Looking For Feedback on Layout Design

Looks good to me.  Plenty of hands on action plus loops for just watching the action.  So tell me, are you the big blue spot admiring your handiwork ?.....LOL

A few questions, what radius curves are you using because the wider the curves the greater the reach into the heart of the layout?  Do you have access on all sides?  When you say track blocks to you mean each is electrically isolated from the other or do you mean that is where you have power drops?  FWIW unless you are using cab control multiple blocks create a bit of a headache.  If you are using command control consider isolating locations where you would like to park locomotives and make the longer runs between turnouts a single block.  You will spend less time wiring and require fewer toggle switches.

Is the grid 12" squares?
Is there access from all sides?
Did you use SCARM or RR-Track? If so, would you post the file?
I'm thinking you could come off the curves and turn your storage yard into a "through" yard.
Is the purple passing siding long enough? The straight part appears to be 48", enough for 4 cars?

Hello!  It looks like you are blessed with a good amount of space!  I'm confused about the topic.  You wrote of "design."  All I see is a track plan/arrangement.

Dear Sir:  highly respectfully, Not trying to be a horse's hiney, just asking politely, and I'm really curious:  What railroad are you modeling?  Where is it located specifically?  What time period/season of the years/era?  What will your trains be doing?    What will the you or other operator(s) of this layout be doing?  I see one yard...is there another "end" to the layout hidden somewhere?

I couldn't give you an opinion of whether or not this track arrangement is a good arrangement for your "design" (neither could anyone else) without knowing specifics.  

One observation I do have is that I see many loops.  Where is the train going when it departs the yard?  A railroad typically has one logical path between points as it travels to service customers.  I can't figure out a path here...

I would seriously consider and respectfully suggest with all that space to get your trains actually going somewhere.  All I can figure out is that appears the trains will be circling?  Correct me if I'm wrong.

With all that space, you can come up with something truly awesome!  

Sign me

Curious  :-)

Lastly, (you are saying Thank God!) I'm with Doubledaz, I'm concerned that your layout is too wide in places and it may be exceptionally difficult to reach places to construct, maintain, upgrade or revise.  Every point on every layout should be within a 30 inch reach at a maximum WITHOUT climbing on top of it.

I was going to say "my two cents" but I gave you a good $20!  :-)  PLEASE reconsider with all that space! 

John - sorry I used the word "design" - to some the word "plan" may have been more appropriate.

As far as your inquiries about my RR:

1.  I run only Pennsylvania locos.  As far as location, not trying to be a "horse's hiney" but it could be anywhere in PA - (right now the location is my basement LOL.

2.  Time period - 1950's

3.  Don't know what you mean by "what will your trains be doing" - running well I hope.  There will be no other operators - as for me I'll be watching and enjoying them run.  There is no other "end to the layout" - one yard and that's it.

4.  I'm scratching my head about your other questions concerning "path", "circling" ???

Thank you for you help,

Paul

Paul:

Many folks in the hobby run their trains in different ways.  Some are "loop runners" which are folks who enjoy watching their trains "circling" or "looping" on tracks.  Some of us are nuts, including me, set our layouts up in such a manner that they simulate a real life railroad.  Meaning, a point to point scheme of track planning--lots of fun!

Our trains actually go somewhere; not just continuously travel the same loop.  They also do something, and that is drop-off or pickup rail-cars along the way, as real trains do.  Doing these things give you something to do.  If you are just looping you can turn the trains on and just let them run pretty much unattended.  Both the trains and you won't be doing too much and putting this as delicately as possible because it will rub many the wrong way, how long is it going to be interesting to watch the same train circle and for how long?

I've been in the hobby forty plus years and my personal observation is that sooner or later layouts that loop become dust catchers.  Not true in every case, but in most every case.  I made that same error for years.

You have a gold mine!  You do NOT have to circle or loop.  You have a HUGE space. The Pennsy has one of the PREMIER rail-fanning sites in the universe--THE HORSESHOE CURVE!!!  If you aren't familiar, and I'll bet you are, there are four main lines, in the shape of a horseshoe, climbing/descending the mountains in Pennsylvania.  I've seen many videos!  This spot is like one of the coolest on the planet!

With all YOUR SPACE!!!  You could arrange your track and pattern them after the world famous horseshoe curve!  You can check out ENDLESS volumes about the horseshoe curve, the railroad and the area from a huge variety of sources beginning with the Internet.  You could replicate that area.  You would have many people want to come and see the layout and run it!  If you are just circling, you won't get that kind of impact.

You could, in that basement, run your trains over and through the mountains and around the Horseshoe Curve!  You would have one "end" to your railroad on one side of your mountains and the other "end" in an opposite place.

Think of two table forks:  The tines are pointing away from each other and the handles are your main-line.  Your train would travel from one set of times to the other.  Then at the other, be turned around (turntable, wye or reverse loop) to return from it's point of origin.

Your railroad would have Plausibility (believably) based on reality.  Your railroad would serve a Purpose--delivering goods and people across Pennsylvania--and you would have Participation--meaning direct involvement and fun! controlling your trains across the and thru the Curve!  How cool would that be?  versus looping.

Mine is based on the line that actually travels along the southern border of Glacier National Park.  I have models of historical sites along the line!  Check out a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A89olxzXCJM

You could do something over the top!!! in your space.  

This is something to think about. 

I strongly encourage you to check out realistic versions of models of railroads, especially your Pennsy!!  :-)

You have a golden opportunity to do something great!

Hi Paul, I really like your design.

My only input would be to move the yard tracks to the left and make a longer lead track for switching / putting together and taking apart trains without fouling a main line.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Paul

Paul:

I think what people are asking is what are your intentions for your layout. If you love running trains around, your current layout looks like a lot of fun,you have the ability to run several trains on independent loops its looks like, and to simply have fun "playing with the trains". You also can have industries along the right of way

Other people do layout design based around an idea of simulating 'real' railroading, it might be a branch of a 'real' railroad, for example, or a free lanced railroad that has elements that lend themselves to prototypical operation. So they may have staging tracks, to simulate trains "coming" from someplace else or "going to" someplace else, they will have a yard layed out that can be switched, to built trains to go elsewhere, or they will have sidings arranged to allow switching in/out of a business, or passenger operations, I guess it could be called the old "form follows function" . I think what those posting about this were thinking was you may grow tired just running trains around the layout, as some people do, and it wouldn't hurt to think about whether you might not like to add some realistic elements to the plan, like perhaps an industrial spur area so you can switch cars (and still run on the mainline. 

The other thing to keep in mind is what you build is for your enjoyment, and if your idea of enjoyment changes, you can always modify or even re-do the layout if your idea of fun changes. Most people who you see with the grand layouts had a lot of layouts along the way, of varying types, the infamous "Gorre and Daphetid" of John Allen started as a 4x8 layout at one point in time, same with the layouts you see in this magazine and so forth, so there is nothing enshrined in stone with the current layout design. 

The plan doesn't give the scale (is one box 12" or 6"?), the one thing I highly recommend for enjoyment is to keep the curves as wide radius as possible, whether 'running' the trains or building a prototypical like layout, larger radius curves make it a lot more fun, including if you decide to run 'full speed ahead" like we did when we were kids *lol*. 

As Paul suggested above, adding a longer switching lead will allow trains to continue running on the main line while performing switching operations.

Since the OGR FORUM tends toward O-gauge trains, I'm assuming your layout is intended for O-gauge three-rail trains.  With access to all the space in a full basement, your model railroad empire could allocate tabletop space to action accessories by Lionel, MTH, or other manufacturers. Inasmuch as Pennsylvania is coal country, these accessories come to mind:
   * Lionel Coal Ramp, with Coal Loader posed underneath it; this combo creates a continuous operation
   * Lionel #97 Coal Elevator (or its modern remake)
   * MTH Coal Loader with Clamshell Bucket, with coal unloading release
   * K-Line Remote Control Coal Dump Car with hand-held controller (unloads coal anywhere on the layout)
   * Lionel Rotating Coal Dump, with "Bathtub" gondola dump cars - a spectacular accessory
   * Coal Tipple, a non-operating building that could be placed at a mountainside coal mine opening where coal is
      picked up for delivery
   * IHC American Power & Light building, with K-Line Dump Bins alongside to receive coal from the coal mine.

Unfortunately, coal handling operations on a model RR can be messy (just like real life), so keep a Dustbuster handy to pick up and "recycle" spilled coal.  If your layout will be open to kids in the family and their friends, these and other action accessories will be great fun for them.  Yes, action accessories require space and rightly placed trackage to/from them for realistic operations.

You've made clear that you are a "runner" not a "realist," so this and other suggestions may be "out of bounds" for you.
RULE #1: Have fun!
RULE #2: It's your railroad. Make it right for you, not "them."
RULE #3: Many model railroads grow in size & complexity as your hobby interests change. Fortunately, you have space to accommodate your future dreams.

Carry on ...
Mike
(ritrainguy)

Dan Padova posted:

Looks good to me.  Plenty of hands on action plus loops for just watching the action.  So tell me, are you the big blue spot admiring your handiwork ?.....LOL

Thanx, Dan - don't go for the "point to point" layout schemes - love to sit back and watch them run.

Paul

Railrunnin posted:

Hi Paul, I really like your design.

My only input would be to move the yard tracks to the left and make a longer lead track for switching / putting together and taking apart trains without fouling a main line.

Keep us updated on your progress.

Paul

Thanx, Paul - I like your idea - will incorporate it into my plan!  Thanx for the constructive suggestion!

Paul

bigkid posted:

Paul:

I think what people are asking is what are your intentions for your layout. If you love running trains around, your current layout looks like a lot of fun,you have the ability to run several trains on independent loops its looks like, and to simply have fun "playing with the trains". You also can have industries along the right of way

Other people do layout design based around an idea of simulating 'real' railroading, it might be a branch of a 'real' railroad, for example, or a free lanced railroad that has elements that lend themselves to prototypical operation. So they may have staging tracks, to simulate trains "coming" from someplace else or "going to" someplace else, they will have a yard layed out that can be switched, to built trains to go elsewhere, or they will have sidings arranged to allow switching in/out of a business, or passenger operations, I guess it could be called the old "form follows function" . I think what those posting about this were thinking was you may grow tired just running trains around the layout, as some people do, and it wouldn't hurt to think about whether you might not like to add some realistic elements to the plan, like perhaps an industrial spur area so you can switch cars (and still run on the mainline. 

The other thing to keep in mind is what you build is for your enjoyment, and if your idea of enjoyment changes, you can always modify or even re-do the layout if your idea of fun changes. Most people who you see with the grand layouts had a lot of layouts along the way, of varying types, the infamous "Gorre and Daphetid" of John Allen started as a 4x8 layout at one point in time, same with the layouts you see in this magazine and so forth, so there is nothing enshrined in stone with the current layout design. 

The plan doesn't give the scale (is one box 12" or 6"?), the one thing I highly recommend for enjoyment is to keep the curves as wide radius as possible, whether 'running' the trains or building a prototypical like layout, larger radius curves make it a lot more fun, including if you decide to run 'full speed ahead" like we did when we were kids *lol*. 

Hi Bigkid - thanx for your help and advice - for me I like running and watching the trains - The largest curves on this "plan" are 081 (outside mainline) The inside mainline is composed of 072 curves - the smallest curves used will be on the raised oval on the right side 063.  I'm using Atlas 3 rail track for years now and think they are great to work with.

Each box is 12" - using 11 sheets of 4 X 8 plywood with homesote on top.  

Thanx for your input!

Paul

Mike H Mottler posted:

Since the OGR FORUM tends toward O-gauge trains, I'm assuming your layout is intended for O-gauge three-rail trains.  With access to all the space in a full basement, your model railroad empire could allocate tabletop space to action accessories by Lionel, MTH, or other manufacturers. Inasmuch as Pennsylvania is coal country, these accessories come to mind:
   * Lionel Coal Ramp, with Coal Loader posed underneath it; this combo creates a continuous operation
   * Lionel #97 Coal Elevator (or its modern remake)
   * MTH Coal Loader with Clamshell Bucket, with coal unloading release
   * K-Line Remote Control Coal Dump Car with hand-held controller (unloads coal anywhere on the layout)
   * Lionel Rotating Coal Dump, with "Bathtub" gondola dump cars - a spectacular accessory
   * Coal Tipple, a non-operating building that could be placed at a mountainside coal mine opening where coal is
      picked up for delivery
   * IHC American Power & Light building, with K-Line Dump Bins alongside to receive coal from the coal mine.

Unfortunately, coal handling operations on a model RR can be messy (just like real life), so keep a Dustbuster handy to pick up and "recycle" spilled coal.  If your layout will be open to kids in the family and their friends, these and other action accessories will be great fun for them.  Yes, action accessories require space and rightly placed trackage to/from them for realistic operations.

You've made clear that you are a "runner" not a "realist," so this and other suggestions may be "out of bounds" for you.
RULE #1: Have fun!
RULE #2: It's your railroad. Make it right for you, not "them."
RULE #3: Many model railroads grow in size & complexity as your hobby interests change. Fortunately, you have space to accommodate your future dreams.

Carry on ...
Mike
(ritrainguy)

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Mike - you are right on - what some guys like others rather not - I'm a runner so I think this plan suits my needs and desires - much of my accessories are coal related and coal cars are abundant - thanx again for your input!  Much appreciated.

Paul

necrails posted:

A few questions, what radius curves are you using because the wider the curves the greater the reach into the heart of the layout?  Do you have access on all sides?  When you say track blocks to you mean each is electrically isolated from the other or do you mean that is where you have power drops?  FWIW unless you are using cab control multiple blocks create a bit of a headache.  If you are using command control consider isolating locations where you would like to park locomotives and make the longer runs between turnouts a single block.  You will spend less time wiring and require fewer toggle switches.

 

Hi necrails - curves are 081 (outside loop) and 072 (inner loop) and 063 raised oval on right.  I do have easy access on all sides.  Track blocks mean that each of the "colored" areas are electrically isolated from the next block (using a middle rail insulating pin) with power drops to each block.  Both outside rails will be common.  At this time I'm only running DCS - the sidings and yard tracks will be isolated for parking locos and rolling stock.  Thanx for your advice!

Paul

DoubleDAZ posted:

Is the grid 12" squares?
Is there access from all sides?
Did you use SCARM or RR-Track? If so, would you post the file?
I'm thinking you could come off the curves and turn your storage yard into a "through" yard.
Is the purple passing siding long enough? The straight part appears to be 48", enough for 4 cars?

Hi Dave - grids are 12" squares with access on all sides - I'm using Railmodeller for my software.  The purple passing siding is much too short but thinking about placement of buildings and accessories that is the only place for this siding.  Thanx for your help, Dave!

Paul

PRR Bruce posted:

As Paul suggested above, adding a longer switching lead will allow trains to continue running on the main line while performing switching operations.

I like your idea, Bruce - 

Thank you

Paul