Layout Operating Questions

I really enjoyed your post and pictures. My layout is built for light operation as well and it is fun.

What do you mean by 0-5-0 method?

Rick

I like the way your operating sessions sounds!

I'm not sure how real life it is, but sounds plausible.  I have a small layout (4x8) and I typically use my diesel to build a train (since it has front and rear electro couplers) and then do the mainline hauling with my steam engine (I like the sounds of steam).  Then after doing some hot lapping, I"ll start breaking the train down and follow a similar procedure to what you describe but on a smaller scale.

I really like getting more engines involved.  I've spent an hour just building my train on my small layout before getting it in the correct order.  It makes for a fun game. 

How many fingers do you have on one hand?

I rarely see people run their O gage trains close to prototype. I try to stage trains on and off the layout but still seem to get stuck in the repetitive circle running of trains.

I like your layout and your ideas of operation. Thanks for sharing

Bob

Great job with the layout configuration.

After your explanation, I can understand the real value of the wye.

If you ever need help ......

Thanks guys

So far it's worked very well.  I have to back the engines thru the Wye when I want to turn them around, just need to go slow to avoid any mishaps.  The 2-8-2 has a booster engine on the trailing truck and there's some interference between it and the piping hanging down on the rear sides of the engine.  If I'm not careful it'll derail at a speed higher than 5mph, I need to file off the back side of the piping just a bit and it should clear things up.

A while back I added the smallish run-around track located at the upper right corner (where the industrial siding is tied in).  I don't recall why I added it but it gave me the ability to run the engine around 5 or 6 cars so I can push them into the siding at the bottom of the layout, or I can run the layout in the reverse direction to achieve the same thing.  But then I'd have to push cars in all the remaining sidings, of course the smallish run-around will let me do that too.

I try not to foul the mainline at the Wye, but sometimes it's a necessity.  More layout space (or less yard space) is the only fix.

I did pull the 2-8-2 in with an 11-car train (all 40 footers or less, plus caboose) last night and just got in past the switch for the switcher track (inside the Wye).

The Williams 2-8-2 was heavily modified into a Seaboard class Q3 with Vanderbilt tender and PS2 electronics added as well.  I opted for a USRA sound file and enjoy hearing the whistle as it goes round the layout.

Trying to develop a purpose for what I'm doing just seems like it's more fun than simply letting them run circles.  Actually, running circles then switching is part of the process.

I've tried car-cards and switch lists, but I feel just making sure I use all the cars I have before I repeat one of them is turning out to be just as, if not more, enjoyable.  My method is kind of like rotating stock on a shelf.

I have found I need to represent more RRs on my layout, so I hope to get a couple more pieces of rolling stock over the next couple of years, if/when funding is available.

I was going to make car cards or something similar myself but it did not give me enough of what I was looking for.

I work with an IT group and was explaining my vision to a developer friend, 2 lunch breaks later and he has a webpage/application where I input all my rolling stock, all my locations for pick up and drop off.  Then I tell it how long of a train or how long of multiple trains I want to build and if I want it to include pick up and drop off locations.  Boom - I have my orders and I get to playing.  It helps me use more of my rolling stock and adds to the play value.  I found when just picking cars myself I tended to always pick the same ones.

I've still got my car-cards and the rest of the stuff so I may try them again.

I did find one thing out when using them...I had cars that none of my layout industries use.  A couple of them are among my favorites (like my SAL whalebelly hopper used for dry cement) so I'll have to come up with something.  I also have a covered hopper that carried only grain or flour so I might have to turn one of my downtown buildings into a bakery (I can still smell the bread baking at the old Mary Jane bakery we had in town years ago).

Those cars that don't fit your industries can be forwarded from one "end" of your layout to the other (even though in reality you are starting and ending at the same point).

You can also designate one of your sidings to serve as a team track--and also remember that sidings  were also used to store cars for a later delivery to an industry by another train crew.

Jeff C

Jeff, thanks for posting that, makes a lot of sense and something I hadn't thought of

Bob:

Your first question was "would a prototype operated this way?" and the answer is "maybe" because prototypes operate in a way that makes sense for their profitability.

Through trains are typically those trains from division point to division point, but sometimes set out at towns between.

Peddler freights or locals were trains that worked from division to division making deliveries/pick ups or simply set outs for local assignment switchers to make deliveries.

Locomotives would typically be assigned by tractive effort. (i.e.: you wouldn't typically send a local out on the line behind a Mountain unless the terrain dictated that large of an engine.)

So far, you are just fine.

But answer this question...is your on layout town in the middle of your imagined railroad or at one of the ends or at the end of a branch?  THAT might dictate how freight is delivered and how trains would actually operate.

You have your "peddler" come in from the left and return towards the left suggesting that there is no "right" connection down the line for your peddler...or perhaps...your railroad works the local peddler "half way" between division points...that is up to you and whether you are following a prototype, etc.

==================

One thing to consider is that your city is between division points and the local freights going both east/west (or if your railroad goes north/south instead) make set outs and pick ups in town.

The way your staging yard is designed, you can use either leg of the wye for "storage" or "parking places" thus a train can pull out and return to the same track. 

The switcher could then be "assigned" to your "on layout city".  No yard needed, just drop the cars and the local switcher picks up the cars and delivers/pick up...use the outside track for the main and the peddler "holds the main" while the local switcher works from the back end, pulling the caboose, shoving it onto the cars to be picked up, then grabbing the cut of deliveries, putting them on the pass/runaround and returning the recent pick ups and caboose to the rest of the peddler train and letting it move on.  Now, you have all morning to deliver the cars that were brought in by the morning peddler, but remember, the 1pm westbound is coming, so you don't have all day...

Keep in mind that if you delivered boxcar 101 to BD Industries dock A, and you have another car on the 1pm train to deliver to BD Industries, you may have to pull car 101 and spot car 675 at dock B and return car 101 back at dock A...because the industry needs to keep an accounting of what was delivered...and because widgets go to warehouse A and whatsits go to warehouse B.  THAT is all on your car card, right?  By making customer requirements for deliveries, you build additional switching into the entire "work shift".  Of course, if your switch crew comes on at 6pm, then they don't have that extra work...but they will need to be sure that the right car goes to the right dock.

Got a team track?  That dry cement can be delivered to the team track for the local concrete plant to pick up a delivery.  Covered hopper for feed/seed/fertilizer/flour?  Back in the 50s and 60s, I used to go to the Purina Feed Store locally with my dad to pick up livestock feed that was brought in either in bulk (sometimes hoppers and sometimes bulk in box cars) OR already sacked in boxcars where the local feed store had to bag it when the customer expected sacked and not bulk.  And yes, the local store got occasional deliveries of flour in sacks that could be made into shirts or dresses...(also chicken feed in similar sacks).  If you are running steam, remember, the world was different back then...

If that kind of operation bothers you (finding excuses for your favorite rolling stock) then just box them until you figure out how to enlarge the layout or how to add a concrete batch plant or a full feed mill.

Tony,

I'll have to print this out and re-read it, a lot of good stuff there.

When I started out, I wanted to model the Portsmouth Sub-Division of the Seaboard Air Line Virginia Division, primarily Portsmouth (where I grew up and live).

I realized that the trains coming into Portsmouth would arrive at the yard and the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line was the real RR that was doing all the switching and moving of rolling stock to other cities around the area.

So I more or less moved the yard area to make it Norlina NC, where the mainline and the sub-division met.  It's still loosely based on the sub-division, but you can only do so much in a 12x12 room.  Now if my 24x24 garage was cleared out that would be a different matter

The configuration of the shelves and track lend themselves toward "thru" trains.  Meaning, a prestaged east bound train on the aisle side track of your staging yard and a west bound train on the track against the wall (or vice versa).  We both recognize that there is not enough room there to actually break down a train and build the next...unless you 0-5-0 a lot of cars on and off the layout.

So...with that accepted as a given, you have the world at your finger tips to create your operating plans around.

If you just want to have fun and "run trains" then you can easily run a train out of stage, stop in your "on layout" city, switch cars (peddler or local freight job where the train does all the work including switching cars into the various industries, not just drop or pick up...) take that train on to the other side of the wye, shut the train down and have fun pulling cars off the back end via the 0-6-0...or the 0-5-0. (Remember: NO BBQ sauce on fingers while running trains.)

OR...you can run as I suggested in the other post...one train, local switch crew pulls the cars for "the city" and then shoves the "out bound" freight onto in front of the caboose and then attach the caboose and send it on...then the local switch crew spots all the new arrivals.

Do not forget that there is a thing called "in town - NOT spotted" for cars received but no room at the industry to spot the car.  In that case, find an unused spur or one that has spare room without fouling the customer.

My basic approach was that I knew when I switched from HO to O gauge, my building shrank from 15 x 19 to "about" 4 x 8.  Think about it...I have an around the wall layout, so I need aisle space which cuts into operating space.  So, the peninsula is taking "idle space" in the middle of the floor and letting me put it to good use.  But regardless of that, with a pass track or runaround on each of the 19ft long walls, the best I can hope for is around one locomotive (GP9 or SW9) and 7-8 cars plus a caboose.  So, really, we have about the same operational space.

I am taking advantage of building flats against the back wall, so I am always looking "south" and I am only looking at the backs of industries that the railroad serves.  (I selectively compressed the "non rail shippers" off my layout.)  Of course, I have a large enough room that the O-72 curves and switches fit well enough to allow good cosmetics and good operation.

Since this is the "3 Rail SCALE" forum, I will not mention that I plan to go "high rail" simply do my discomfort with my modeling skills to do the mechanical alterations to make this a "scale" effort.

I woke up one morning and realized I was having trouble re-railing HO rolling stock...and THAT is when I knew that I had to go to 1:48...the question of 2 rail vs 3 rail vs traditional was made easy when I realized that if you "high rail" you kind of float past all the nit pickers...after all, we all know REAL trains don't run on 3 rails, so swinging pilots and talgo couplers is acceptable to me.  I am playing with my trains...I am playing a game called operation...and a more important game called: The old fat man is having fun.

As long as Bob is having fun...well, to quote a wise man..."Party on, Garth!"

Oh and one last thing...

Go O State Cowboys.  Beat the Sooners!

Thanks again Tony   sounds like we're doing very similar layouts/operations.

3-rail gives me the sharp curves (072 main, 054 inside) so I can utilize as much space as possible (in the 12x12 room) for what I want to do.  Any larger curves would cut down on straight sections and possibly positioning the switches I needed.  I have no desire to run articulated engines or any huge diesels.  I have a 4-6-0 waiting for a PS2 upgrade and other than my 2 E7s, all my diesels are 4-wheel trucks.  I wouldn't mind getting a 4-6-2, but with 10 engines on my roster now there's no longer a "need" for anything else.

So far using the 2-8-2 as my mainline engine, the 2-8-0 as my local, and the 0-6-0 for yard switching, this has worked very well.  I'm going to take some of your ideas and give them a try too!

Bob:  In the end, that is what we all do...take ideas from other people and adapt them to our circumstances.  Whatever you elect to do will be fine.

I just wish I had an idle week so I could get the train building cleaned up (we stored lumber, etc inside during the rainy season...lots of old and lots of left over and a little new lumber...and all the boxes from eBay and dealers over the past year are just stacked in there...I had it ready to work on, and then the next delay was my kind of new job.  (My years on the police department were considered "exempt from Social Security" and I need to finish my required "points" so I can get Medicare in 11 months.)

Anyway, I plan to get out there when weather permits and get it cleaned out.  THEN, I hope to get the track and wiring done in a week or two...benchwork is in place, Homasote is in place and painted a flat black.  I have all but one or two "signature structures"...and a sufficient number of rolling stock.  Then, I plan to figure out how to run a digital camera, up load photos and then post photos...I have drooled at your layout enough.

Hey on youtube there is an old seaboard film.It shows some ft or maybe e6 and some steam locomotives pulling freight.The only down side is on the steam are runing without their headlights on.Can,t tell if its q3 or one of their other mikes.Nice job on the q3 that vanderbuilt tender looks real nice.Vanderbuilt tender are not easy to build so hats off to you.Now all ya got tov do is get a few m2 mountain type.