Legacy Powermasters vs. TMCC Powermasters

If you keep your CAB-1, you can still run conventional as you do now.  To run conventional with the Legacy CAB, the bridge is needed.

If you replace your TMCC Powermasters with the new Legacy Powermasters, then if you upgrade to a Legacy (CAB-2) or CAB-1L system in the future, you can just swap the base unit (Assuming that you will no longer be using the old CAB-1 system.) and use them without the need for a Bridge unit. Even if you use the old CAB-1 system alongside the Legacy system, you will not need a bridge.

The new Legacy Powermaster communicates to the base via the track signal, and not via a radio connection. So no frequency converting bridge is needed. You can connect them to a TMCC system, the full Legacy system, or the CAB-1L system.

i have several of the Legacy Powermaster units, and they perform beautifully in conventional mode. 

After reading this I have a question that might also help the OP. So, the old Cab-1 talked directly to TMCC Powermasters so you did not need a command base, but the new Legacy Powermasters get their signal from the track like the locomotives?

That's correct.  The Legacy Powermasters need a base of some variety to provide the track signal that they respond to.  This makes them compatible with both the older TMCC bases, and Legacy bases without the need for a bridge unit. 

Actually I believe  - The Cab-1 talks to the command base in TMCC mode, but talks directly to the Powermasters in conventional mode.  If you only run in command mode you do not need Powermasters.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

The CAB-1 talks to the power master when ever you hit TR and the corresponding PM# or HALT.

If your running command only you can connect a power source to the track directly, but having a Power Master gives you the ability to switch between command and conventional easier, gives you the ability to control track voltage even in Command by keeping the power master set to conventional, and gives you the Halt feature to kill track power.  G

I ask because I have a couple Cab-1s and only one base.  I want to build an around the ceiling loop in my bedroom to run a conventional locomotive.  I was not looking forward to having a transformer out in the open to control the track power.  If I can get a Powermaster and not have to tie up my base with this loop leaving it for my future layout, that would be great.  I could hide the power supply and the Powermaster, and just grab one of my Cab-1s to turn the train on and off.  Am I correct in this?

In regard to benefits of the legacy pm vs the original pm - correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the legacy pm also have the ability to send proto-sound sequences in conventional mode (firing couplers, etc) like the tpc's did?

I can access all ProtoSounds features with the original PM-1's.

Rob,

Really? I thought that was a feature reserved for the TPC's. 
If that's the case, then do the built in power masters in both he ZW-C and ZW-L allow triggering of protosound features?

Mike

What Proto-Sound (PS-1) features are you referring to?  Like for the coupler, that was just pushing the horn button with voltage high, once to arm it and then second time to fire it.  As for feature programming, that's just turning the voltage high then low when in reset at first power up I don't see why you couldn't get to them by varying the voltage with the Cab-1 red knob.

As for the ZW-C, those aren't Powermasters, they are just power bricks, and the ZW-L has no external power bricks.  And in command mode, the ZW-C can automatically vary the track voltage for programming features in PS-1 locomotives.

But if you are asking about Proto-Sound 2 (PS-2) features, I don't know about them since I don't own any, just PS-1.

As long as you have variable voltage, and whistle/horn & bell activation, it'll work.

Thanks guys. 

Sinclair, the ZW-C effectively has 4 internal power masters to allow remote control of conventional locos on any of the 4 handles, using either the TMCC set or the Legacy remote set. The ZW-L offers the same capability.

A little more detail is needed here. Rob said ProtoSounds.  That is PS-1 and doesn't include PS-2 or 3 engines.

PS-1 only needs changes in voltage and the bell or whistle signal so PM, ZW-C will control them fine.  Some very early PS-1 before 1996 may not have worked, but all the later stuff does.

Neither PM or ZW-C will work PS-2 or 3 conventional functions which require a clean and fast sequence of Whistle and Bell buttons to operate the features.  The CAB-1 or even using the buttons on the ZW-C aren't fast enough for the timing required.  So you need a TPC.

One big difference in the ZW-C is that the CAB-1 doesn't talk to it directly like it can to a PM.  You need the Command Base to control the ZW-C.  So there still is an advantage to PM for conventional layout remote control.   G

One thing to keep in mind that Nicole already pointed out, the Legacy PowerMaster is actually quite different than the older PowerMaster and communicates with the remote in a totally different way.

IMO, unless you don't have a command base at all in the configuration, the Legacy PowerMaster is a much better choice if you're buying PowerMasters anyway.  The Legacy PowerMaster has added a lot of the stuff that used to be in the TPC for PS/1 and PS/2 operation for one advantage.  Also, it's compatible with any TMCC/Legacy system where the original PowerMaster requires a Legacy PowerMaster Bridge to function with the Legacy system.  Also, if you're running Legacy with the Legacy PowerMaster Bridge, you lose the ability to connect the old BASE1 to the Legacy base to allow use of your CAB1 remotes to control TMCC equipment.

Sinclair

I ran one track[one power district] on my TMCC Ceiling layout in conventional mode from Cab 1. I had a TPC linked to a 180 watt PowerHouse. 

Gunrunnerjohn

The blue dot 180 PoHo in the 5-unit stack pictured in the post just above is the one I will ship to you next week.

Currently there is no way I can get to the PoHo hiding out at the Farm Shop. I'm healing well so the MD should turn me loose soon to navigate around.

Glad to hear you're on the mend. There's no hurry on the PH180, you can get it at your leisure.

What in the world do you do with all that stuff in the garage?   Looks like a landscaping business!  You're well fixed if it snows, as long as you can get a plow on one of those.

A third option - you can pick up older IC Controls TPC3000 for a lower cost- but watch out - depending on the version number, some can handle MTH PS1 engines, some can't. Also earlier versions can have problems with early Electric RR modules because of the waveform. As I recall, there are at least versions 1.1, 1.2, and 1.3, and I can't tell anymore which is which.

Someone is selling a TPC 3000 on the Buy Sell right for $65, its a few pages back. Thought about buying myself, but I think I can get by with the last set of poles of my SC-2 to cut power to a siding (so I can put cars on).

I can't recall what the price of a Legacy PM1 is going for, but there comes a point when it is nice to have a warranty for some more $. I believe it also trips much faster, but I don't own any, so I can't vouch for it.

IMO, saving $20-25 and buying the old TPC3000 is a bad bet, the Legacy Powermaster lists for $99, and can be had regularly for less.  For instances, Wholesale Trains has it for $75 right now.

I've completely removed my TPC300 units from my layout and replaced them with Legacy Powermasters, as the Legacy Powermaster has much better overload/short-circuit protection (Which can be reset from the remote if it trips.), and (In my opinion anyway.) seem to provide much smoother control in conventional mode. (Sometimes I like to run my old conventional trains too.) They are also a dream to install, and can be placed anywhere needed without long runs of complicated wiring or worries about the number of serial devices.

If I had another hand, I'd give them 3 thumbs-up. 

John

My son, who lives at the Farm, had to plow 8 inches of snow and an ice crust off of his 1,000' road to civilization this week. Not often needed in N.C. 

His Daughters were not happy because it ruined their downhill sled run to the creek [and also cleared their route to the school bus shed--"hopefully", as regards reopened schools their Mom opined].

I'm sure clearing the path for school was the real disappointing part of the process.

From reading the above posts, it is my understanding the new Legacy Powermasters completely eliminate the need for TPCs. Am I correct?

In the vast majority of cases that is correct. Unless you are a heavy-duty power user, and need more than 10A in an individual power block, then you can use a Legacy Powermaster instead of a TPC. 

Am I correctly understanding that the Legacy Powermaster will respond to both Legacy and TMCC controllers? I know of one club member who purchased one of these but it does not respond to the TMCC.

Ray

It should respond to TMCC PROVIDED that a command base is also being used. It does not use the radio signal from the CAB remote, but the track signal from the command base.  This is detailed on the cover of the Legacy Powermaster manual, and in more detail on page 1 of the manual.  

Nicole is right, they should work fine with TMCC.  The Legacy PowerMaster User's Manual mentions the CAB1/BASE1 operation as well as the Legacy controllers.

I bought two Legacy PMs after reading Nicole's post about them last fall. I only have TMCC hooked up and they work quite well. I was looking for another used TPC when I caught her post. For less than $80 they are a nice replacement. I have them set for on/off track power control. I do like the way they handle momentary shorts with the very sensitive PH 180 breakers. Being able to reset from the CAB-1 is nice and a persistent short will still trip the 180's breaker.

I mounted them with Velcro along with the Command Base. I mounted a small angle bracket beneath each unit to keep them lined up. My only gripe is the color, I wish they were black. I may paint them over at some point.

The manual is on Lionel's site:

http://www.lionel.com/Customer...r&productNumber=

Here's a quick shot of my control board.