Lionel "What if" locomotives

Bobby Cox posted:

Have been considering ordering new Lionel Legacy AC9 SP in Daylight color scheme until I read that that train. Ever existed in that color scheme. Lionel calls it a "what if' train. How do you all feel about this?

Well, first of all it really is NOT a "train", but just an articulated locomotive model. The Southern Pacific NEVER painted ANY of the AC-9 locomotives in Daylight colors, nor did they EVER paint ANY of their cab forward steam locomotives in Daylight colors. That said, the Lionel "Fantasy" Daylight painted model of the AC-12 cab forward seemed to sell quite well, even if the real one NEVER existed. To each his own, I guess.

No problem with the color if you like it. As stated in the catalog, it is not an accurate paint scheme, but that does not really matter if you know that going in, and you like the engine and color enough to buy it.

Charlie

In that sense, many model trains are What Ifs.  This is true in all scales/gauges.  Many tens of thousands of models have been given paint schemes the prototypes never wore or wheel arrangements the prototype roads never owned or even are approximations of engines and rolling stock that never existed.  In HO, think of the Athearn Hustlers; in 3-rail O, think of the ubiquitous Lionel 4-4-2s.  How about that one 40' boxcar that has been lettered for every road ever in all scales?  There are far more What Ifs than any other kind of model.

i suppose that I have begun to take this hobby just too serious. I would not buy a "what if" locomotive or car at this point. 

But I don't suppose to speak for anyone else, or criticize anyone's locomotive preferences and likes. Of course, I reserve the right to comment negatively should Lionel or MTH offer the AC-9 locomotive in ACL purple colors.

Not exactly the same context as above but there's another sort of  "what if" in the Signature catalog.

The PW Alco set with the green FAs that were "...contemplated but never made."

This freelance stuff is weird; some of it I like (the Daylight cab-forward and AC-9 are not among these; the colors are inappropriate, by definition, and badly placed/over-done, to my eye).

Generally, I find it amusing only on lower-end items (RK/Traditional/the like); the RK NYO&W 4-8-2 (a Mohawk model, really) is a hoot. Heck, I even build and bash freelance locos, but these are not re-paints - they are "new" creations.

Again, I do not like the Daylight Cab-forward or the AC-9 (I have a "Regular" AC-9 and Cab-forward), partly for execution and partly as an idea on premium equipment.

Now, here's where it gets weird: I intend to order Lionel's new Pre-War paint scheme-inspired (NYC) S-2 electric set. 1:48 scale equipment with brass-colored journal boxes. And other things. Go figure. It's all madness, anyway.

==============

"In HO, think of the Athearn Hustlers". I don't mean to be irrelevant, but these were actually On30, but sold as HO "scale". They were only HO "gauge", to my knowledge.

There was a bit of a stir on this forum about the Daylight cab forward when Lionel catalogued it and I can understand people being unenthusiastic about a fantasy or what if paint scheme being applied to an iconic locomotive - and one which Lionel actually produced a fine model of in their original AC-12 TMCC version back around 2005 (I think).

Nonetheless the Daylight version was a success in terms of sales. I have one and I like it. The paint scheme is very well executed. 

As someone has already said there are other what if locos being made and indeed they've been part of Lionel's and MTH's offerings for a long time.

TM Terry posted:

But I don't suppose to speak for anyone else, or criticize anyone's locomotive preferences and likes. Of course, I reserve the right to comment negatively should Lionel or MTH offer the AC-9 locomotive in ACL purple colors.

Thank you for that. I wish more people, at least on OGR, had this attitude.   I had people actually get angry with me and send me angry PM's when I added my name to the list of those who bought the Daylight Cab Forward, tellin gme I was what was wrong with the hobby and why the companies "continue to make such crap..."

Personally I love all the things: scale, non scale, prototypical, fantasy, etc...

To each his own.

Whatever everyone likes...

Lionel did a NYC SD80 years ago, IIRC, you cant even find one now.

This is really very, very common. Take just about ANY typical 40' or 50' boxcar with roofwalks and friction bearing trucks lettered for a modern railroad...pure fiction yet extremely common in most scales.

A TON of locomotives painted in ATSF red-and-silver warbonnet that never were.

Just general mixed-up paint schemes, passenger schemes on freight locomotives. Hint: NYC's F3s were BLACK and grey, not two-tone grey.

BNSF's Heritage locomotives that do not exist.

All the starter sets that came with a 4-4-2, which doesn't look anything like any real-life 4-4-2, when a 4-4-2 was pretty much exclusively a passenger locomotive and most were retired by WWII (plenty of exceptions to that though).

All of the 2-6-4s that Lionel made through the years. 

There's a LOT of different ways people enjoy the 3-rail / Lionel hobby.

If anything, I'd like to see Lionel (or one of its competitors) producing more "what if" locomotives.  The planned-but-never-built B&O W-1 Besler steam locomotive; the planned-but-never-built successor to the PRR's S2 steam turbine; the planned-but-never-built ACE 3000.  All those railroading might-have-beens fascinate me, and I'd love to see them running on three rails, as they never had the chance to on two.  (And yeah, I know the ACE 3000 is slated to be produced by 3rd rail, but it's way beyond my hobby budget).

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

Whatever everyone likes...

 

Lionel did a NYC SD80 years ago, IIRC, you cant even find one now.

Pretty sure that's the one that is meant for the matching NYC Superliner passenger cars (also a "what-if").  (unless my memory is a little fuzzy and that was something other than an SD80, but I think it was an SD80 meant to pull those)

Never existed, but a very nice looking set, IMO!

-Dave

The hobby is based on "make believe" so who cares? Lol...if you like how it looks buy it. The only thing downside as I see it is because it is not prototypical it might hurt resale value but otherwise most of this is just pretend. 

I wonder if Taggart Transcontinental Railroad would have run ACE 3000's.

Right now I am pulling 16" Lionel California Zephyr cars with a VisionLine NYC 700e and looking at the 3rd rail. What if?

Just have fun and that's all that counts.

90% of what MTH makes in RailKing now and 90% of what Lionel did in the early modern era is made up of what-if paint schemes - E.G. MTH making Santa Fe painted Hiawathas and Lionel painting the Blue Comet scheme on a Hudson.

I don't remember anyone going up in arms of the Lionel greyhound 4-12-2, and that was in 2012.

It's really silly in my opinion to sweat the small things like this. Everyone has different interests, so just buy what you like. There's plenty of prototypical AND toy trains to go around, and I buy both.

If someone is interested in buying it, why the problem?  Lionel needs to make money just like any other train manufacturer.  Not something I would personally purchase ever, but we each enjoy our hobby in our own way. 

if I was into o gauge,,,i would buy it in a heart beat,,,,no more drab black steamers,,,what do I know,i'm a tinplater,,,,

How about this???

That NYC GG1 is beautiful and oh so wrong all at the same time!

Guys/gals, they are toys and run on 3 rail track.  Have fun and enjoy.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Guys/gals, they are toys and run on 3 rail track.  Have fun and enjoy.

The inevitable catch-all answer!

I have a very good friend that spends  his time picking locomotives apart for faults instead of running them to have fun and enjoy.  If your locomotive is highly detailed hgh end item or a low end bare bones locomotive,  they both have the same thing in common.   I run trains every day and being a toy train guy enjoy everything I have.  I greatly admire the high end scale layouts of today.  I have been involved with many of them.   My hat is off to these folks.  I remember a few years back a member did a GG-1 in Northern Pacific.  I want one and hopefully someone may know the owner so I can get some pictures.

Have fun

Marty, I believe the owner of the NP Loewy green GG1 is Bill Terry here on the forum. 

Thank you very much.  I remember that to be a very neat paint job.   Many fantasy paint jobs are owned by members and I enjoy viewing them.  

I am building a Steel mill and the railway that goes with it.

It's all fantasy out of my head I chose to call it Republic Steel because the name is so American and I like it. I am painting and decaling the locomotives blue and making my own decals the "Republic Steel" font and the colour blue is not the same as the Original Republic Steel, I don't care because it's not based on the real thing it's fantasy, it's a toy, call it what you like I don't care because it makes me happy. End of story.

Roo.

yes I have one of the np gg1 ,also a southern pacific,,,,,,but marty,,,,I just had to take a heart pill,,nyc,,,,ggi,,,,,must have,,must,,,

Terry, thank you very much for posting the pictures.   This is one of the fun things about being a toy train guy.   The NYC G motor is owned by member Gerry Morlitz.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Terry, thank you very much for posting the pictures.   This is one of the fun things about being a toy train guy.   The NYC G motor is owned by member Gerry Morlitz.

Thanks from me too, Terry & Marty. That NYC Morlitz paint job is a real eye-catcher, as are the other fantasy GG-1s. I was messing around sketching a Great Northern sky blue/white/black GG-1 on the Paint program a while back, stealing the FP45 scheme.  Maybe a Milwaukee or a GN green & orange job too? Back to the drawing board..... 

Terry, thank you very much for posting the pictures.   This is one of the fun things about being a toy train guy.   The NYC G motor is owned by member Gerry Morlitz.  Below is another G that Gerry had done for his Grandchildren.  It has Morlitz lines on the side.  Mike thought it was cool.

Well, my my my.  A very passionate bunch now, aren't we.  

I really like the rainbow striped CN cylindrical hopper.  Thank goodness there is one in real life (only one mind you, but it is real).

Thanks to Walter Matuch's RMT (formerly K-Line) streamliners and CJB Custom Painting & Designs, I have a passenger consist that matches my 2348 M&StL GP9

Good looking train.  Well done.

The Lionel "WHAT-IF" locs are a great addition to the hobby.  They're colorful, fun, amusing, entertaining and their use is limited only by the imagination.

I bought the C-F Daylight - and it quickly became a staple on my then layout.  I'm going to order the AC-9 in Daylight and it will proudly join my stable of Daylights to run on the new layout.

As many have said and we all must remember ... "These trains run on three rails."

Unwad the painties.  Accept the fantasy - or, at least, let others have theirs.

Dave45681 posted:

Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:

Whatever everyone likes...

 

Lionel did a NYC SD80 years ago, IIRC, you cant even find one now.

Pretty sure that's the one that is meant for the matching NYC Superliner passenger cars (also a "what-if").  (unless my memory is a little fuzzy and that was something other than an SD80, but I think it was an SD80 meant to pull those)

Never existed, but a very nice looking set, IMO!

-Dave

Yes they were for the 7 car superliner set. I have 4 of these beautiful engines and always looking for more.   

There was 2 on the bay awhile back that I missed out on.

I think that G motor looks real sharp but what would you expect from a Central nut. 

Doug

Such a delight to read the light hearted and accepting, enjoyment-focused comments.  Whatever one's personal taste, there should be no need to rain on someone else's parade in what is, after all, playing with trains and "just" a hobby.   I think the Daylight scheme is so attractive, you could put it on a wooden shoe and it would be beautiful.

Hot Water posted:

Bobby Cox posted:

Have been considering ordering new Lionel Legacy AC9 SP in Daylight color scheme until I read that that train. Ever existed in that color scheme. Lionel calls it a "what if' train. How do you all feel about this?

Well, first of all it really is NOT a "train", but just an articulated locomotive model. The Southern Pacific NEVER painted ANY of the AC-9 locomotives in Daylight colors, nor did they EVER paint ANY of their cab forward steam locomotives in Daylight colors. That said, the Lionel "Fantasy" Daylight painted model of the AC-12 cab forward seemed to sell quite well, even if the real one NEVER existed. To each his own, I guess.

Actually by definition a train is an engine or engines displaying marker lights, with or without cars coupled to it.

Bill

Marty, I love it every time I see that NYC GG1.  It always causes a stir in this type of topic.