Lionel Catalogs are up on their website now!

Berkshire President posted:

I get that....but if you're going to issue a group of USRA Light Mikes, why not issue the USRA tender to match?  I'm pretty sure that every other Light Mike that Lionel (and K-Line) produced came with the USRA tender....so why deviate now?

Disclaimer:  this is mere personal preference on my part.  I have a TMCC and a Legacy NKP Berk....and love both of them.  But I'd like some variety....and some smaller steam engines compared to my Berks and growing 4-8-4 roster.

I'm not saying the tender is wrong.  I'm just asking...."Why?" 

Only the 1 engine says "excursion tender"  All the other tenders look appropriately sized to me.

Anyone else notice in the description for the 2400 series passenger set - #2401 Observation IRVINE! The image shows it correctly with HILLSIDE, so I wonder where IRVINE came from? Lionel moving to California now?

Larry Neal posted:

Anyone else notice in the description for the 2400 series passenger set - #2401 Observation IRVINE! The image shows it correctly with HILLSIDE, so I wonder where IRVINE came from? Lionel moving to California now?

hmm short for Irvington? Where Lionel's factory once was?

Hot Water posted:

I might be interested in one of the SP AC9 articulateds, however I would like to know in advance if Lionel will have the CORRECT SP freight whistle in the Legacy sound set, as compared to the whistle that Lionel used back when those AC9 models first came out.

Don't hold your breath!  Even if they said it would be correct, well....we know how thats gone recently.

With the seemingly duplicate release of scale diesel engines 1 with Legacy and the other LionChief+ with bluetooth, I'd like to hear from Lionel if they plan to stand behind Legacy/TMCC long term as the control system for their higher end pieces.

MichRR714 posted:

With the seemingly duplicate release of scale diesel engines 1 with Legacy and the other LionChief+ with bluetooth, I'd like to hear from Lionel if they plan to stand behind Legacy/TMCC long term as the control system for their higher end pieces.

I am REALLY excited about that!

They finally have a modern gondola in the catalog. Now how long do we have to wait for them to be delivered?

Anderw

falconservice posted:

They finally have a modern gondola in the catalog. Now how long do we have to wait for them to be delivered?

Anderw

I don't think anyone here can answer your question.

falconservice posted:

They finally have a modern gondola in the catalog. Now how long do we have to wait for them to be delivered?

Anderw

Years!

Mikado 4501 posted:

 And Big Jim - that's the tender 587 did have. It'll likely look better in its production form.

Yes, it does look better in the real photo, much better! 

"TRAININGDAVE said,
It's the excursion tender. Do some research.."
Learn to comprehend, Dave.
I never said it was the wrong tender. It doesn't matter how much research you do, that doesn't change the fact that it still looks like an MTH "RailKing" loco with a tender too big for its loco.

I don't how the models have been delivered, but, yes the trailing truck has been depicted from day one upside down.

Okay, i'll be "that" guy.  The stuff looks beautiful, but $220 for a 3 pack of 2 bay hoppers?, $339 for adding a wi-fi camera to an observation car?, $90 for a 40' flat car with load?   It's no wonder I rarely buy anything new.  

J Daddy posted:

 looks like the trailing truck is upside down?

I'd say you are correct, also appears the locomotive is turning away, very visually disconcerting.

TexasSP posted:

Ugh, enough with putting daylight colors on everything.  I though the daylight AC12's were ugly, these daylight AC9's are even worse.

Love it or hate it, the AC12 Daylight seemed to look a whole lot more attractive than a AC9 Daylight

Big Jim posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

 And Big Jim - that's the tender 587 did have. It'll likely look better in its production form.

Yes, it does look better in the real photo, much better! 
I don't how the models have been delivered, but, yes the trailing truck has been depicted from day one upside down.

It is not.

palallin posted:

Big Jim posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

 And Big Jim - that's the tender 587 did have. It'll likely look better in its production form.

Yes, it does look better in the real photo, much better! 
I don't how the models have been delivered, but, yes the trailing truck has been depicted from day one upside down.

It is not.

On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

Now the Bad and the Ugly....

Somehow these light Mikado's just don't look right? your feelings?

Why does Lionel like to recopy the same road number? There were 5 USRA mikes for the PRR yet everyone is either fixated on #9628 or #9630 ?

Pretty good catalogs, a lot of interesting items. But for me, the Signature catalog was kind of a yawner. Nothing that great. Last year must have been a fluke what with all the Amtrak offerings, lol, cause this year we go back to absolutely nothing. Unless you include the water tower or girder bridge...  I suppose that's a good thing though because I don't need to spend any more money on more trains especially since the F40 isn't even here yet.

The SD60M's are cool. With the LionChief offerings, I wonder if Lionel is testing the waters to perhaps eliminate the Legacy control system. Which might not be a bad thing. It looks like the LionChief versions of the engines will have the same, basic RailSounds RC sound system, so it's being marketed as a cheaper alternative to Legacy. But suppose if it had the same sound package as Legacy just with LionChief control, now that could be a game changer. I have a feeling that this is what will eventually happen. Why spend $300+ on a command base and remote when you could just buy the engine and it's all ready to go to operate on any layout, command or conventional. If Lionel could just develop some sort of lashup feature to LionChief and make it so Legacy RailSounds could be included, it could render Legacy obsolete overnight.

Brace yourselves for this complaint.... 

The BN set is TOO uniform. Lionel hit one over the junkyard fence with the Penn Central set in last years catalog. This would have been a perfect opportunity to offer a ramshackle western set of Green, blue, different green, stainless, orange and another different green, etc... all rolled up into one boxed set.  It would have been fantastic. But alas.... at least its got 2 paint schemes. Definitely in for the 2 pack (Amtrak rainbow fodder), really on the fence about the whole set.... you'd need something else to mix in. Maybe a builder or NCL is coming....

I found it quite odd that they offer the Conrail dome, but not offer it as its former self, or its future self (nor any other full dome that is plausible). Seems like a teaser to me. 

Big Jim posted:

J Daddy posted:

Now the Bad and the Ugly....

Somehow these light Mikado's just don't look right? your feelings?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind. That NKP tender looks like it is way too big for the loco! Where they couple together just doesn't match up!!!

Looks like the O scale Pere Marquette or Polar Express tender mated to a S scale locomotive (or a standard size Lionel) for the 587! I hope for the sake of people ordering this loco that is not the case, since the tender will tower over the cab, especially in the curves.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Now the Bad and the Ugly....

Somehow these light Mikado's just don't look right? your feelings?

Why does Lionel like to recopy the same road number? There were 5 USRA mikes for the PRR yet everyone is either fixated on #9628 or #9630 ?

especially WITHOUT engine specific crew talk.

CHEAP is the only answer.

DM&E_Bobby posted:

The SD60M's are cool. With the LionChief offerings, I wonder if Lionel is testing the waters to perhaps eliminate the Legacy control system. Which might not be a bad thing.

What an absolutely terrible, terrible idea.......

DM&E_Bobby posted:

The SD60M's are cool. With the LionChief offerings, I wonder if Lionel is testing the waters to perhaps eliminate the Legacy control system. Which might not be a bad thing. It looks like the LionChief versions of the engines will have the same, basic RailSounds RC sound system, so it's being marketed as a cheaper alternative to Legacy. But suppose if it had the same sound package as Legacy just with LionChief control, now that could be a game changer. I have a feeling that this is what will eventually happen. Why spend $300+ on a command base and remote when you could just buy the engine and it's all ready to go to operate on any layout, command or conventional. If Lionel could just develop some sort of lashup feature to LionChief and make it so Legacy RailSounds could be included, it could render Legacy obsolete overnight.

While I certainly don't disagree, if they cannot offer backwards compatibility and  all the features we enjoy in Legacy now then it would most definitely be a show stopper for me.  I have been spoiled by Legacy's control, effects, and sound.  If you couldn't meet the above then yes it would make something obsolete, me buying Lionel.  I do believe though if Bluetooth replaces Legacy they will make all I mentioned happen. 

I was surprised to see the Shay.  I thought its tooling was caught up in the legal dispute years ago and was destroyed.  I would love one but the price is high.

Berkshire President posted:

DM&E_Bobby posted:

The SD60M's are cool. With the LionChief offerings, I wonder if Lionel is testing the waters to perhaps eliminate the Legacy control system. Which might not be a bad thing.

What an absolutely terrible, terrible idea.......

I would wager there is a 0% chance lionel will do away with legacy.... they've built the entirety of the LCS wifi environment around it, and continue to deliver new features and add-ons for it.

With the backlog of things to be delivered, perhaps they just took an opportunity to purge their project backlog and let everyone's wallets cool down.

Peter Araujo posted:

I noticed that the mikados won't have the same speed control as the regular locomotives.  The only thing that disappoints me on them.  Other than that, I think the NKP 587 was a great idea with the correct details.

I believe that's a typo - only the Shay would likely not be able to do lash-ups

Berkshire President posted:

DM&E_Bobby posted:

The SD60M's are cool. With the LionChief offerings, I wonder if Lionel is testing the waters to perhaps eliminate the Legacy control system. Which might not be a bad thing.

What an absolutely terrible, terrible idea.......

+1,000!!! 

Admittedly, Lionel and all toy train importers for that matter have the challenging task of keeping current customers happy while attracting new customers. 

Unfortunately, Lionel made the unnecessary mistake of introducing new technology like LionChief and LionChief Plus that is on a parallel but not backward compatible track with TMCC/Legacy.  HUGE Blunder.    So now they have two disparate audiences:  the LC+ crowd and the Legacy/TMCC crowd.  Being a solid member of the latter crowd, I now know how folks who ran conventional control felt when TMCC was introduced.  But at least back then, both camps (TMCC and conventional) could purchase the same product and have it work on either style layout.  That's NOT the case, from what I understand, with LC+ offerings and Legacy offerings.

It's never easy to feel like one is part of the out-going wave of influence.  But that's EXACTLY how Lionel's big ticket Legacy buyers might be feeling down the road -- if not already.  And it didn't need to happen that way.

David

Boilermaker1 posted:

I would wager there is a 0% chance lionel will do away with legacy.... they've built the entirety of the LCS wifi environment around it, and continue to deliver new features and add-ons for it.

With the backlog of things to be delivered, perhaps they just took an opportunity to purge their project backlog and let everyone's wallets cool down.

That's a very valid point.

"That's NOT the case, from what I understand, with LC+ offerings and Legacy offerings."

If I understand your point, I believe you have been misled on this issue.  LC and LC+ locos operate just fine on Legacy/TMCC (or DCS) layouts.  You do need to use the appropriate loco specific (comes with the set or loco) or LC/LC+ universal remote to control the LC/LC+ locos.  With the new 2017 catalogued locos, you will have the additional option of smartphone/tablet app control of these LC/LC+locos using Bluetooth.  In the same vein, if you have a LC/LC+ layout, you can operate Legacy/TMCC  (or PS2/3) locos simultaneously if you have the Legacy/TMCC or DCS set hooked up.  All of these locos operate well in a fixed voltage setting environment (usually somewhere between 10 or 12-18 volts for LC/LC+/TMCC/Legacy).  So there is no incompatibility at all.  The only issue is if you absolutely require that all these locos operate off one remote.  That's not possible at this point.

The ONLY "operating system" change that will be accepted is one that can simultaneously operate ALL TMCC, Legacy, PS1, PS2, and PS3 engines.....with all of their functions....with one controller base/remote combination.

IMHO, LionChief will ultimately fail....it's just the soup du jour.  We often wonder how big the three rail O Scale Market is.  And I can not answer that question.  But what I can tell you is that it is the epitome of foolishness to divide your (Lionel's) Customer Base into three parts:  Conventional, TMCC/Legacy, and LionChief....the latter of which is not backwards compatible.  IMHO, the inmates are running the asylum. 

While I have no evidence to support this, I strongly suspect that Big Orange likes LionChief simply b/c it's cheaper to manufacturer/has higher margins.

BTW:  go to Amazon or some other Internet sales sight and check out the reviews on the nationally sold LionChief Products when you have a moment.

I think we maybe getting ahead of ourselves.  I'm as guilty as anyone on speculating the future of Legacy but I think it's probably premature to worry about it.

"IMHO, the inmates are running the asylum. "

I am certified sane, although not by a board certified psychiatrist .  I also own conventional, LC+, TMCC and Legacy locos.  They work just fine together, although I don't care for operating LC+ and TMCC/Legacy locos on the same track as conventional locos.  But contrary to many people's misunderstanding, LC, LC+ and TMCC/Legacy locos are all digital command control.  The only limitation at present is that TMCC/Legacy handhelds cannot control LC/LC+ locos.  But since each LC/LC+ loco comes with its own handheld digital remote, it's not a cost or operational issue unless you insist on having one remote to control everything.  What is a bug to some people is a feature for those who have more than one operator.  The additional remotes are a feature, not a bug for them.  Or for those who like having a remote for each hand.

If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?

Picture this scenario:  I'm running one Legacy engine....and 14 Liar Chief locos on a hypothetical one mile oval of track.  I need 15 remotes to do so.  How is this....compatible?  

Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range.   I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price.  Sorry to say.   Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.

Berkshire President posted:

If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?

Picture this scenario:  I'm running one Legacy engine....and 14 Liar Chief locos on a hypothetical one mile oval of track.  I need 15 remotes to do so.  How is this....compatible?  

Liar Chief locos!

LMAO

"

If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?"

They can.  You will potentially need to fiddle with both controllers to adjust the speeds,  perhaps.  You might have the same potential issue with TMCC non-Odyssey or earlier TMCC Odyssey locos matched up with current production Legacy locos in lashups.

Not a big issue for me, and many others I'd guess.  Compatibility to me primarily means "will they operate on the same track/loop without problems and with independent control of each loco?"  If that's your major concern, they are 100% compatible without any problems.

The AC-9:

"Why does the description in the paragraph indicate that they are being produced as they were during the period when they were converted to oil burners but all the images appear to have coal tenders?"

It doesn't - but the wording is indeed muddy. Had it been re-tooled for the oil version, I would have had a sleepless night (I have the TMCC coal version), but that re-tooling is major - engine piping and an all-new tender, in this case.

=========

The Daylight AC-9 was no surprise. Oh, dear. I shall buy as many of these as I did of the D'light cab-forward. To make it worse, on both locos the "styling" of the orange/etc is...lumpy?

========

The NYC S-2 electric is always appealing, and I might just consider the set with the Pre-war decoration...would that be wrong? The "NYC&HR version is also an idea. I just wish that they had manned-up and brought out the slightly longer (the frame) S-3 version - but that would have meant some (not a lot) new tooling. Sigh. And where's the R-2 freight electric? Huh? Huh?

=========

Purple ACL. What is it with purple? Ugly color. (For those who know: I may be a Mopar guy, but you can toss all the "Plum Crazy" paint ever mixed.)

=======

SD60M...odd. Legacy/Lionchief. $200 or so diff? Same loco. I think I get it - the twin marketing angles - but it seems that 2 separate locos would have been better...but I have no experience running a model company.

==========

Some intriguing rolling stock. Some. 

"I'm running one Legacy engine....and 14 Liar Chief locos on a hypothetical one mile oval of track.  I need 15 remotes to do so.  How is this....compatible? "

I'd say you need better advice, not a single remote .

I will not go to Bluetooth or Lionchief. I have too much stuff that is TMCC-family, and I like it. I am also 68 years old and I will not "get up for the game" again. Electronics are not interesting. I install ERR because it works and it's easy. 

This compatibility thing may become an issue; it's already the reason that I often skipped MTH items - beautiful and interesting as they were/are - and went with Lionel and Friends or (mostly) not at all. I could use DCS if I wanted to; I just don't want another layer of blah-blah-blah while I'm trying to enjoy the model trains!

But, they don't care about me. But, again, I - and my wallet - aren't dead yet. Pay attention.

And, another "again": it's Model Railroading, not Model Protocol-ing.

Straight DC - that's the ticket. Free at last. (Did someone mention DCC?)

Landsteiner posted:

"

If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?"

 

They can.  You will potentially need to fiddle with both controllers to adjust the speeds,  perhaps.  You might have the same potential issue with TMCC non-Odyssey or earlier TMCC Odyssey locos matched up with current production Legacy locos in lashups.

Not a big issue for me, and many others I'd guess.  Compatibility to me primarily means "will they operate on the same track/loop without problems and with independent control of each loco?"  If that's your major concern, they are 100% compatible without any problems.

So what you're REALLY saying in this post and your previous post is that LC/LC+ and Legacy/TMCC are designed to run on fixed voltage systems....and as such they are "compatible".  To me, all that you're saying is that neither system is conventional/transformer only control.

If I place a Liar Chief loco on my TMCC or Legacy Layout and it does NOT run off my TMCC or Legacy remote, how is this "compatible"?  To me, it's actually LESS compatible than the single Post War or MPC loco that I can control with a Power Master and my TMCC remote.

By chance, do you work for Lionel?

Big Jim posted:

palallin posted:

Big Jim posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

 And Big Jim - that's the tender 587 did have. It'll likely look better in its production form.

Yes, it does look better in the real photo, much better! 
I don't how the models have been delivered, but, yes the trailing truck has been depicted from day one upside down.

It is not.

On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.

superwarp1 posted:

Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range.   I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price.  Sorry to say.   Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.

You can always roll the dice a bit... and wait for a dealer sale AFTER delivery.  A 10-15% discount off the regular street-price may be more to your liking.  Won't get you down to $400 , but definitely below $1K.  I purchased two Lionel Heavy Mikado's from the last production run that way... about $850/each... and that price was much better than the typical pre-order prices after the catalog was published.  Still not exactly "cheap", but I didn't think I'd do any better at the time for a brand new one with warranty protection.

David