Just curious...

I think its both.

It's truly ridiculous isn't it? With the new system finally getting close, why would anyone of average means be willing to pay that much for essentially 'old electronics' with many parts that will likely fail at some point in the not too distant future? The Legacy unit has been a good one and Lionel certainly did a great job backing it for all these years but really...    Patience fellas!

I talked to a vendor at a show who had one listed for over 1k.  He heard my comment about it being so high.  He kindly told me he had already sold 2 more at that price.  So I guess some people have deep pockets and will just buy it.  I think the more compelling reason is the remote.  Since Lionel is going to an app, many people do not like apps for train control and want the remote.  If you want a cab2, you will pay a premium.

Lionel has made strides to keep the Cab2 and Cab1L relevant with Base3 so the app is optional for those that have them.  The app might be needed to transfer some information or create a 1.74 module if the Cab2 is not upgraded but certainly not required to use for regular operational sessions.  As mentioned above this is why a 990 can command such a premium for folks that prefer a remote.

Dave Olson has stated that they haven't said never for a hardware remote but at this time the focus on the Cab3 App and Base3.  It's like everything else, if there is a demand then typically that item gets made.

@c.sam posted:

It's truly ridiculous isn't it? With the new system finally getting close, why would anyone of average means be willing to pay that much for essentially 'old electronics' with many parts that will likely fail at some point in the not too distant future? The Legacy unit has been a good one and Lionel certainly did a great job backing it for all these years but really...    Patience fellas!

I tend to agree.  The only reason I can see is that they want to use a remote instead of an app.  I prefer remotes myself.

Important to remember for those who want a physical remote that the cab-1L is still available, reasonably priced and will work with the Base 3 when it arrives.  Not as sophisticated as the cab-2, but some folks like its simplicity and smaller size.

I bought a couple of them (Cab-1L) recently, as backup for the units I already have.

@MartyE posted:

... It's like everything else, if there is a demand then typically that item gets made.

The prices that people are willing to pay for a remote should be a clear indication that there's a market!

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the decision to not produce a remote was being discussed.  Here's how I imagine it...  Marketing exec #1:  "Let's see, we can produce an item that people want and are willing to pay a premium for, or we can leave money on the table and force our customers to use an interface that they dislike."  Marketing exec #2:  "Let's leave money on the table!"

I think I've said it before, but multiple DCC vendors have found a way to produce remotes with display screens. Are they that much smarter than the folks at Lionel and MTH? 

"Are they that much smarter than the folks at Lionel and MTH? "

I'm guessing it's a bandwidth problem. They just don't have the personnel/time/resources to do a new remote AND the new Base 3/apps/WiFiTIU.  When those are done and successfully launched they may consider additional projects for the 1-2 people working on the products.

Long before the base 3 was announced, I started using the Icab app on my phone simply because I thought it was "cool". But, now that I look back at it, I think it was just a waste of money. Most of the time nowadays, I reach for my legacy remote because, in my opinion, it's much easier to use than my phone.

@Mallard4468 posted:

The prices that people are willing to pay for a remote should be a clear indication that there's a market!

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the decision to not produce a remote was being discussed.  Here's how I imagine it...  Marketing exec #1:  "Let's see, we can produce an item that people want and are willing to pay a premium for, or we can leave money on the table and force our customers to use an interface that they dislike."  Marketing exec #2:  "Let's leave money on the table!"

I think I've said it before, but multiple DCC vendors have found a way to produce remotes with display screens. Are they that much smarter than the folks at Lionel and MTH?

Only the people at Lionel can justify the cost of a new Cab3 remote and what it takes to produce one.  Someone here said they spec'd all the new parts needed to make a new Cab2.  I didn't see where they built it yet.  Personally I'd love to know how many Legacy systems were built in it's lifetime.  I imagine is less than we think.

I don't know why they chose not to make another remote other than a Cab1L but at this point I can only guess that time, resources, and money are the big factors.  I would suggest writing Lionel directly if you want to find out.  They may or may not tell you.  As I said Dave didn't rule it out but explained that the focus was on the Base3 and App at the moment.   Until or if they make a new one I keep my Cab2 safe and learn to use the App.  Like Nick above I tied the iCab app and found I preferred a remote but part of that was the device was too small.  I still use it sparingly.  I intend on getting a dedicated iPad mini for the trains since I'll need it anyways for MTH since they too have dropped the remote for now.

@MartyE posted:

I don't know why they chose not to make another remote other than a Cab1L but at this point I can only guess that time, resources, and money are the big factors.

I suspect you are very correct about that.  While we tend to think of Lionel as the big dog, it's a relative thing.  Clearly, the CAB2 is a whole lot more complex than the CAB1L, so the decision to continue with the CAB1L makes perfect sense.  It's something you already have in your hand, any redesign for obsolete components would be a lot less work than for the CAB2.

I can’t see why anybody would pay crazy money for the Cab 2 …..Lionel has stopped repairing them altogether now??…..no??…..that would mean it’s obsolete, with parts NLA, and they’re all on borrowed time IMO, ….I don’t have a back up, so I reckon it’ll be WiFi something or another when or if it croaks,…..not the end of the world, I still know how to throw the handle on the ol Z4000,…..☺️

Pat

"Lionel has stopped repairing them altogether now??…..no??…."

I thought it was just the Legacy Base they had ceased being able to repair, and were still repairing Legacy Cab-2 handhelds, no?

My friend Bob who has a large basement layout has both systems (TMCC & DCS) but operates all his motive power through his MTH handheld just fine. I'm beginning to learn the system again and am adding my Lionel engines into my MTH remote as well. Will eventually get the MTH wifi and use my iPhone and learn it. I will probably not acquire any more Lionel locomotives due to the many issues with gearboxes and electronic components. Glad to hear that MTH parts is in good hands and seems to have a bright future!

My local club has pretty much gone completely over to Lionchief (no TMCC or Legacy) and it's variations with no interest in MTH at all which is discouraging to me. I don't think they have any plans to add the Base 3 at this point at all.

@Landsteiner posted:

"Lionel has stopped repairing them altogether now??…..no??…."

I thought it was just the Legacy Base they had ceased being able to repair, and were still repairing Legacy Cab-2 handhelds, no?

That might be the case….

Pat

@MartyE posted:

...I don't know why they chose not to make another remote other than a Cab1L but at this point I can only guess that time, resources, and money are the big factors. ...

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I suspect you are very correct about that.  While we tend to think of Lionel as the big dog, it's a relative thing.  Clearly, the CAB2 is a whole lot more complex than the CAB1L, so the decision to continue with the CAB1L makes perfect sense.  It's something you already have in your hand, any redesign for obsolete components would be a lot less work than for the CAB2.

While I understand (and agree) that Lionel isn't a big company with endless resources, I think it bears noting that the main players in DCC (like Digitrax, NCE, TCS, and Railpro) aren't large companies either.  I wonder if their ability / willingness to produce remotes is driven by the existence of competition in their marketplace.

@Mallard4468 posted:

While I understand (and agree) that Lionel isn't a big company with endless resources, I think it bears noting that the main players in DCC (like Digitrax, NCE, TCS, and Railpro) aren't large companies either.  I wonder if their ability / willingness to produce remotes is driven by the existence of competition in their marketplace.

No doubt about it.  If there were lively competition, Lionel would be much more customer focused, I doubt most would argue that point.

One can see endless illogical logic on that famous auction site. I often see sellers raise the price on a BUY IT NOW item which has sat there for over a year without selling. Whats even more puzzling is I have seen things sell after the price rise. Guess sellers think it works at the grocery store. From a buyers perspective I guess they rationalize I should buy before it goes up again. I for one wish eBay would put a time limit on BIN ads which don't sell in some time frame perhaps 6mo and automatically cut the price by 5% each month there after. When I was active on eBay I cut prices by 3% after two months and every month afterwards.          j

The kids have me using the phone for MTH and Lionel LionChief.  Now that I am used to them, I rarely reach for the physical remotes.  I think it's just a question of what you are used to - they all work fine.  

As far as what others are willing to pay, there are those who have deep pockets in this hobby and they are obviously entitled to spend that money how they choose.  Not a choice I would make, but it's their money.