MTH Realtrax 4x8 Layout Build Progress

IMO, it is too “track busy.” 

But that is solely my opinion. Others might appreciate your creative approach of maximizing laid track per square foot. It does look amazing to me. My initial concern is support for the upper return loop.

Make sure to use some kind of sound proofing material on top of the plywood. Do not mount the Realtrax directly to the plywood, the sound will be horrible. My 9x6 layout has Realtrax on top of 2" blue foam insulation and is still pretty loud. I like the ease of Realtrax but if I were to do it again I would go with foam roadbed and Gargraves. 

Be interesting for many starters to see among our group with pictures smaller layouts. Lets say starting with 6X12 or smaller layouts and give insight into newer members and some with floor layouts what can be done with smaller layouts.

Did someone say 4 X 8????

Yes- it's very track heavy, yes my grades are too steep, yes I need more room, Yes- 027 limits what I can run. BUT.....

Most importantly- I'm having fun!

Bob

Hey TM Terry,

Thanks for the input. I tend to agree with you that it loos too busy. It has the features I'm looking for but I might be trying to do too much with the space I have. I might do parts of it first and see how I can expand it.

My plan for supporting the upper loop was to build hills on both the right and left side that the track would lay on. Like the mountain was carved out to lay the track. That would give me some short tunnels below. These hills will probably be steep. I was going to make the structure out of wood and use foam to carve the mountains. I was hoping I could support the center sections with trestle supports.  

Are you committed to using RealTrax? Have been a fair number of posts here through the years about connectivity and other problems with this. Have you checked out Lionel FasTrak?

I use neither so am not biased. Just wondering if you have looked at alternatives.

SouthernMike,

Thanks for the reply and input.

I have been reading about the noise issue with Realtrax. It does have me concerned so here is my plan. I have a 4x8 table with 3/4" plywood as the top. I have a bunch of 1/4" rug padding that I was going to use to cover the plywood. Then I was going to use a sheet of Homasote on that. I was going to use the rug padding for the track on the elevations too. Fingers crossed.

Bob, that looks like a labor of love! You have used every bit of the that space. Awesome!

Johnstrains,

Yes, I'm committed to Realtrax for this layout. Much of the track is purchased between the RTR started set and the bit I purchased after. I'm thinking/hoping it won't be too bad. If I do it right, I could always upgrade to the pro stuff later, correct?

Education can be VERY expensive!

Oakfan posted:

Johnstrains,

Yes, I'm committed to Realtrax for this layout. Much of the track is purchased between the RTR started set and the bit I purchased after. I'm thinking/hoping it won't be too bad. If I do it right, I could always upgrade to the pro stuff later, correct?

Education can be VERY expensive!

Absolutely, and if you check some of those old Real Trax threads you’ll find different methods used to mitigate some of the issues like bad connections.

I have a Lionel PW-style toy train layout and actually use good old tin track.

Hi Brad and welcome to the forum.  There's plenty of great guys here who are always willing to help.  I like your plan and can see how it would fit with your time period.  That's a great era to model and you don't have to worry about scale size trains.  I really like that you've incorporated two return loops which is left out all too often.  With a smaller layout it eliminates the monotony of the train always traveling in the same direction.  Perhaps one of our members who uses SCRAM track software can take your plan and show it in 3D.  BTW what RTR set did you purchase.  Anyway your plan incorporates a lot of good construction  features that will be fun to build.  Looking forward to seeing this as you progress.

Hi Wild Mary. Thanks for the warm welcome and comments on my layout. I used the RR-Track Lite software that came with my starter set to create that plan.

I purchased the MTH 30-4245-1 RailKing 2-8-0 Steam Freight R-T-R Train Set w/Proto-Sound 3.0. I also got some extra track and a few switches. I set it all up on the top of a sheet of plywood so that I could wire everything and figure out how it works. So far so good. So I took the next step and built my 4x8 table. The remainder of the track purchase is next and then the fun begins.

FYI, right now I'm using the DCS Explorer that can with my set. I do plan to upgrade to the full DCS system in the future. However, while I have been planning, I can't find the hardware anywhere. They advertise the heck out of it but you can't buy it. I hope there isn't an issue with the MTH DCS system.

While I understand the comments about the plan being "track heavy", I think that's a tradeoff that needs to be made.  Unless the goal is to create realistic scenery, a small layout needs to be busy in order to make it fun to run.  I like the plan, and also enjoyed seeing the other small masterpieces.

One suggestion - you WILL make mistakes and find things you would like to do differently, so don't paint or glue the track, and don't add ballast.  Save that for the next time.

Every time someone post a pic of a small layout, I'm amazed at the amount of running, not just one but many times several engines on the trackage. Also the detail to scenery is outstanding.

Personally, I enjoy seeing what can be accomplished in a given restriction more then a large club type layout. Kudos to those that posted pics here, now lets see more.

The scenery that people can create is absolutely amazing. I'd like to take a stab at some elements but I'm far from an artist or hobby enthusiast. I'll see how it turns out.

One thing I really want to do is create some scratch build structures. For sure I'll try my hand at wood bridges and wood/timber portals. I think they will fit much better with my time period than the plastic stuff. It should be fun.

Oakfan posted:

The scenery that people can create is absolutely amazing. I'd like to take a stab at some elements but I'm far from an artist or hobby enthusiast. I'll see how it turns out.

One thing I really want to do is create some scratch build structures. For sure I'll try my hand at wood bridges and wood/timber portals. I think they will fit much better with my time period than the plastic stuff. It should be fun.

Be surprised what you can do with the supplies available to do some amazing scenery. This is my favorite on my layout. Built from what our farm looked like in the 50s. Believe me, it took several tries.

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For many years, I, too, was limited to a 4x8 layout. I'll give you my thoughts but your mileage may vary.

As you've shown, you can fit a lot of track onto a 4x8 board, and you can have a lot of fun with a small layout. The trick is to get a lot of action without getting too elaborate. It's a fine line, and varies with each person's tastes. I've done sparse layouts and jammed layouts, and I tend to have liked the sparser ones a little more. My advice would be to carve nothing in stone. Try your track plan; it looks very interesting. However, go by your experience, and be ready to cut back a bit if necessary.

I vote for "it's too busy." You actually have 3 return loops there, not two. If you eliminate one, specifically the one on the lower left, you can still have a spur and leave plenty of opportunity for creating some of that rustic scenery you're looking for. Filling up every square inch of space with track connotes more of an urban feel to a layout IMO.

Are you sure you don't have room for an extra foot in length and width? 5x9 (ping-pong table size) provides opportunity for a little more flexibility in increasing the fun factor.

I think I see what you are saying. I have 2 ovals and 2 reverse loops but the left side of the inner oval is not needed. I would then have 1 oval but more room and less crammed into that area.

I really wish I had more room. I definitely can’t go bigger than 8 feet. I only have about 24” to walk around. I could do the same on the side and have 24” to walk by but that only buys me about a foot, so 5x8. I think my wife won’t go for that. I’ll have to be happy with the 4x8.

FYI, I recommend you use Realtrax.

I do not recommend Fasttrack.

My experience. YMMV.

If you put down Grass Mat on your plywood and lay your track over it you will dampen the sound significantly. This works with any brand or gauge of track.

Again, my experience.

Bill

Bill,

I'm glad to see a vote for RealTrax. May I ask why you prefer it over Fastrack?

During my research before I got my first train set, i found that I really like the look of RealTrax much better. Also, it seems to be cheaper. I have never owned a train set before so, even though I had obviously heard of Lionel, I don't have any experience with them. I just really like all the products I see from MTH so I went with them. I also like what I'm reading about MTH DCS. I just can't find where to buy the hardware. 

Oakfan posted:

SouthernMike,

Thanks for the reply and input.

I have been reading about the noise issue with Realtrax. It does have me concerned so here is my plan. I have a 4x8 table with 3/4" plywood as the top. I have a bunch of 1/4" rug padding that I was going to use to cover the plywood. Then I was going to use a sheet of Homasote on that. I was going to use the rug padding for the track on the elevations too. Fingers crossed.

You should be fine with this configuration. Change the layering a little. Place the homosote on the ply and cut the rug padding to fit only under the track. Secure the track with #4 x 3/4" sheet metal flat head Philips screws. Snug, but not tightly.

I think looks like you can have some fun and not get bored. There is room for a few buildings or an operating accessory.

I took the liberty of checking the fitment and have only 1 joint that is slightly mis-aligned. I though extending the centermost yard spur straight would let a set of cars to be parked there and I put in an operating track for an uncoupler. I have to get the author of SCARM to add that track and the switching motor detail for RealTrax.

Here's the track plan and some 3D's. 

I would leave the elevated reversing loop open like a subway elevated line. Closing it in would hide a lot of the lower level. Also, here is the RealTrax lengths combinations chart.

Have fun!

xrayvizhen posted:

I vote for "it's too busy." You actually have 3 return loops there, not two. If you eliminate one, specifically the one on the lower left, you can still have a spur and leave plenty of opportunity for creating some of that rustic scenery you're looking for. Filling up every square inch of space with track connotes more of an urban feel to a layout IMO.

Are you sure you don't have room for an extra foot in length and width? 5x9 (ping-pong table size) provides opportunity for a little more flexibility in increasing the fun factor.

hey Xray, good to see you post.

I like both loops on the lower level for operational play value to orient the train for siding in opposite directions. To each his own...

My 5x8 layout has urban scenery that kept me happily building for 2 years. It also can hold a viewer's exploration for 20 minutes. But it has only 2 loops of track and one siding. Your choice, but you can't have it both ways in a small space.

Something to think about.  Down the road you will be getting some additional locos & cars. Think now where you could have a temporary yard finger sticking out to accommodate two or three tracks say 4 to 6 feet long, with a foldup leg.  Something to attach while running then disconnect and put away.

If you can wrap your head around this idea then insert a switch where this future finger will go so you will not need to pull track apart to add later on.

A plus with the MTH Real Trax, they have copper pads at each end to which I solder extra power feeds.

Just to add. A friend was limited to a small layout, I believe it was 4X8 also. But what he did was add additional trackage for sidings with a fold away extension, hinged and folded legs. It added to his operation. When folded away he just moved engines and cars to permanent section.

Moonman,

WOW! Thank you so much for taking the time to redraw and review my layout in such detail. I think I'm sold. I like the change you made to the center spur. It makes it longer and more usable. You nailed my idea about the mountain on the right side. I will have to play with my idea of a mountain on the left side. It may be better to leave it out as you suggested.

I also like you idea about sound dampening. My only concern are for my hands. cutting that carpet pad is a pain in the you-know-what. ;-) But I think that will be better. I'll play around with it.

Thanks again for your efforts.

Tom Tee & JoseF, you are on the same wavelength. I never thought of that. I think I can make that work. Or even better would be if my wife will allow me to move a big bookshelf. I could then have a 2'x4' area to store the trains with a switch to get them back on the main track. Great ideas! Thanks!

My layout space limited my size to 48" by 76". I went with FasTrack with O36 curves and O48 switches. Like your proposed layout mine is extremely busy, though it is "industry busy". It has a single loop. The time frame is 1954, with exclusively L&N and NC&StL motive power, and many of those road's freight. There are six sidings and an isolated track of cabooses between two sidings. Once I saw what Woodland Scenics had to offer, my idustries went in that direction.

My first Woodland Scenic industry was the Morrison Door factory with two NC&StL box cars waiting trackside.

Next I made space for Woodland Scenics' H&H Feed Mill. Behind and to the right is Lionel's Coaling Station, which was initially intended as the focal industry, but might eventually be replaced if something I like better comes along. The building in front of L&N #1757 is temporary and will soon be replaced, maybe with a water tower.

Finally, Joe Fauty custom designed and built a fuel tank farm, which is now the focal point of my layout.

It has been a slow progression that has developed over the last 7 years. The single loop was the start and it still exists as originally built. My layout is called Loop & Nowhere (L&N).

That's an awesome little layout. The Woodland Scenics stuff is great. I found a couple structures that might fit well with my layout concept. What I would really like to find is a rustic old lumber mill/saw mill or something to do with logging that's not too big and won't break the bank. That will probably be the only type industry structure in my layout. Maybe some cabins on the hill and a general store etc. on the lower level. That's about all I think I will be able to fit.

I very much like your track plan.  027  is just fine as your track, especially considering your layout is 4 x 8. I had a 4 x 8 layout for about 10 years and it had nowhere near the excitement of running trains that your layout will provide!  I do like the3 bi-level design of this (your) layout....AWESOME!

      Mind you, there are T O N S of RR cars/engines, and what not suited for 027.  Also think of all that Menards has been putting out these last 8 (?) years. 

Go, man, GO!

Oakfan posted:

Bob, that looks like a labor of love! You have used every bit of the that space. Awesome!

Thanks- here's some close ups of the scenery I've done to date. Most is scratch built, since most of the commercial stuff is too big. Keep surfing this forum for ideas.

Bob

Nice! Your covered platform is the kind of stuff I'd like to scratch build. I think Balsa and Basswood will be my friends as I get into this build.

Brad

RSJB18 posted:

Oakfan posted:

Bob, that looks like a labor of love! You have used every bit of the that space. Awesome!

Thanks- here's some close ups of the scenery I've done to date. Most is scratch built, since most of the commercial stuff is too big. Keep surfing this forum for ideas.

Bob

I'm impressed.

TM Terry posted:

My layout space limited my size to 48" by 76". I went with FasTrack with O36 curves and O48 switches. Like your proposed layout mine is extremely busy, though it is "industry busy". It has a single loop. The time frame is 1954, with exclusively L&N and NC&StL motive power, and many of those road's freight. There are six sidings and an isolated track of cabooses between two sidings. Once I saw what Woodland Scenics had to offer, my idustries went in that direction.

My first Woodland Scenic industry was the Morrison Door factory with two NC&StL box cars waiting trackside.

Next I made space for Woodland Scenics' H&H Feed Mill. Behind and to the right is Lionel's Coaling Station, which was initially intended as the focal industry, but might eventually be replaced if something I like better comes along. The building in front of L&N #1757 is temporary and will soon be replaced, maybe with a water tower.

Finally, Joe Fauty custom designed and built a fuel tank farm, which is now the focal point of my layout.

It has been a slow progression that has developed over the last 7 years. The single loop was the start and it still exists as originally built. My layout is called Loop & Nowhere (L&N).

Excellent, and see much potential for operating and switching. Good job

I’m in deep now! I ordered the rest of the track needed to make my layout with the tweak from MOONMAN. 

I really appreciate all the tips and everyone sharing their layouts. I get so many ideas from everyone’s great work.

josef posted:

Be interesting for many starters to see among our group with pictures smaller layouts. Lets say starting with 6X12 or smaller layouts and give insight into newer members and some with floor layouts what can be done with smaller layouts.

I did a search for general “Show Your Small Layout” threads. There were some a few years ago. I think they should be revived or create a new one as suggested by JOSEF. All of the pictures and track plans really helped me on getting started. 

I spent many happy hours with the switching puzzles inherent in the trackplan of this little 4X8 pike. Scenery was to be a tunnel at each end hiding the O36 curves. Sorry no pic, but I added a spur on the lower left end which meant 3 car trains and more operation.

Well, my local Hardware/Lumber store no longer carries Homasote board. However, I can get the pink insulation board for my new layout. Is this a good alternative? I see many photos and videos of others using this insulation board so assume it's a good choice.