Need help with Track plan

There are far greater minds than mine who will help. However, what do you want to achieve operationally? Try the 54 degree track to evaluate how much space that provides. Use paper and pencil to let your mind wander and see what happens.
You could also consider an upper level where you could position a town with your Union Station with passenger platforms on the lower level. This upper level could tie into your mountain.
Also, what are you doing for HVAC in your garage?

Jay

Hi Jay and thanks for replying.

After posting last night, I realized I likely only have two choices...trying the 54 as you suggest to see what I can do there or have a lift-up right at the front of the layout between the left and right sections. I have been hesitant to do that because I feel like it would be a challenge to install but I have read lots over the years from OGR and other publications that lift ups are not all that hard...so maybe that is the best way to go. I did plan to have an elevated line going around the sides and up into the mountain/tunnel but that line would return to ground level at the front of the layout and in front of the mountain. But it sounds like you are suggesting two independent lines that do not connect?

As for HVAC...there is none. I live in Southern CA so I'm not as concerned as I might be if I lived in a cold/snow state. Part of my garage conversion was to install electrical and drywall on a large wall which I did insulate. I will be able to open the garage door most days for fresh air...on cold days, lol,  yes we get a few here, I may use a small space heater. In the summer, from the end of July to end of September its likely to be too hot even with garage door open so I will stay in the pool or inside the house where there is HVAC.

I started with a basic U shaped layout to get something started and expanded from out from it. I was going to suggest using a lift bridge but held off. You seem open to it now. Even if you went with tighter curves. The engine you mention looks good with !8” passenger cars. A good rule of thumb on S curves. Is to have a straight portion in the S at least as long as your longest car. Say 20 inches. I just don’t seem the room there to do it.
I would look at building more along the walls of your garage. Deep enough so you can reach comfortably to the back. High enough so you can sit on a low mechanics stool and wire. Paint the walls or go with a backdrop. Go with the largest curves you can. You never know what you might come home with engine wise. Lift outs aren’t hard to build if you take your time and use quality hardware and material that’s stable. I know it’s only an oval design. But an oval doesn’t have to be perfectly straight to the benchwork. Or drawn with a compass as far as curves. If you opt for using flextrack and easements on your curves you can make it a little more interesting.

Check out Mianne Benchwork for a lift bridge. You can incorporate it into what you build.

Check out Al Pugliese Trains on You Tube. The one with the York Show. I believe the company is East Coast Enterprises he interviews. Pretty good demo of a ready made laser cut lift bridge that can be customized as far as length and style. Neither of these are cheap but what isn’t and they both work very well.

@Roy MacKinnon Roy  Looks like your space is 9x13.  It would be helpful to understand how you want to run your trains. The MTH Premier GS4 has big drivers and will show any bumps in the track. Be meticulous on your track laying.  Look at my TwinPines 1 layout (about the same sized room) and @Mark Boyce s layout for ideas.  I think you may find getting a dog bone is not going to work unless you use really tight curves.  Otherwise you might consider a point to point. I like to watch trains run - so I needed a "loop". 

@Dave C and ScoutDad:

Thanks to both for your response. Great advise on the straight for S curves...makes total sense. I will absolutely checkout Mianne ( I would not have thought of them for a lift out) and East Coast. I'll watch Al Pugliese Trains on You Tube as well. Around the walls in my garage will not work so it looks like I will try a new layout with a lift out and 54 curves. Right now I have the benchwork at 9.5 x 14 and I want a loop vs point to point because I too like just watching the machines run I'll check put your layout and Mark's as well...thanks for the tips...very appreciated!

Roy, congratulations on your semi-retirement!  I was in the same position as you when I started a thread similar to yours which Jeff (ScoutingDad) referred to.  That was back in January 2017.  You can find it here Blackwater Canyon Line  At that time, I had mismeasured the size of the room at 12x12.  This is the first preliminary plan based on those dimensions.  The lower level U-shaped track used 054 curves, but oh the problems with the S-curves.  I believe Dave was showing me that would be a tough row to hoe. First preliminary plan

Once I got into it, I realized the room is 11' 6" x 11' 4" and went through several plans, false starts, and even a layout with track completely laid, wired, and operational.  Last winter, I adapted the previous iteration for two 054 loops, high and low, connected by two inclines, a tiny engine service facility on the high line, and two small yards on the low line. 

The video shows more clearly what I have.  I'm standing at the right center of the drawing as I record the video.

I didn't have room on the layout for the river I wanted, so I made my lift-up out of bridges.  This is much more elaborate than lots of lift-ups.  I have a 4 x 6 center access space in the middle. 

Just one comment about using a garage for your layout when it could get hot; DON'T!!  The two worst enemies of "outdoor" (read as garage) model railroading are heat & cold.  (Rain, sleet or snow could also be discussed, but your garage should protect your trains from them.) Temperature control prevents problems with modern electronics and track laying techniques.  While it may not be likely that it will get cold enough in your area to do major damage, if it gets hot enough for you to head to the pool or to air conditioning, your trains will suffer, even if you don't.

Just my opinion, of course.

Chuck

Hey Mark, I really enjoyed your two bridges up, two bridges down.  VERY IMPRESSIVE. That is not an easy task.  Having one mechanical bridge is hard enough.  However, having two synchronized is absolutely awesome.

Congratulations on your engineering feat.  

@SantaFeJim posted:

Hey Mark, I really enjoyed your two bridges up, two bridges down.  VERY IMPRESSIVE. That is not an easy task.  Having one mechanical bridge is hard enough.  However, having two synchronized is absolutely awesome.

Congratulations on your engineering feat.  

Thank you, Jim!

Thanks Chuck for the advice about avoiding the garage but I have no other choice… either there or nowhere… I’ll let the forum know how that goes.

Extreme heat and cold are not good for a layout but humidity is worse.  You'll need to watch it especially during your rainy season.  Definitely seal the wood and any homasote or similar that you use.

Lift out/up access does not have to be complex.  A piece of rigid plywood with locating pins will work nicely.  Add a plug for power.  You can always upgrade it at a later date.

Jan

Hi Jan,

by sealing I assume you mean painting? I was going to use ridged insulation from Corning rather than homasote, assume that doesn’t need sealing prior to paint ? Maybe  I should consider a dehumidifier for our rain months.

@PRR1950 posted:

Temperature control prevents problems with modern electronics ...

Just my opinion, of course.

Chuck

Not!

I hear ya, but ..

Electronics are indeed sensitive to high temperatures, but high in this context means much greater than the hottest temps you'll ever see in an outdoor space, even in Death Valley in the summer.

And even if you include the difference between storage and operating temperature there's still no issue.

Build away!

Mike

Thanks Mike. If I keep the door closed in the hottest dog days of summer the interior temp will likely not go above 90 to 95 even when external temp is 104 to 108… but we have seen a few 110s.

Now I just need to watch the humidity… thankfully I’m not trying this garage layout in Phoenix because it would be game over. Our only real humidity is when it rains.

Here's a rough SCARM design just to see what fits using O63 outer and O54 inner curves with Ross switches. There are 4 cut and 2 flex tracks. The top elevation is 6" for a 4.7% grade (purple tracks), but that can be reduced if desired.

Wow…. This great thanks so much Dave!!

My second layout was in a garage in Phoenix,  I had no problems running or storing trains. During the high summer when it was 126 outside, did make it a bit too stuffy in the garage for train running though.

Thanks Darrell… I meant no disrespect to Pheonix… just remember being there in the summer and the humidity was off the charts. Nice to know a garage layout can work.

I can’t imagine the humidity being “off the charts” here unless it’s raining or about to rain, it’s rarely over 50%. Of course, 100°+ can make it feel like a lot more, especially during the monsoon season. I’ve lived here for 29 years now and also had a garage layout. It was semi-portable on rigid foam with 1x3 grid framing, so no issues from humidity. I did have a double-sheet of 1/2” plywood garage layout of sorts in Fairfield CA and it was affected by humidity, but then 1/2” does warp fairly easily and it wasn’t supported very well since I was just playing around at the time.

Dave, Roy might have meant humidity was off the bottom end of the chart

JAn

Roy, Dave worked tirelessly with me on numerous iterations of my layout plans.  He really helped me get a handle on what I could fit in my space.  Then others on the Forum pitched in valuable ideas that ended in the monstrosity I posted above.    Of course mine has been just shy of 7 years in the making.

Jan, I did not think of that, makes sense.

Mark, we’ve had a lot of fun over those years and certainly learned a lot. Hard to believe it’s been 7 years though, doesn’t seem that long. You worked me so hard, I’m on my 2nd laptop. 🤣🤣🤣

@DoubleDAZ posted:

Mark, we’ve had a lot of fun over those years and certainly learned a lot. Hard to believe it’s been 7 years though, doesn’t seem that long. You worked me so hard, I’m on my 2nd laptop. 🤣🤣🤣

We have had a lot of fun with it!  Second laptop!  😆😆😆

My layout is garaged.  Dehumidifier in summer is essential - and I'm at the 45th parallel.  Layout bay is insulated/heated - I try to maintain 45 degrees when its not occupied.   So far, so good after 3 years.

Are you in southern CA? We have dry heat here in the summer and often very low humidity… hence the risk of wild fires on our hills. I think I will buy a humidity gauge before I invest in a dehumidifier… I’m thinking the rainy season will be my biggest issue with humidity so already planning on painting all my bench work and the table tops.

Thanks again to everyone who has shared their thoughts. I am truly grateful as their are no train clubs close to me and it is very rare I meet anyone into trains regardless of gauge.

Roy