Kinda New To Trains, Help With Layout

Phase your power supplies with this tutorial.

Ouch!

Thanks for the tip.

Forgot to mention that I sanded the older tracks due to the rust and such on it. I live near the ocean and there is high humidity here.

Also I was sanding it based off of this article. I read mixed things online about track cleaning and I came to conclusion not to use really harsh chemicals and any type of steel wool materials. http://www.lionel.com/ForTheHo...ndFAQs/MaintTips.cfm

Also forgot to ask. Is it possible to have the outer and inner loop with one circuit from the same transformer without doing the phasing with two transformers? Maybe like the way I connected the pins from switch to switch?

Thanks

Sure you can extend wire runs from the Hot and Common at the transformer to both loops---but the trains on both will run at the same time unless you have a toggle switch[s] in line to control the loops as blocks[or use two throttles].

I am not sure I understand but assume you are saying that you have insulated pins in the center rail [Hot rail] on the crossovers between the two loops.

 

It will help folks answer your questions if you provide more information:

 

What kind of transformer? How many throttles? How big are the loops?

Do you have a volt meter or multimeter to check voltage on the track loops and between the switches?  If not, do you have a lighted caboose or railcar you can place on the track to check for power?

Do you have wire runs extended from transformer Hot and Common binding posts to the rails on both loops and between the switches/pins. I don't know whether power runs thru your particular switches or not---not familiar with 027  units--if not you would need to connect wire runs to each side.

 

@Dewey

 

I got more information about my setup. 

 

Its suppose to look like a double four leaf clover. (Attachment in original post of drawing)

Transformer: 2x Lionel RS-I (6-12780)

Outside loop: ~9.5ft x 12.5ft, 88 Tracks and 4 manual switches

Inside loop: ~8ft 2in x 11ft 2in, 76 tracks and 4 manual switches

 

My goal is to get a locomotive to transfer from outside to inside loop and vice versa.

 

These are my steps I took:

1.Setup two loops separately

2.Connected the two loops together with 2x4 sets of switches. Eg. Where two right switches connected it was with the 3 steel pins.

3.Linked up the transformer to the outside loop and put one of the engines on.

4.The engine ran fine on the outside loop. I decided to toggle the switches to move the engine from outside loop to inside loop.

5. As soon as the front of the engine touched the inside loop switch the engine stopped moving.

6. Did some troubleshooting and tried to power the engine & lighted caboose on the inside track(on a long straight section of track). I was thinking that the power from the outside loop should travel though the switch to reach the inside loop. Nothing happened.

7.I attempted to use the extra track clips used for the transformer to link the outside and inside track(two clips and two wires).

8. I got the both tracks to each run a engine at that point, but when trying to move through the switch going from outside to inside loop (or vice versa), the engine would stop.

8. I went back and forward and eventually concluded the outside track had power and the inside was unable to receive power due to something at the switches.

 

I hope this is enough information. If you need more please let me know.

 

In the mean time I have been trying to figure out how to do this phasing technique with the transformers from another post in this tread. I am not sure if my transformers can do that. I am willing to buy any needed accessories(LCS?) to make this layout work. It is definitely more complicated than I had as a child.

 

Thanks

Phase  the RS-1 transformers with the black terminals as all being common.  Use the insulating/fiber pins to denote the separation between the inside & outside loops on the center rails only at the switches.

 

Once this is done, the trains will be able to traverse each loop through the switches. Set the throttles to be about the same when crossing over.

Good advice from Rob.....

Simple Phasing:

Connect a wire directly between the commons["U"] binding posts on each transformer. Then connect a wire to one transformer's Hot binding post. Turn up the throttles 75% on both units, then touch the other end of the connected Hot wire to the Hot binding post of the second transformer.

If you get a hot spark[won't hurt you] it means the transformers are out of phase. If a light spark, or none--in phase.

If out of phase reverse the plug of one transformer in the wall receptacle which should put the units in-phase. Test again. When assured it is in-phase mark the male receptacle plugs on one prong side such as the polarized side with a white dot or something to indicate the correct phase orientation of the plug inserted.

 

As Rob noted use the insulated pins between the switches in the crossovers---inserted in the center rail only for purposes of railpower separation[fiber pins in outer rails,one rail only even then, are for other control functions. At least one Common outer rail should be a continuous uninterrupted return back to the transformer].

 

If I were you I would classify the outer loop as power district #1 and the inner as #2. Each one controlled/fed from a separate throttle. You need more track feeds at spots around the loops to lower potential voltage drop on your older track and to ensure power between the switches if necessary. As Rob noted approximately equalize your voltage between the districts when crossing over[one pickup roller will be in District #1 and one in District #2 as the engine straddles the center rail fiber pin].

 

I would go to Lowe's or the Depot and purchase at least 50' of single conductor stranded copper #16[#14 is probably more readily available] wire in red for district #1 and 50' of black for District #2. Then get 50' of white as the single wire "layout common" serving both power districts. [if you can swing it I would buy 100' rolls to ensure that you have enough for all "clovers" and you mentioned Yard for later].

 

If you can't solder the track feeds to the rail flanges and continue to use the snap-on track connectors you will probably need some barrier strips[T-strips]to distribute the wire runs from track connection to track connection. Radio Shack has the terminal strips in multiple screw positions up to 8 and has strip jumpers[can be cut] to enable multiplying the number of feeds on a particular strip or, separating hot from common on the strip.

 

As regards your point #8 of the engine dying at the crossover:

wire power to each side of the fiber insulating pin which is District #1 on the entry side of the pin[outer loop] and wire from District #2 on the exit side to the inner layout. If that corrects you need to do it at each of the four crossovers.

 

As mentioned earlier I am not familiar with the 027 switch's railpower flow--haven't used tublar stuff since the late 1970s and my memory takes vacations unannounced.

 

 

Hope others can give you some tips--I gotta go before the Domestic CEO gets after me--again!

@Rob & Dewey

 

Thanks for the information. I finally got the phasing done tonight after I realized there is suppose to be a wire that connects the two transformers directly for my common track. Now my engines can perfectly traverse district 1 & 2 without any delay.

 

I'm going to check out the wiring part after work tomorrow. It sounds pretty obvious that my layout is on the larger side because my engines(even a newer one I bought recently) have a hard time moving up the trestles with a few cars on it. I'm planning on having about 10 accessories total on both districts.

 

@Dewey

 

Is tubular that old? It's the only thing I know of. Down the line later if I decided to make a permanent layout. Are there a lot of pros on other styles or is track types all about personal preference?

dude1

There is nothing wrong with tublar track. It has been very durable for many years and the go to track for many,in particular postwar operators. On your particular layout [carpet and elevated] you should connect enough power feeds[Hot and Common wire runs to the center and outer rails] to avoid voltage drop.

 

You do have a large mileage of track with grades and fairly sharp curves and will need to keep the equipment wheels and pickup rollers[or slide shoes] as well as the track clean.

 

If you haven't examined your tublar track carefully take a close look. The center rail[Hot Rail] is insulated from the metal crossties by a little black insulator and therefore from the outer rails which are the uninsulated Common return rails.

 

The electrical circuit that is energized and runs the engine motor is made from the transformer to center rail through the pickup roller and a wire to the motor and a second connection from the motor to the engine frame, axles and wheels which run on the outer rails and must have a Common return wire back to the transformer [many refer to the Common as the"ground". It is a return circuit not really a "ground", but the term has been used interchangeable for many years].

 

I used tublar track with no switches on a carpet layout and round the Christmas tree setup in my early years of O gauge running while my benchwork layout was HO gauge.

When I finally went to O gauge benchwork I have used track with wood ties.

 

That's cool.  I never saw that design before.  Very symmetrical.  And pretty big.  You better have a lot of jumpers, especially if you are running older conventional equipment.  Have fun.