layout/modeling software for multi room o scale wall/ceiling layout

I had not heard of 3rd Planit, so I just installed the trial version and found the learning curve way to steep for me. I started out finding the Atlas O Scale library, but couldn’t figure out how to lay tracks and get them to join. So, I then used the Section tool and eventually put together an oval with Atlas O-Scale track, but the track selection icons in the tool didn’t show the size of curves, etc., and I had no idea I used O-81 curves until I selected one and opened Properties. There was no status to show what the trackpad was when selected. I didn’t find anything intuitive about the process, I couldn’t even figure out how to view a 3D image of the full oval I had created. At one point I got part of it, but was never able to see all of it. And at some point the zoom tool exploded the layout to 123,000+ by something. I’m not opposed to a learning curve, but for $125, plus $64 every 2 years for upgrades. Given that I’ve been using SCARM for over 6 years I’d be on my 3rd upgrade period at a cost so far of over $325 when you add tax. Sorry, but I’m just not interested.

If you are just designing a personal layout and want help from members on the forum, then SCARM arguably has the most users willing to download your design files and help make suggested changes. There are some users of AnyRail, but Ken O-Scale seems to be the only one offering sample designs and helping with the software. I’ve used the trial version at times to help and I’m sure there are more users, but not many ask for help, so not many of us who tend to help have purchased the full version. FWITW, SCARM was “free” for a long time during an extended beta process and garnered a lot of support as a result.

AFAIK, all 3 packages are capable of multi-room, multi-level designs. SCARM and AnyRail have large libraries of tracks in all scales. I don’t know about AnyRail, but SCARM has a limited inventory of accessories (buildings, etc,). It has a nice simulation with a few engines and rolling stock, but no capability to design others, not that that’s a big deal. It has the capability to add structures, like walls, buildings, etc., but unlike CAD software, there is no way to “define” exact dimensions. For example, you draw 2x4 studs by using rectangles with eyeballed length, width and depth. You can zoom in and move points to get close, but you can’t just define length as 96”, width as 3.5” and depth as 1.5”. You draw a rectangle that is approximately 1.5”x3.5” and then define its depth as 96”, so it’ll appear upright in 3D. You then copy/paste to add more. To add a header for the wall, you draw a rectangle that is close to 3.5”x96”, then define its depth as 1.5” and locate it at 96” vertical position, so it all appears as a framed wall in 3D. Unfortunately, the header piece then covers the studs, making editing them difficult. There are layers to help with editing, but that gets cumbersome with intricate objects. And to add an angled object, like a truss for a bridge, you have to add a series of short rectangles offset on top of each other, like Legos. The resulting object does the job, but isn’t near as pretty as a CAD rendering. SCARM is capable of rendering vertical angled objects, but Mixy hasn’t added that feature since he showed a Christmas tree with angled branches some years ago. It’s really too bad SCARM doesn’t work like RR-Track which lets you define length, width, depth, position angle and vertical position in a simple dialog box, though I t also doesn’t do vertical angles like trusses.

Using SCARM, I’ve done or helped with multi-room (large room with 2 tunnels between studs into bonus space, 260”x375”) and multi-level designs (up to 4 levels, 190”x364”). I’ve had success experimenting with helixes. The biggest problem is the larger the design, the slower the software responds, at least on my Dell i7 laptop. That can be alleviated by breaking the layout into segments as long as 1 common piece is locked in position so there is continuity.

FWIW, I started on XTrackCAD with HO, but then switched to O-Scale and bought RR-Track, before SCARM came. Eventually I started helping folks using SCARM and upgraded when it went commercial. It’s editing is easier and it’s 3D rendering and simulation better. The only thing I miss is the object dialog I mentioned for creating exact objects. However, getting close in SCARM gets the job done. I wish I knew more about AnyRail, but I’m not interested enough to spend more money on software.

I have to agree with Dave's statements.  There is also CADRail.  My two main packages are SCARM and RRTrack, but I don't start anything new in RRTrack.

If I was going to do a kid's layout using Lionel track I would use RRTrack because of it extensive buildings and accessories libraries.  For me RRTrack has a tendency to crash when the piece count get large.

Jan

FWIW, I didn’t say much about RR-Track because it doesn’t have a trial version and hasn’t been updated in quite awhile. I got mine with a R-T-R MTH set and then bought the full version. Like Jan, mine crashes intermittently, but it does so regardless of the number of tracks. In fact, I started something just the other day and lost it to a crash when I was simply editing a polygon. And it’s been that way since v4, over 7 years now. It does have a lot of accessories that I use to make a footprint for SCARM. 😉

Thank you for the follow-up. I am initially interested in a personal layout through my semi-finished basement (ceiling/wall). After that, I will look to work with others that have similar ideas. I use a program called Chief Architect that contains detailed drawings (dimensional) of my basement. I was hoping to use a DXF file (AutoCAD/Revit) to incorporate one into the other. 3rd planit has DXF import capabilities but I did not see this in SCARM. I was impressed with Double DAZ's evaluation of 3rd Planit and agree that it would be a steep learning curve. I picked up the 3rd planit software idea from a youtube channel, mpeterll. This person does very large custom layouts usually in N or HO. I am only interested in O scale and either Atlas 3rl or MTH Scaletrax.  I may end up using SCARM by going to an intermediate program like SketchUp or using copy/paste. The reason I need to model the layout prior to building it is that 1) I don't want to make any unnecessary holes in my finished walls. 2) maintain a minimum of O-72, 3) workaround several obstacles. I also have a boss to answer to, my wife. I'm sure there are more reasons.

Tim

Just a note to say that with MTH shutting down you may have a hard time finding ScaleTrax in stock and 3rd Planit doesn’t have a ScaleTrax library that I saw.

And you’re right, no DXF file import function that I know of in SCARM or AnyRail. I’m not sure what obstacles you’re talking about, but you can draw an outline of your available space in SCARM if you have the dimensions. The Toolbox let’s you draw an outline by entering X-Y coordinates for each point. Positioning individual obstacles inside the space is more tedious, but seems to get the job done. I wish I knew how AnyRail worked, but I’ve only helped with trackage.

Just curious. Have you tried importing DXF files into 3rd Planit?

I have not tried importing a DXF file into 3rd planit. My experience with importing DXF files has taught me that it is generally not that simple due to versioning and other requirements which is one of the reasons I am leaning toward SCARM. What I don't like doing is investing time and money into a program only to find it a time sink. With DCS as the backbone of my future system, I am one of those who is hopeful that MTH is around for a long time.

When I was in the design stage of my layout, I preferred CadRail.

CadRail looks nice. Wonder why I don’t remember it being mentioned in other threads like this?

That's a new one to me. I'll take a look at CaDRAIL

I have RRTrack and AnyRail.  I really tried to like RR-Track, but many of the features were too obscure to easily pickup, too steep a learning curve.  AnyRail is pretty simple, and it does all I need it to do.  I don't see why it wouldn't do any size layout, it certainly has the capability.