!
Jim ; )
Come on guys. This has never been a "cheap" hobby. If you want cheap, switch to HO. And there are cheaper alternatives in O as well. But complaining that Lionel is expensive is like complaining Cadillac is expensive. You can always buy a Hyundai. I think if you look back across the decades no one ever got a Lionel catalog and exclaimed how cheap the prices were. BigRail
BigRail posted:Come on guys. This has never been a "cheap" hobby. If you want cheap, switch to HO. And there are cheaper alternatives in O as well. But complaining that Lionel is expensive is like complaining Cadillac is expensive. You can always buy a Hyundai. I think if you look back across the decades no one ever got a Lionel catalog and exclaimed how cheap the prices were. BigRail
Have you checked HO lately?
The latest Athearn UP Northern is going for $619.98 DCC w/Souind and $519.98 for conventional DC.
Even the old based-on-1950's-tooling stand-by conventional DC F7 is $89.98.
Rusty
Rocky Mountaineer posted:fl9turbo2 posted:... I have come to realize that if you are looking for something in the new catalog just wait you will find it for less because someone needs to sell there piece in order to buy the next big thing, ...
That's the "house-of-cards" business model on which Lionel has been operating for a couple of years now. And I think enough buyers have reached the point where a gust of wind is about ready to blow that big house-of-cards down very quickly.
David
You bet ya David I could go on and on but I won't.I love the secondary market here on OGR Forum.Nick
In my opinion, this is one of the nicest designed catalogs I've seen. Yes, there are some pricy engines, but, there are some nice Lionchief offerings. Personally, I like the selection of S2 Electrics, especially the tinplate looking set...Also, the cabooses. I wish the passenger cars were 18 inch, the CSX StationSounds car and the Theater Car....It just depends on ones wants.... I also agree, the Secondary Market is a great place to buy the earlier TMCC, Legacy, and DCS locomotives...It's a great hobby no matter which way you look at it....Enjoy your trains.
Personally, I am not a big fan of Lion Chief or Lion Chief Plus. I just can't seem to fit it into the scheme of things on my layout no matter how hard I have tried. Will I ever come around? Maybe someday, I don't know? But, it's sure possible I could and I certainly won't rule it out. Never say never.
However, I do think adding blue tooth will attract more folks, which would be very good for all of us in the hobby and I think that is a very positive thing for all of us in every way. All in all I think the LC/LC+ items have been a big success for Lionel, even much bigger than they had anticipated, and adding blue tooth will only increase the demand for these products. They are just not the products that I really want.
And prices will continue to go up no matter what we (or they) do. Just the way things work. We as consumers will just have to get creative and do the best we can. My worries are that the higher prices will reduce the number of new products coming out and the selection of products we will have to choose from. I hope this does not happen as we now have the best selection of O gauge products I could have ever imagined and I would sure like it to stay that way!!
leapinlarry posted:... I wish the passenger cars were 18 inch, ...
I definitely agree. Lots of folks are buying these 21" cars with layouts that just don't do these long cars any justice whatsoever. But that's what Lionel is selling, so that's what folks are buying. 
David
Definitely new to the hobby so I'm sure my opinion doesn't matter too much but I noticed that there is really two tiers of Lionel catalog. This last weekend we had a model train show in our town. My son and I went and bought some new old stock cars from a Lionel dealer. The dealer stuck two new catalogs in the sack. The 2017 signature editions catalog and a 2017 ready to run catalog. The 2017 ready to run catalog was very surprising. I was expecting the usual John Deere/Mickey Mouse/Polar Express themed kid sets that I see at our local Menards (the only place in town to buy any train stuff) but was pleasantly surprised that there were some "classic" Lionel items sprinkled in-between that I don't remember seeing last year like a wild west set with operating horse corral, operating milk car, coaling tower, etc. I was pretty happy with the variety of items that are interesting and affordable for both myself and my son. If you are in to the "toy" train aspect of Lionel versus the "model" train aspect of the hobby I think this looks like a good year for Lionel.
The model train market is big enough for many tastes, no different than other consumer electronic devices. If you want the latest and greatest 4K smart TV or plasma smart TV, you might have to spend a few grand. At the same time, I could replace my 60" "dumb" LED TV for a few hundred. It's wonderful that we have choices.
This hobby has many market segments. You can enjoy it for a few hundred or for 5-6 figures. No different than bicycling where I DO spend a premium for my own but bear no ill will to those who ride dime-store bikes. To each his own.
Great for those who buy the $1,000-2,000 scale engines and take the time to build realistic worlds on their layout. Not my bag, but I'm glad I can get enough enjoyment from conventional and early-era TMCC engines. I can't believe people are complaining. We live in a world of virtually unlimited options. It's a golden era in so many ways.
I really enjoyed looking at the hard copy version of all three catalogs, four if you count American Flyer. I ordered the Great Northern version of the ACF 4 bay hopper six pack. These are Made in America, how cool is that? The average price on the pre-order from my friends at Eastside Trains was about $45. The other item in the main catalog I ordered was the Alco FA set in that forest green color. The two page spread is one of the most beautiful I have ever seen. In the ready to run catalog, once I saw The Five-Star General and the Sheriff & Outlaw car pages, they just about leap out of the catalog onto my layout! I am really interested in hearing the announcements in the sound package.
The one thing about the pricing that I did not completely understand, was that some of the major dealers had their "published" pre-order prices and a lower price if you called. I am lucky to have Eastside Trains nearby, to do business with and that's all I am going to say about that...
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