Lionel Catalogs are up on their website now!

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Marty,  all very good points.  I'm often very puzzled these days with dealer pricing.  Sometimes I'll see very aggressive prices on product from a small LHS -- even though they typically source their product through a distributor vs. direct from Lionel.

Each situation is unique though.  Sometimes a dealer may need a quick cash infusion, so they'll move some inventory at lower margins -- or perhaps even at a loss.  But as you say, that's offset by larger profits in other parts of the product line.  Only each dealer truly knows their "big picture".

Given the type of catalog we have here though -- along with market conditions (i.e., folks coming off a pretty brutal 2016 if they ordered tons of stuff), I wouldn't be surprised if 2017 is the year where dealers hold back a bit on BTO extra's.  I'm sure they're as aware as any of us here, that enthusiasts have more trains now than their great-grandchildren could ever use -- even if the importers would stop new production immediately.  That's not gonna happen anytime soon.  But the fact that folks are sending that message has gotta create a bit of nervousness on the supply side of the house.

David

Thanks. 

Wonder which way the 726 LionChief+ Berk will be made ?  RTR catalog shows the earlier spoked wheels where as Signature shows the solid wheels.

Also whats up with Lionel's search function on their website ?  Seems to be hit or miss. Tried searching for the new S2 electrics.  Search for S2, and get 537 matches, of which none are an S2 electric.  But yet search for NYC electric and you can find it.

ed h posted:

Also whats up with Lionel's search function on their website ?  Seems to be hit or miss. Tried searching for the new S2 electrics.  Search for S2, and get 537 matches, of which none are an S2 electric.  But yet search for NYC electric and you can find it.

Try searching for an E8.  LOL!  Search is really hit or miss.  I did find out the E8s went up about $70 since 2013.  Not bad.

Mikado 4501 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Big Jim posted:

On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

 

Don't you just love it when rumors start just because the catalog depiction makes a mistake?

I've seen many a Lionel Legacy Mikado from 2011, and have yet to see one that actually has the trailing truck upside down like in the catalogs.

Thank you for the photos MIKADO. I hadn't seen one until now to know how they came delivered. I'm very glad to see that they got it right!

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

I'm sure they're as aware as any of us here, that enthusiasts have more trains now than their great-grandchildren could ever use -- even if the importers would stop new production immediately.  That's not gonna happen anytime soon.  But the fact that folks are sending that message has gotta create a bit of nervousness on the supply side of the house.

An David

David, that seems to apply across the board. No young girl wants to inherit and clean her mothers big house, nor a son dad's car collection. In today's economy where the CEO gets an obscene salary and the workers wage cuts, we have neither to pass on. As for train price$, with the tooling long since paid for it clearly seems small runs still mean manufacturers profit even when they miss the market like with the ESE equipment.

AMCDave posted:

booker110 posted:

Just curious...I am assuming the shays are not a new tooling , any idea what year they were last released?...I understand the draw to the whistle steam smoke effect...but at that price I might want a little more...maybe I am silly to think like that...thanks

I think mine is the original issue of this tooling....that's what I've been told anyway. Picked it up about a year aago less than $500 delivered and that was a stretch for me......but as I have ridden on her a few times....I had to have it. 

I have the original cass shay with tmcc and it is one of my best runners and smokes great but I will get the WM shay. I had the original wm shay and had TAS upgrade it to tmcc but they were unable to do anything with the smoke unit, I had to sell it so now I am ready to get one again

superwarp1 posted:

Mikado listed at 1299.00, dealers are discounting them to the 1050.00 range.   I really want a new NYC Mike but I won't pre-order at this price.  Sorry to say.   Guess I'm stuck in the days when a Kline Mike went for 400 bucks.

The funny part is that you can still find K-Line Mikes with TMCC, NIB or very lightly used, for $400 or less.  I've purchase two of the K-Line B&O scale Mikes with TMCC in the last 18 months for about $350 each.  Will need to renumber one of the cabs, but a very easy project.  I plan on double-heading them with my new (still in the box) Legacy set.  There are a lot on Mikes already made and its a personal decision if the Legacy Mikes are worth the extra money.

My bucket list is relatively small, would love some more scale Reading steam engines.  Very little Reading (or even B&O) in the catalog, so I don't see pre-ordering much.  Trying to decide if I should pre-order some Mechanical Reffers or just buy used.

Jim

Did anyone notice that the Crayola Crayons car is a two-bay, high-sided hopper just like the wood-chip hoppers from Weaver Models?

Andrew

Big Jim posted:

Thank you for the photos MIKADO. I hadn't seen one until now to know how they came delivered. I'm very glad to see that they got it right!

Yea but I think they botched the headlight placement on that run. I think that GN version is supposed to have a center mount while the pennsy version got the center mount and was suppsed to have a high mount. (and missing builders plates too)

Heres the K Line version which was the tooling basis of the Legacy version:

The new catalog depicts the Pennsy as having the correct high mount headlight. I'd wait for delivery before ordering.

BobbyD posted:

David, that seems to apply across the board. No young girl wants to inherit and clean her mothers big house, nor a son dad's car collection. In today's economy where the CEO gets an obscene salary and the workers wage cuts, we have neither to pass on. As for train price$, with the tooling long since paid for it clearly seems small runs still mean manufacturers profit even when they miss the market like with the ESE equipment.

 

Well, my sons are already fighting over my old truck, my old tractors/implements, and my trains (I am, I pray, a long way from dead), so "no" is not literally accurate.

It's too easy to make sweeping generalizations, and they sometimes have use, but it is really just stereotyping, and it is no more just to stereotype all people of a particular age than it is to stereotype all people of a particular race or sex.

Of course manufacturer's are going to make maximum use of tooling.  Their goal--just like yours--is to make money.  If they don't make a profit, they don't stay in business.  In any case, though it costs less, it still does cost to use tooling that has already been paid for.  The cost of a single item has less to do with the production of that item than it does with the cost of producing the whole line of product over the course of years.

Comment not aimed specifically at BobbyD:  I wonder why, given the financial and business acumen displayed around here, that there aren't more train manufacturers in business and doing well.

Mikado 4501 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Big Jim posted:

On the NKP engine it most certainly is depicted upside down!

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.

Don't you just love it when rumors start just because the catalog depiction makes a mistake?

I've seen many a Lionel Legacy Mikado from 2011, and have yet to see one that actually has the trailing truck upside down like in the catalogs.

Glad to see they got yours right... I have this version... never did look right!

No rumors

J Daddy posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.

Don't you just love it when rumors start just because the catalog depiction makes a mistake?

I've seen many a Lionel Legacy Mikado from 2011, and have yet to see one that actually has the trailing truck upside down like in the catalogs.

Glad to see they got yours right... I have this version... never did look right!

No rumors

 

John that isn't the same tooling.  Lionel had it's own Mikado tooling before they acquired and ran with the K-Line tooling.  The engine you show above is not the K-line tooling.  I have that engine and I'm not sure what your indicating is wrong with the trailing truck? It's different because it's different tooling.

MichRR714 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Mikado 4501 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Compare the 587 truck to the proper way the truck is mounted on the 4758.

What is sad is they produced these upside down in 2011... maybe it will be fixed. Also this engine was 899 retail... what happened? Did the void NAFTA agreement just kick in? Or is that a whole new topic of discussion... BTW you may want to buy trains now cause from I am hearing 30 percent tax is going to kill this industry for a while.

Don't you just love it when rumors start just because the catalog depiction makes a mistake?

I've seen many a Lionel Legacy Mikado from 2011, and have yet to see one that actually has the trailing truck upside down like in the catalogs.

Glad to see they got yours right... I have this version... never did look right!

No rumors

 

John that isn't the same tooling.  Lionel had it's own Mikado tooling before they acquired and ran with the K-Line tooling.  The engine you show above is not the K-line tooling.  I have that engine and I'm not sure what your indicating is wrong with the trailing truck? It's different because it's different tooling.

Correct Charlie. Not sure which one we will get? The Lionel truck never looked right. It will be interesting to see which one we will get. I however will not Pre order until I see it. 

MichRR714 posted:

 

Glad to see they got yours right... I have this version... never did look right!

No rumors

 

John that isn't the same tooling.  Lionel had it's own Mikado tooling before they acquired and ran with the K-Line tooling.  The engine you show above is not the K-line tooling.  I have that engine and I'm not sure what your indicating is wrong with the trailing truck? It's different because it's different tooling.

This is the what Charlie is referring to. That truck is used on Lionel's early Mikados which were based on a Southern 2-8-2, not the USRA Mikado acquired from K-Line.

FWIW the early Mikado when it was rereleased in the late nineties with Odyssey and wireless drawbar is actually a much more capable engine. It came with a large Pittman motor and weighs half again as much as the USRA Mikes that Lionel did. I would put it up against a Challenger and the like.

Pete

Pete, Charlie - Good News then... looks like we can order in good faith.

J Daddy posted:

Pete, Charlie - Good News then... looks like we can order in good faith.

I much prefer the K-Line tool myself.  I have the the DMIR that is shown above. Lots more detail on that one. 

As a side note, when Lionel shipped the Legacy "K-Line" Mikados they did so without builders plates like the one shown above.  Lionel did send them out and I have them installed on my engine.

MichRR714 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Pete, Charlie - Good News then... looks like we can order in good faith.

I much prefer the K-Line tool myself.  I have the the DMIR that is shown above. Lots more detail on that one.

Except, wasn't the small motor mounted forward in the boiler on K-Line steam locomotive models?  Thus they could NOT pull a long train of cars.

Hot Water posted:

MichRR714 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Pete, Charlie - Good News then... looks like we can order in good faith.

I much prefer the K-Line tool myself.  I have the the DMIR that is shown above. Lots more detail on that one.

Except, wasn't the small motor mounted forward in the boiler on K-Line steam locomotive models?  Thus they could NOT pull a long train of cars.

Mine will pull 30 ore cars.  Haven't tried anything longer with it. Probably don't need too.

Hot Water posted:

MichRR714 posted:

J Daddy posted:

Pete, Charlie - Good News then... looks like we can order in good faith.

I much prefer the K-Line tool myself.  I have the the DMIR that is shown above. Lots more detail on that one.

Except, wasn't the small motor mounted forward in the boiler on K-Line steam locomotive models?  Thus they could NOT pull a long train of cars.

I know the K line Berkshires were retooled to fix this but I am not sure about the new Mikes.

The new Lionel light and heavy Mikes use the same chassis setup and motor as K-Line did. The Berks did get a bigger motor but not the Mikes.

Pete

J Daddy posted:

Glad to see they got yours right... I have this version... never did look right!

No rumors

 

J DADDY,
That truck may look odd to you, but, there is a prototype for it.

Yep, it's clearly apparent that it matches...

Berkshire President posted:

Landsteiner posted:

"

If Lionchief is truly compatible with Legacy or TMCC, shouldn't they be able to run in a lash up together?"

 

They can.  You will potentially need to fiddle with both controllers to adjust the speeds,  perhaps.  You might have the same potential issue with TMCC non-Odyssey or earlier TMCC Odyssey locos matched up with current production Legacy locos in lashups.

Not a big issue for me, and many others I'd guess.  Compatibility to me primarily means "will they operate on the same track/loop without problems and with independent control of each loco?"  If that's your major concern, they are 100% compatible without any problems.

So what you're REALLY saying in this post and your previous post is that LC/LC+ and Legacy/TMCC are designed to run on fixed voltage systems....and as such they are "compatible".  To me, all that you're saying is that neither system is conventional/transformer only control.

If I place a Liar Chief loco on my TMCC or Legacy Layout and it does NOT run off my TMCC or Legacy remote, how is this "compatible"?  To me, it's actually LESS compatible than the single Post War or MPC loco that I can control with a Power Master and my TMCC remote.

By chance, do you work for Lionel?

Put the LC+ in conventional and run it with your TMCC remote and powermaster?

I really wanted to see a Polar Express LC+ (now Bluetooth) engine.  I would have been a buyer for sure.  The Bluetooth stuff is nice, but I wish the manufacturers of O gauge/scale engines would come up with a industry standard for Bluetooth control.  

Does anyone know if Bluetooth will be able to be added to the earlier Lionchief plus Locos without it?

Big Jim posted:

J Daddy posted:

Now the Bad and the Ugly....

Somehow these light Mikado's just don't look right? your feelings?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind. That NKP tender looks like it is way too big for the loco! Where they couple together just doesn't match up!!!

The comment for the NKP is appropriate, as it is a tender for a Berkshire.  However, all the other road choices look more "correct", with average tenders vs a special, albeit correct, 22,000 gal tender.

I think that we have been here before. But, from Wikipedia:

"In 1934, Lima Locomotive Works delivered 25 22RA tenders to the NKP for Mikados. These tenders were nearly identical to those behind the Berkshires (2-8-4) built by Lima."

"Number 587 was displayed in Indianapolis's Broad Ripple Park with the larger 22RA tender in 1955."

Lionel's NKP USRA Mike - #587 - with that big Berkshire-like tender is correct, relative to the tender size.