My Layout Power Control Scheme

My simple one transformer layout is plugged into one of these and another for the overhead lighting. Very simple and easy.

I have all my layout power plugged into a power strip and the power strip plugged into a Woods remote receiver. One push of the button powers up the entire layout including the five powehouses and the Cab 1-L base. My LED lighted station is always on when the layout is powered, so that's my indicator of power on or off.

I recently added a timed outlet to my work bench, just in case I leave its power turned on.

Ray

Ray, I needed the separate transformer controls as that's how I reset the breakers on the Lionel PH180 bricks.  Since they're inside the layout and I may not want to stop the presses and raise the bridge to get to them, this is a convenient way to reset them remotely.

My master will probably also turn on stuff like accessory lights when I get to that stage of building the layout.

John,

I never thought of that possibility, being able to reset the Powerhouse breakers remotely, my head is starting to swim. Although my Powerhouses are on the perimeter of my layout, when one has tripped I need to walk to that location to reset.  I have only had a Powerhouse breaker trip once during a "play trains" session, most often one of the Powermasters trip and that I can reset from the Cab 1-L. I guess you may be talking beyond my understanding but, yes a great idea. I not being an EE don't comprehend how that works, unless there may be a breaker in each of the plug in modules, I looked for the answer at their store but couldn't find it.

Thanks

Ray

I use a similar set up although on a much smaller scale. I try to keep the "kill switch" handy when I'm running so I can shut everything down quickly if needed.

Simple solution to power control John. I've fiddled around with various wi-fi enabled devices and they are pretty cool. Now if you have an Alexa or Google smart device you can do it with voice controls too. No need to carry a remote around.
I'm still not at the point of talking to stuff and telling it what to do. A little bit too "2001 Space Odyssey" for me. At least Amazon didn't call it Hal.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Simple solution to power control John. I've fiddled around with various wi-fi enabled devices and they are pretty cool. Now if you have an Alexa or Google smart device you can do it with voice controls too. No need to carry a remote around.
I'm still not at the point of talking to stuff and telling it what to do. A little bit too "2001 Space Odyssey" for me. At least Amazon didn't call it Hal.

Bob

You mean Lionel Voice Control?!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0L6mvZ6TEw

@Rayin"S" posted:

John,

I never thought of that possibility, being able to reset the Powerhouse breakers remotely, my head is starting to swim. Although my Powerhouses are on the perimeter of my layout, when one has tripped I need to walk to that location to reset.  I have only had a Powerhouse breaker trip once during a "play trains" session, most often one of the Powermasters trip and that I can reset from the Cab 1-L. I guess you may be talking beyond my understanding but, yes a great idea. I not being an EE don't comprehend how that works, unless there may be a breaker in each of the plug in modules, I looked for the answer at their store but couldn't find it.

Ray, the PH180 breaker actually picks a relay to interrupt power.  The button on the transformer simply drops the relay out and allows power to flow again (assuming the overload is not still present).  So, just cycling power to the brick restores the power.  I don't use any PowerMasters as I have the TIU to do what little conventional I might run.  Being strictly command for the most part, I just need 18 volts on the tracks and I'm happy.

@RSJB18 posted:

Simple solution to power control John. I've fiddled around with various wi-fi enabled devices and they are pretty cool. Now if you have an Alexa or Google smart device you can do it with voice controls too. No need to carry a remote around.

I'm not ready for the vagaries of voice control, we have several of the Echo Dot devices, and they're all in a box now.  Too many times you have to "explain" things to them, and occasionally they spring to life for no reason.  They're are a bit too intrusive for my liking, they'd occasionally respond to innocuous sounds.  We even had the cops show up once, turns out Alexa was listening to a TV show and decided there was a domestic disturbance happening!  I'm not ready for Big Brother just yet, we're getting too much of that outside the home!

My feeling exactly John. Way too intrusive for me too.

That's a nice simple solution for your needs.

I noticed the 15A rating on those switches, which is likely what your home circuit is anyway, but it had me wondering what kind of current draw you have from the whole layout - or is that dependent on what you are running at a given moment?  I'm not exactly sure how that works.

Do the 180’s use the same fold back current limit technology Lionel used on the ZW-L as it relates to a short.  As long as it is not a dead short the circuit breaker does not pop and the power is restored by turning off that channel on the transformer.

Do the 180’s also have a physical circuit breaker that would need to be pushed back in in order to restore power.

Ray, the PH180 breaker actually picks a relay to interrupt power.  The button on the transformer simply drops the relay out and allows power to flow again (assuming the overload is not still present).  So, just cycling power to the brick restores the power.  I don't use any PowerMasters as I have the TIU to do what little conventional I might run.  Being strictly command for the most part, I just need 18 volts on the tracks and I'm happy.

John, Thank you so much for explaining that, it did not penetrate before but now I understand how that works, thanks for putting the cookies on the shelf where I can reach them!

Ray

John, the picture of the controllers plugged in, the way the photo was shot it reminds me of the outlets in the kid's house in "A Christmas Story" *lol* (though I know your setup will not spark and blow the breaker. 

@JD2035RR posted:

That's a nice simple solution for your needs.

I noticed the 15A rating on those switches, which is likely what your home circuit is anyway, but it had me wondering what kind of current draw you have from the whole layout - or is that dependent on what you are running at a given moment?  I'm not exactly sure how that works.

The circuit they're plugged into is a 15A circuit.  Figuring 200 watts max for each PH180 transformer (that ain't ever gonna' happen in real life), and maybe a couple hundred watts for any accessory stuff that gets added, I'm nowhere near the 1800 watts of capacity on one 15A circuit.

@WaynePa posted:

Do the 180’s use the same fold back current limit technology Lionel used on the ZW-L as it relates to a short.  As long as it is not a dead short the circuit breaker does not pop and the power is restored by turning off that channel on the transformer.

Do the 180’s also have a physical circuit breaker that would need to be pushed back in in order to restore power.

The PH180 has a breaker that opens and stays open.  It's actually a two-channel sensing circuit.  For a slowly increasing overload, it allows some extra time to trip based on the assumption that it might be a startup surge.  OTOH, for an immediate short circuit, it trips lightning fast.  In either case, once the breaker is tripped, you either have to power cycle the brick input or push the button on the brick to restore power.

Since my bricks are inside my layout center opening and under the table, I don't want to have to go in there to reset them since I'm normally operating from outside the layout.  By having the ability to power cycle them remotely, that problem is solved.

Yes, I'm going to make better labels for the bricks, just have to get round-toit.

@bigkid posted:

John, the picture of the controllers plugged in, the way the photo was shot it reminds me of the outlets in the kid's house in "A Christmas Story" *lol* (though I know your setup will not spark and blow the breaker.

Yep, I actually have some decent power strips there to plug them in.  There are no cube taps in the picture, let's be kind here!

For some reason only the attachment showed up.  I have a tendency to loose remotes therefore i decided to go old school.  The 180 bricks plug into an outlet . The outlets are controlled by a switch.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Yep, I actually have some decent power strips there to plug them in.  There are no cube taps in the picture, let's be kind here!

Don't laugh, I had an acquaintance (won't admit he is a friend) who said he couldn't understand why in his basement that he kept tripping this one breaker, there 'only was one thing' plugged into it. The guy had a power strip (not a heavy duty one, mind you) that had triple taps plugged into every one of the outlets, had like 4 I think, and bunch of stuff plugged into the taps, pretty much full. What made it worse was somehow, whether it was defective or more likely him, the breaker on the power strip was shorted or something (I suspect he did it, if those break, normally it is in the open position).  I suspect he had fools luck, that he had so much plugged in there it was drawing so much current that the wires never had a chance to melt. When I pointed out to him how stupid that was, he said "but the stuff in there can't draw that much"......

@amtrack5899 posted:

For some reason only the attachment showed up.  I have a tendency to loose remotes therefore i decided to go old school.  The 180 bricks plug into an outlet . The outlets are controlled by a switch.

That's why I have four of the remotes, surely one will be around when I look for it!

I also like the fact that I can pop one into my pocket as I run, so I always have ready access to the kill switch or the ability to reset a transformer.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's why I have four of the remotes, surely one will be around when I look for it!

I need four of everything... well, one wife will do.

Four wives would surely kill me, at least one of them would get mad enough to do it.

Great Idea.  I have a 20 amp circuit that I run to two powerstrips with 15 amp breakers.   Since the switches are rated at 15 amps, am I good to place them in the power strips with the 15 AMP breakers?    I assume I could not plug them directly into the 20 amp circuit.

Thanks for your help.

Many of my house electrical outlets are controlled thru Alexa and Echo. I just say Alexa "dining room light on" and the kitchen light goes off.  It's easy!.

We deep-sixed Alexa here.  Too many times it would either suddenly start talking for no reason, and when it apparently heard a TV show that sounded like a crime happening and the State Police showed up, that was the last straw!  I'm not ready for big brother just yet, it's getting too invasive.  The Echo's are all in a box in my closet.

John,

Are those banana jacks on the input/output sides of the TIU? Any problems using them? I’m finding that the retainer lugs sometimes loosen up on the TIU. I’ve over cranked one and stripped it, doesn’t take much.

If the nut on the inside of the TIU is loose, there is no good way to connect without tightening it.  That's something that's a perennial issue with the TIU.

John,

If the fasteners inside the TIU loosening are an ongoing problem, might you be able to use a low strength Loctite product such as 242 to secure the nuts?

Ray

I have an RF remote to control the lights in my staging area.  Worked great for a few months maybe.  After that, I noticed a number of times that the lights were on on the morning even though I turned them off the night before.  I still use the remote to control brightness, but I use a manual switch to turn them on and off.

Hope you have better luck with yours.

It might be overkill but I have all my layout electronics fed by an APC Smart-UPS power supply.

One good lightning strike in my opinion could potentially affect a whole slew of computer boards running the layout along with all the locomotives. The Smart UPS delivers clean AC to the layout while also providing quite ample lightning/surge protection.

Thoughts?

Chuck

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

We deep-sixed Alexa here.  Too many times it would either suddenly start talking for no reason, and when it apparently heard a TV show that sounded like a crime happening and the State Police showed up, that was the last straw!  I'm not ready for big brother just yet, it's getting too invasive.  The Echo's are all in a box in my closet.

Yes.  At some point, Nomad will want to return to launch point and sterilize.    

George

@Rail Dawg +1 on the SmartUPS! You must also work in IT, haha!

I use a similar product for my transformers. It also has GPIO so you can install a remote switch for on/off. Fantastic surge protection for sensitive electronics.

Surgex SX1115RT Power Conditioner

@gunrunnerjohn, I am with you on Alexa! No big brother in my train room!

@Lehigh74 posted:

I have an RF remote to control the lights in my staging area.  Worked great for a few months maybe.  After that, I noticed a number of times that the lights were on on the morning even though I turned them off the night before.  I still use the remote to control brightness, but I use a manual switch to turn them on and off.

Hope you have better luck with yours.

I was thinking the same thing!  I have a remote for a ceiling fan and light in our sunroom.  Whenever there is a power outage or interruption, the light goes on.

John, I like what you have done, but I think I would put a mechanical master switch that would cut all power.   It seems to me that the modules you are using are always ON waiting for a signal and it seems there are so many signals floating around.

On my layout, I have separate transformers for lights, signals, and accessories so that when all I want to do is run trains, I can cut power to the separate transformers.  Your modules would allow me individually cut on lights or signals or accessories.  Thank you for sharing!

By the way, Your layout is looking great.

Happy railroading,

Don

@Rayin"S" posted:

John,

If the fasteners inside the TIU loosening are an ongoing problem, might you be able to use a low strength Loctite product such 242 to secure the nuts?

Ray

You bet, that's what I've done to a number of them.

@Lehigh74 posted:

I have an RF remote to control the lights in my staging area.  Worked great for a few months maybe.  After that, I noticed a number of times that the lights were on on the morning even though I turned them off the night before.  I still use the remote to control brightness, but I use a manual switch to turn them on and off.

Hope you have better luck with yours.

These have digital encoding for the controls, I'm pretty sure they aren't going to be randomly operating, but we'll see.  If I have a problem, it's a simple scheme to replace.

@DGJONES posted:

I was thinking the same thing!  I have a remote for a ceiling fan and light in our sunroom.  Whenever there is a power outage or interruption, the light goes on.

John, I like what you have done, but I think I would put a mechanical master switch that would cut all power.   It seems to me that the modules you are using are always ON waiting for a signal and it seems there are so many signals floating around.

On my layout, I have separate transformers for lights, signals, and accessories so that when all I want to do is run trains, I can cut power to the separate transformers.  Your modules would allow me individually cut on lights or signals or accessories.  Thank you for sharing!

There's actually only one of them that can turn on the overall power, so if it ever becomes an issue, I'll just add a switch at the front of the layout and control the whole circuit.  The other four wireless receivers just allow me to toggle the individual transformer power to accomplish a remote reset of the PH180 breaker.  When I'm wiring accessories, I'll be adding controls for them.

@Rail Dawg posted:

It might be overkill but I have all my layout electronics fed by an APC Smart-UPS power supply...thoughts?

Chuck

Chuck, I like the idea of a UPS.  I looked at the install docs for the Smart-UPS you referenced and noticed it had a 2 x 3 array of output receptacles to connect to your power supplies.  Are these outputs also in phase with one another?  I'm assuming multiple transformers/power supplies still need to be in phase with each other even when going through a UPS first; am I correct in this assumption?

Anyone else with knowledge can opine as well.

Tom

I'm not much of an electrician, so hoping this isn't a dumb question.  I like the idea of using these remote control outlets for controlling layout power.  Do the remote outlets get plugged into a power strip or surge protector, or can the power strip/surge protector be plugged into the remote outlet ?

Mike

You can use a surge protector before or after the remote controlled outlet boxes.  Note that certain surge protectors have been known to affect the TMCC/Legacy signal.

John, I'm running DCS all the way.  Will a Trip Lite Ultra surge protector impact that signal ?

Mike

DCS has no issues with power strips or surge protectors on the power lines.