Lionel's N&W Yx pricing

The Y-3's are leftovers from 2013 so weathering is just a way to move leftover inventory.

What shocked me was the price on the S-2.....$650.....wow......for a switcher?? 

 

as well as the reissued GP30's! Prices are skyrocketing. Again I am being priced out of the market for new items.

I suspect there are no "discounts" on the Harry Heike stuff.

 

 Having said that, the y6 actually comes in at $50 LESS when you factor in the BTO/preorder discount.

 

See Patricks preorder prices here: Pats Trains Early Buy

 

 

I don't pay any attention to the MSRP in catalogs, I go right to the retailer for the "actual" price, then I decide if its too high. MSRPs have gone up, sure.

 

Actual selling price for most things has been the same for years, and in some instances even less.

Early buy pricing is close to 30% off at some dealers already including the weathered Y3. Like I said in another thread you need to shop around.

 

Pete

Y6b dealer pricing seems to come in at $1399 (and perhaps we'll even see a $1299 amidst the intense competition of dealers here on the forum these days), which is really excellent considering the detail level on that locomotive.  For years, the prior JLC version commanded premium pricing.  And now with Legacy Railsounds and whistle-steam, look out.  

 

I guess it begs the real question... Is the Big Boy's depleting coal load and blow-down steam effects worth the extra $600 (typical dealer pricing is $1999)?  For me, no &@/!(#% way.   I'm glad I passed on the Big Boy, 'cause I' rather put the extra money toward a second Y6b.    But I've always been a N&W enthusiast.

 

David

The gp30 and s2 prices i dont get ... You could preorder a es44 for 389 and the s2 is 468.. wow

No way... even a GP30 at $468 street price is absolutely ridiculous.  The $650 MSRP is a joke (same as the $2700 MSRP for the Big Boy)... totally meaningless numbers nowadays. 

 

Simply don't order them... and as BTO items Lionel won't make them.  They'll eventually get the message.

 

David

Do we have any guarantee that the Y6b will have accurate sound?  The sound in the newest PRR J1 was a joke compared to the 2001 release !

Fascinating thread !

I have two JLC Y6b's, one of which is weathered and can be seen in the thread "Layout Vignettes." The other Y6b was redone by Alex Malliae to four cuffs/rev and much more smoke. Having many Legacy locos I feel comfortable doing a comparison Between the JLC  Y6b's and Legacy locos with/without whistle steam.

 

1) The JLC Y6b's are among the top two or three most detailed locos Lionel has ever produced. I am sure the new Legacy version will be no more detailed than the JLC version. For detail, it is fantastic.

 

2) The JLC version is incredibly smooth and slow. Not quite as smooth and slow as a good Legacy loco, but I just received the new Legacy Cab Forward and it was more herky jerky than any other loco I have received. It went right back.

 

3) The hooter whistle on the JLC version is as good as any whistle I have ever heard. It does not quill, of course, but it does have a "quilly" hootiness.

 

4) Smoke on the JLC version is very low (Unless it travels to Alex !)

 

5) Would I spend $1400 for a Legacy version? Only if I could get 75% of that for one of my others. Unlikely.

 

I am so happy with my Y6b's I applaud Lionel making a Legacy version. Maybe I should just get one!

Lionel has been trying to move the Y3's for a few months now.  The big dealers have them on close-out for $930-980.  And I just saw some 2014 pre-order pricing for the Y3 weathered versions at $1000 or so.  Seems very "reasonable".  The MSRP's have become completely meaningless -- almost laughable in fact. 

 

The Y6b detail level is almost legendary for O-Gauge die-cast steam locomotives, and I don't say that lightly.  So you gotta factor in the additional detail level, Legacy Railrounds and whistle-steam effects.  Are those features worth the extra $300-$400 (admittedly compared to Y3 close-out pricing)?  It's anyone's call, but at $1300-$1400 the new Legacy JLC is still a shade less than most folks paid for the JLC version over 10 years ago.

 

The bigger question is, "Is the VL Big Boy worth $2K vs. the Y6b's $1300-$1400?"  I don't see it, but it's all a matter of personal choice.

 

I find it fascinating that -- in this market where supply grossly exceeds demand -- enthusiasts can buy TWO Y3's for the price of a Big Boy.  I've been saying it for months... the Big Boy is overpriced -- even on a good day.

 

David

"Leftovers". Oh, that's hilarious. Trust me, I'll take "leftovers" like this all day

long. "From 2013"; oh, yeah, that was ages ago. Practically prehistoric.

 

I have a pathetic original production ATSF ex-PRR Y3. Must be worthless, without

a smoking bell. I guess that I'll weather it instead of buying a new one. It's

so old and "leftover".

 

This attitude makes us denizens of DaBay giddy with pleasure. Thank you.

That's why it seldom makes sense to be the first kid on the block to jump at this stuff.  It's fine to get all excited about the catalog and whatnot, but it's even more fun to go shopping when all the close-out deals come around every year.    There are so many deals out there right now, we can't even take advantage of them all.  Yet some folks continue to trip over themselves ordering the new stuff as soon as a catalog comes out.   

 

Even the dealers/sponsors are racing to post their pre-order price lists at a dizzying pace nowadays.  I find it all a bit mind-numbing.  Anyone else???

 

David

I want to get the Y6b to complement the 3rdRail Y6a I got. However, I really do want a weathered version (never had one before) and am wondering if I should wait? They seem like they will be good sellers.

I would refrain from judging the Vision Big Boy before it comes out. I am sure people who didn't order one will have negativity towards it (because that's easy to do) and I doubt many who did order it (like myself) has had or will have buyers remorse. A $2k purchase isn't something that is done spontaneously and I considered mine very carefully.  I am excited to be one of the few to have bragging rights to this magnificent engine.

David,

I think I understand what you are saying with this comment..."Is the VL Big Boy worth $2K vs. the Y6b's $1300-$1400?"  

 

I agree it is a matter of personal choice.  We can probably all agree that "worth" is a relative term. While you may question why someone would spend $2K on a VL Big Boy there are many folks who question why you (or any toy train enthusiast) would spend $1k or $200 or fill in the amount, on any toy train.  My point is who cares what you think or what anybody thinks what any of this stuff is worth.  

 

Of course this is a public forum, but I for one am tired of all the griping/commenting/soapboxing about the cost of the VL Big Boy.  We get it.  It is a very expensive toy.

 

Yes, if you can find two Y3s at blowout prices right now, or if you want two weathered ones then yes a consumer could buy two for the cost of one VL big boy. That is an apples to oranges comparison.  Obviously there are significant differences between the features each offers.  More importantly, the Y3 was built under Lionel's previous (what appeared to be random to this uniformed consumer) methodology of determining the total number of units produced versus the BTO strategy for the VL BB. I believe the days of hoping that Lionel overproduced the engine you want (as they did with the Y3s) and snatching it up at a blow out price are over.  

In my former life, I was a product marketing manager for many years... so I'm drawn toward the analysis of market trends and product pricing -- especially in terms of price/performance.  Sorry if you view it as griping/commenting/soapboxing.  I just try to make some sense out of what is an admittedly dynamic marketplace with prices currently all over the map.  That's all... nothing more... nothing less.

 

Lionel obviously had a hit with the Big Boy if we are to believe the pre-order comments from dealers who post on this forum.  And that's fine.  I'm sure UP enthusiasts will be very happy with their purchase.

 

I (like most people, I presume) only have a finite amount of resources to spend in this hobby.  So it's nice to look at the big picture whenever possible and decide where funds will be spent.  $500 is still a lot of money for me.  So when I see that type of delta -- and then some -- between several products,  I'm inclined to study why that's occurring.  

 

David

 

P.S. I may be in for two Y6b's, so I'm all too familiar that these are expensive toys.   Fortunately, the shipping ETA's for those jewels are mid-2015.  Don't think I could have handled another expense like that for 2014.  

Add me to those whose first reaction is that the pricing of the new Legacy engines 'feel' a tad high. One would think that at $899 M.S.R.P. the 10 wheelers would have the whistle steam feature. The Lindbergh Atlantic (which is an equivalent) from 2010 had this feature at an M.S.R.P. of $699. The diesels are breathtakingly breaking new ground, price wise.

 

I purchased a JLC Y6b at York from a Lionel dealer with warranty after the dust settled for $1050 total. Beautiful engine, BTW! Not cheap for its time, but in hindsight it seems like a bargain. 

 

Bob

The Lion missed the boat on the numbers they choose. The Y6A #2156 will be moving to Roanoke and of course they will have it set up to be photographed with the 1218 and 611. This will be the first time in many years that these locomotives will be together. I would buy a #2156; any other Y6, since I already have the JLC I'll pass on. On the bright side Lionel saved me $$.

Scott Smith

David,
As you know well, I'm a sucker for UP steam!

I am so thankful there wasn't a weathered UP Y3!

When I saw them, I thought "oh no." At the price though, I'd passed on it. Been painful. Especially after missing out on the weathered 4-12-2 last fall.

I bought a Y3 a few months ago for less than $1k!

I got a similar deal and received a $100.00 savings bond from Lionel to boot.

Its probably real close to maturity about now.

Joe 

I have the JLC Y6b and will look to pick up one of the new ones - 2175 or 2171.  I was amazed by the price on the GP30s - $600 for a 4 axle diesel.

The problem is that the Y-6a and Y-6b have significant external differences.  If Lionel were to number a Y6b 2156 they would hear screams from the purists who would complain about Lionel doing it wrong.

 

The Y6a has a Worthington BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side, and the two cross compound air pumps on the engineer's side.  The Y6b has a Worthington SA feedwater heater with the mixing chamber ahead of the stack and the pump under the front left running board, while the two air pumps were mounted one on each side of the boiler.  There are also differences between the tenders as well.

 

Stuart

 

As stated, a MAJOR retooling would be required to get a Y6a out of the current mold. As for the detail....good as any you'd really need....a terrific job !   As for sound; the best Lionel has done to date, except for the 4 chug thing and the simple/ compound reversal.  Best hooter whistle...period !   Better than Kohs.  Even has accurate cab chatter.  Don't be messing with the sound, Lionel...unless you simply fix the two areas mentioned above.  

How do you figure that? The numbers are correct for the Y6b, so, what's the beef?

quote:

I would buy a #2156; any other Y6,

Should have bought a 3rd Rail Y6a then.

There is merit to the suggestion for the Y6a....the first in offering a new model and the second in the opportunity in offering a model of an existing engine number, the 2156. This would not be the first time that Lionel offered a variation. The PRR M1a and M1b and the PRR K4 "original" and post war.....and in both cases there are surviving original examples..........I'm sure others can offer additional examples.  

 

quote:

The problem is that the Y-6a and Y-6b have significant external differences.  If Lionel were to number a Y6b 2156 they would hear screams from the purists who would complain about Lionel doing it wrong.

 

The Y6a has a Worthington BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side, and the two cross compound air pumps on the engineer's side.  The Y6b has a Worthington SA feedwater heater with the mixing chamber ahead of the stack and the pump under the front left running board, while the two air pumps were mounted one on each side of the boiler.  There are also differences between the tenders as well.

 

Stuart

quote:

As stated, a MAJOR retooling would be required to get a Y6a out of the current mold.

Even the Y3 boiler would need a MAJOR retooling.

It doesn't appear that Lionel wanted to spend the money to do a proper Y6a. 

I'd like to have whistle steam but frankly, after playing with it a bit I probably would not use it - so not really a big deal.  

 

As to the ten-wheeler, when I saw it I also immediately thought of the Legacy Atlantic, too.  GREAT little loco - one of my favorites!!  And that made me decide I wanted the ten-wheeler, too.  But as to the price -  no   big  deal - within an hour of the catalog being released, I pre-ordered a ten wheeler for $630 from Patricks Trains..  In 2010 after a good bit of shopping, I got my Legacy Atlantic for 15% off ($595).  Assuming a person thinks to two are equivalent (I sure hope so!) that 5.9%  cost escalation in four years - good by me.   

   Does anyone have any idea whether Lionel is using real N&W hooter whistle sounds on the legacy Y6b since they did not on the Legacy Y3 which uses the same sounds as the C&O H-5 2-6-6-2?  Also did they correct the starting in simple problem (8 chuffs) before switching to compound - also not on the C&O engine?

I would think that ONLY Jon Z. and/or Mike R. would be able to answer those very good questions.

Those are the list prices for the small volume hobby shops. If you want to find it for about 60% of the list price, shop at a high volume Model Railroad Train store that supports the forum.

 

Andrew

You can get the S-2 for less than $500 at any number of sites if you do just a bit of looking.  I found it for $450 at Patrick's Trains.  Probably other forum sponsors have it at similar prices but that was good enough for me considering I get top notch service there.  

 

At that price, it is a good deal.  

 

Purchased my Legacy Lindbergh Atlantic for $495 new with warranty via preorder. It follows that the lack of the steam whistle feature on the new 10-wheelers, pretty nice as they will likely be, is disappointing. On this end, that is a 27% true cost escalation in four years using the new $630 price, which translates into much more than the official rate of inflation.

 

The gut reaction about the new Legacy engine pricing by many here has a real basis.

 

Bob