Layout Layers

Don't expect foam to do much to deaden sound, it's mostly for the landscaping you mentioned. Many use the cork roadbed for the looks and ease of ballasting. Until someone tells me it's overkill, I'm planning to use 1/2" plywood, 2" foam, 1/2" soundboard and the cork roadbed. I may even add an extra layer of 1/2" plywood over the foam for something to nail into. I also plan to use ScaleTrax and need to review the Black Diamond Railroad videos again to see how he attached the track to keep it stable. If you don't have those videos, I suggest you consider purchasing them. From what I understand, ScaleTrax can be a little tricky to install (right Russell?).

I used 3/4" plywood for my base.  I found a great deal at a Builders Surplus, much cheaper then the cheapest OSB at Home Depot or Lowes.  I covered the plywood with 1" foam and built one set of risers using Woodland Scenic risers to get up to 6" so I could cross over the lower level for the turning circle.  I found a company that cut styrofoam six inches thick for my upper level.  The same company told me they can cut foam on a angle so I can build the ramps on the other end.

Paul - I place a base of plywood (5/8" is good).  Then place a layer of 1/2" homosote on top of that.  I use sheetrock screw on both the plywood and homosote to hold it down.  Then I lay my track on cork roadbed (Midwest).  Works great, very little noise and no glueing.

Regards,

Paul

The track just lays on the roadbed without anything holding it in place? Or do you put ballast on the roadbed to hold things in place?

DoubleDAZ - sorry, I didn't make myself clear.  I do use hot glue to hold down the cork roadbed to the homosote but nothing besides sheetrock screws to hold the homosote to the plywood and the plywood to the benchwork.  I read a lot of threads where members have glued homosote to plywood or used some form of silicone adhesive. 

Regards,

Paul

I use plywood,foam and cork roadbed, except under yard trackage, and remove all track screws after ballasting. I am not all that concerned about running noise.  Carpet on the floor as well as Quietbrace and/or Homasote as subroadbed all help noise reduction.

All my track is Gargraves Flex with Ross and Curtis switches.

I figured that, but you never know around here, so I thought I'd better ask.

I dont know about the rest but be sure and use a high grade Birtch 3/4 plywood.1/2" buckles and will get wavy as it collects moisture.THEN you will have all kinds of uneven spots witch WILL cause UN coupling problems latter on...Trust me.

1/2" does buckle when used in full sheets for a base, but is that true when doing cookie-cutter style layouts where the sections are fastened to each support? I'm under the impression that 1/2" is much easier to work with, especially for grades. Plus, there is a lot of waste with cookie-cutter style layouts and 3/4" birch is not exactly cheap. Then too, we don't have much moisture here in Phoenix.

My layout is a mix of cookie cutter and open grid construction.  It is nearly all 1/2" Homasote glued (yellow wood glue) to 1/2" plywood and is supported using risers every 16 inches.  The layout is 17 years old with no buckling or wavy plywood.

I do strongly recommend that your plywood have a minimum of 5 laminated layers.  The more layers the more dimensional stability the plywood will have.

If you are doing cookie-cutter, then expect to brace your subroadbed liberally.  I thought I would be clever and use 11/32" (3-ply).  It has been a royal PITA.  I've had to strengthen low spots all over the place.  It's not too bad if you are running forgiving engines (e.g. Williams), but if you have locomotives with scale or close to scale pilots, you are going to scrape and trip breakers.

My recommendation?  Go with 3/4" (5/8" minimum).  The small extra cost will be quickly re-paid in running reliability and strong trackwork.  Skimp here and you will pay for it repeatedly.

George

Thanks Bob and George. I agree it's not a good idea to skimp on the base, so I may compromise and use 3/4" for the base on each level and 1/2" for the 2 grades. When I say cookie-cutter, I'm really just saying I'd be cutting out the centers of Levels 1 and 2 as well as the access hatches on Level 3. I'm hoping to make each grade a single piece. My thought there would be to rout out the lead area for each grade and glue/screw the 1/2" to the 3/4" in those 4 spots. The real cookie-cutter would only be the soundboard beneath the tracks where it's easy to splice and minimize waste. I'd also smooth out the edges of Level's 2 and 3 depending on where I place landscape objects.

Dave-

What is the spacing you have between levels?  And you're in PHX you say?  I'm in Mesa.  I just might be willing to help and learn on your layout so when I finally get to mine I know what I'm doing...

For RR-Track design purposes, I'm using 6" spacing to keep the 2 grades below 3%, but I'm not sure that's going to be enough. My 4-6-0 is 4" from the bottom of the ties to the top of the smokestack, but if I use 3/4" plywood with 1/2" soundboard and then cork roadbed, I'm down to only 4 3/4" clearance and I think that may be cutting things too close. Then too, I don't know the height of the 4-4-0 with that big old smokestack I want. I'm pretty sure that will be the tallest piece of rolling stock I'll be buying.

However, it helps that my design is basically 3 ovals inside each other on separate levels, so there are only 3 tracks that I actually need to worry about; 1 is the crossover in the bottom right and the others are 2 tracks in the Level 1 loop. The rest are all under open space, so clearance is only a landscaping issue. To cope with the 3 trouble spots, I'm thinking of "sinking" parts of Level 1 about 1". Level 1 has 2" of foam, so it should be easy enough to accommodate a 1" slope in places. I'm also considering cutting out the 3/4" plywood under these 3 tracks where a train will pass below.

Now, as far as helping goes, that's a tough one. I actually live in Peoria near the Peoria Sports Complex (Bell/83 Ave). Our daughter and granddaughter will not be moving out until at least Jan 2015. Our downsizing to a single vehicle to free up the garage stall depends on when Toyota releases their redesigned 2015 Prius. That is currently forecast for as late as Q1 2015. We also travel during Jan-Mar each year, so I'm currently shooting for April 2015 to begin construction. Unfortunately, given that so much can happen between now and then, I'm not convinced my layout will even get off the drawing board.

We're leaving tomorrow for a week in Monterey CA and then having tile installed when we get back. I'll need to kick my daughter's car out of the garage and move the current table out there so the installers can work once we finalize our choices. I had wanted to do a new Christmas layout in ScaleTrax for practice, but I don't think I can get the track in time now. What I might do is build half of the benchwork for the planned layout and temporarily construct just the top level for Christmas using what RealTrax I currently have. I will be stopping in the Train Shop in Burbank on the way, but I don't know if they carry ScaleTrax, I don't know of anyone here who does. At any rate, I'll be giving this some thought and go from there when we get home.

If you want to get together some time just to meet and talk about things, I'm open to that. I've been wanting to get back over to the Ranch Lake area to do some photography and the weather is finally beginning to cooperate. I also need to hit the Arizona Train Depot to check out what's new.

I need to go to AZ TD to get a couple more PS1 Batteries.  I live a couple miles south of them.

Paul;

There is no Overkill, there is only Open Fire and Time to Reload.

Really, I am using 1/2" Ply on 1 x 4 framing with 3" of the pink sheet foam under my soundstop (similar to quietbrace but without the tar coating) and adding Woodland Scenics foam roadbed under the ScaleTrax. It should be super quiet.

I got permission to put up my layout in the attached barn where I'm now renting.

So it's getting even bigger than the plan on my website.

Oh, Hurt me more !!!

I'll be using more of the sheet foam to insulate for winter and summer use.

It will be cold in winter and hot in summer in the barn, insulation will help a lot.

My layout is going around the walls so I'll never use a full plywood sheet and the substructure will easily support the spans (I plan on cutting bracing from the 1/2" ply and standing it on edge under the track). I also won't need to get on top of the layout. I also plan on plenty of grades since I'm modeling Western Colorado.

That's why I'm going with 1/2"

The Soundstop and some foam will be cut away in many places to make creeks, ravines, ect. 3.5" between the foam and soundstop gives me 14' scale vertical.

I'm actually tempted to add more foam everywhere and I definitely will in places.

Dave is correct on the Scaletrax install, you need the right tools. The DVD's from www.toytrainsontracks.com will get you up & running without issues. And they are fun to watch anyway, he has a lot of trains running in them too.

I will add that Ross Custom Switches can be mated with Scaletrax to get that odd switch you might need. Just use the normal 5mm foam roadbed (I have Woodland Scenics) under the Scaletrax and 2mm sheet cork under the switch. The Rail tops line up sweet. And Ross rails are shaped similar to Scaletrax rail, just a bit bigger, so they match visually except for the ties. Ross ties are huge. They have to be since they use real spikes into the wood ties to mount the rails.