New Haven R-1 Mountain Build

Very nice. Don't forget to mount the Elesco feedwater pump on the Fireman's side, plus those large water supply lines to and from the Elesco bundle heater (large diameter solid solder generally works well for such lines).

Nice project. Looking forward to your future postings and completion.

Great modeling! JohnA

Thank you Hot Water, Dave, and John.

Hot Water - I have a roll of .062" solder I have from the late, great Radio Shack that looks to be perfect, thanks for the suggestion. I just removed the supply line from the cab to the check valve this morning. I have a precision scale casting for the spiral-wrapped steam lines from the cylinders to the heater, I'll use solder for the other pipes (to and from the pump, the condensate line, and from the heater to the check valve.

One thing I just noticed following the piping diagrams supplied by the NHRHTA - the feedwater heater only supplies the fireman's side check valve, while a traditional injector supplies the engineer's side. Was this a normal setup, to only preheat half the incoming water?

Pipe and check valve removed, feedwater heater pump and an ATS box will eventually go where the current air pump is.

Solder fitment in the check valve:

I finished painting the Delta trailing truck and reinstalled it:

Lastly for this past week, I 3D modeled a set of air pump shields and sent them off to be printed. I expect to have some revisions after this first pass, but images of the current model below.

~Chris

Fantastic work.  I’m looking forward to your next progress update.  

@C.Vigs posted:

Thank you Hot Water, Dave, and John.

Hot Water - I have a roll of .062" solder I have from the late, great Radio Shack that looks to be perfect, thanks for the suggestion. I just removed the supply line from the cab to the check valve this morning. I have a precision scale casting for the spiral-wrapped steam lines from the cylinders to the heater, I'll use solder for the other pipes (to and from the pump, the condensate line, and from the heater to the check valve.

One thing I just noticed following the piping diagrams supplied by the NHRHTA - the feedwater heater only supplies the fireman's side check valve, while a traditional injector supplies the engineer's side. Was this a normal setup, to only preheat half the incoming water?

Yes. The feedwater system would always be the primary method of supplying water to the boiler, while the Injector would have been the "back-up" supply system. The ICC, now the FRA, required/requires two methods of supplying water to the boiler.

~Chris

A little more progress from the weekend. I cut the engineers side water pipe short, and cut and rotated the corresponding check valve. On the prototype the pipe dips below the running board and the check valve is mounted vertically.

I removed the headlight and marker lights from the smokebox front, and filled the marker light mounting and wire holes with Bondo. The marker lights will be replaced and relocated to the smokebox sides. The feedwater heater was also covered in order to fill some voids and mold patterns in the casting.

Last thing filled with Bondo was the mounting holes for the water pipe on the firemans side. Lettering was also removed - some lacquer thinner on an old t-shirt took it off in seconds.

Now here's the rub - it seems Lionel originally painted the engine after all the separate piping details were applied, so there is a pretty prominent shadow on the boiler underneath where the water pipes used to be. Sanding the filler in the mounting holes flat also caused some scuffs. While I can, I'd rather not repaint the whole boiler, so I'd like suggestions on how to cover these areas and blend them in. I am already going to brush paint the smokebox.

~Chris

I think if you touch up with black, then spray with Dullcote, it will hardly be noticeable. JohnA

Chris, if you decide to paint. Look at SEM Trim Black for paint. You can probably find it at your local auto parts store. Expect to pay between 15 to 20 dollars. It’s a satin black and is suppose to be a good match to Lionel’s steamers. Doesn’t require primer and should be pretty durable as far as handling seeing it’s from the automotive field.

Thanks for the advice, John and Dave.

I did pick up a can of SEM as a backup.

Next purchasing obstacle is the tender. I posted on the Wanted to Buy forum a few weeks ago, looking for a Vanderbilt tender or one of the large, 6-axle tenders from a Mohawk. I haven't found one yet, but I do have an opportunity to buy an 'almost' complete Mohawk tender frame (includes frame, trucks, and full TMCC electronics except the audio board). I can separately get a Mohawk tender shell, so the only thing I'd be missing is the audio board.

It looks like the frame has a Railsounds 5 package on it (no AD20 board), and I have a Railsounds 4 package in the smaller USRA tender that came with the Mountain. From what I have read, the AD20 functionality is in the audio board on RS 5 systems, so if I put the RS 4 audio board in an RS 5 package I would lose whatever functionality the AD20 adds. Does the AD20 board only control the rear light and coupler, or does it affect the sounds as well? As another option, now that Lionel has purged them, does anyone have a source for a large steam RS5 audio board?

On a side note, if anyone who sees this is willing to sell one of these tenders complete, I'm still open to that as well.

~Chris

@C.Vigs posted:

Thanks for the advice, John and Dave.

I did pick up a can of SEM as a backup.

Next purchasing obstacle is the tender. I posted on the Wanted to Buy forum a few weeks ago, looking for a Vanderbilt tender or one of the large, 6-axle tenders from a Mohawk. I haven't found one yet, but I do have an opportunity to buy an 'almost' complete Mohawk tender frame (includes frame, trucks, and full TMCC electronics except the audio board). I can separately get a Mohawk tender shell, so the only thing I'd be missing is the audio board.

It looks like the frame has a Railsounds 5 package on it (no AD20 board), and I have a Railsounds 4 package in the smaller USRA tender that came with the Mountain. From what I have read, the AD20 functionality is in the audio board on RS 5 systems, so if I put the RS 4 audio board in an RS 5 package I would lose whatever functionality the AD20 adds. Does the AD20 board only control the rear light and coupler, or does it affect the sounds as well? As another option, now that Lionel has purged them, does anyone have a source for a large steam RS5 audio board?

On a side note, if anyone who sees this is willing to sell one of these tenders complete, I'm still open to that as well.

~Chris

Chris, practice with the SEM,  it lays beautiful when you master the spray out …..it’s a true urethane product so she’s loosey goosey when wet,…..allow a flash between coats, I’ve turned a few folks onto the SEM, and they’ve never looked back,….I use the SEM satin trim black exclusively, but I buy the qt cans, and use a gun, ……the rattle can works very well though,…..like I said, once you’ve mastered your spray outs, you’ll never put it down…..tricks I’ve learned with both the rattle cans, & the catalyzed mix, a little wetter, retains some gloss, a little dryer, and she’ll dye back for ya,…..you can really play around with that product, ….hide is almost immediate, and the mil is thin enough not to kill details …..

Pat

I spent some more time on the feedwater heater this weekend. I want to dry-fit everything to make sure I like the pipe routings before painting and gluing, so I've adopted a pin-in-hole construction. Small holes are drilled into each component, and short section of phos. bronze wire is glued in place. Each mating component has another hole drilled. The fit is just tight enough that I can observe the routing and handle the boiler shell a little without everything falling out of place. I also sanded the filler on the feedwater heater down back to smooth surface.

Hole in the top of the smokebox:

Pin on the bottom of the feedwater heater, and pin-and-hole connection between the steam pipe and feedwater heater:

Engineers side steam pipe:

Firemans side steam pipe:

Two views of the smokebox front partially reassembled - marker lights have also been added:

~Chris

Getting better and better! JohnA

Chris- I enjoy following builds such as yours. Here’s a pic of a Canadian National 2-8-2 I am modifying from a Lionel “baby Mikado “.  Feedwater heater is Railking, steam pipes are stiff wires. JohnA

Chris, that’s coming out nice. I really like the idea of adding the pins to keep everything in place.

very nice look forward to what's ahead

I could read threads like this for days. Keep up the good work!

Thanks John, Scotty, and Bill.

John - that feedwater heater looks good on the Mikado, and see you added the CN number boards as well. I always liked that look, good job.

Not much in the way of piping was done this last week, but I did receive my first revision of the air pump shields from Shapeways. They really complete the look and separate this from a standard USRA engine.

I only figured out how to mount these shields after I began playing around with revision 1 here - my original intention was to epoxy them in place after painting, but I am always in favor of making parts replaceable if damaged. I realized that with some longer mounting screws (courtesy of McMaster-Carr) and a larger base, the pilot-to-frame mounting point could be used to hold a single piece shield in place. Revision 2 is shown below, with adjusted spacing between the shields and a larger base with mounting holes. I also found out recently that the engineer's side shield, aside from being asymmetrical, was actually slightly taller than the fireman's side, so that has been modified as well.

I have a few more detail parts on order to begin working on the piping again, as well as a few more miscellaneous items. I haven't yet found an appropriate feedwater heater pump for cab signal box, so I might need to 3D model and print those as well. They are mounted adjacent to each other, so if I need to go that route I'll have it made as a single part.

~Chris

This is a really cool project. My favorite steamers are the B&A Berkshire and L2a Mohawk. I like mid size steamers with a lot of piping and things to look at. Rather than just a plain boiler. I have this engine tucked away. I added EOB to it and just lost interest in it. This thread makes me want to dig it back out and do something with it.

Those pump shields look great. I finished my mikado and am posting today. JohnA

Dave - I always thought this was one of Lionel's better proportioned engines, and was surprised how long it took for a second run (first was 2002?, second was 2019?). It's much better looking than the far too large "USRA" Pacific of this same design era at Lionel. Not very much exterior piping as the prototype is still 1919 vintage, but it's typical road power of thousands of engines that ran for the entirety of the commonly modeled steam era (1920-1955ish). IMO this size range is overlooked in O scale; below the Northerns, Big Boys, and Challengers but above Light Mikados and Pacifics. The Heavy Mikado is a nice addition, but I think we would benefit from a smaller to mid-size 2-10-2 as well (playing favorites, my example will be a New Haven Class L: NYNH&H STEAM - CLASS L 2-10-2 (google.com) )

~Chris

Fantastic craftsmanship, Chris, …..your detail work is crisp, …..I haven’t had an opportunity to read all the plans, are you painting  individual bits, or will this get a whole respray?…

Pat

Thanks Pat! I think I'm going to spray the whole body and the separate detail parts with the SEM Trim Black you and Dave recommended, and then brush paint the smokebox with Vallejo Black-Gray before permanently mounting everything. Looking back on this thread I don't think I mentioned it - the smokebox front is brush painted Vallejo Black-Gray in the last few pictures. It went on smooth with no brush marks, I'm really liking this brand.

~Chris

Great work! So many talented folks here, always nice to see everyone's projects.

Next revision of the air pump shields came in early and I'm largely happy with it. I replaced the two machine screws holding the front pilot on with longer ones, and the shield now bolts right in. I think I'm going to sand, paint, and install this piece before I continue with the rest of the feedwater heater piping.

~Chris

Like it was meant to be!! Well done!

I like how you’re “largely happy with it “ …..that means you’ve left the door open for self criticism,……that’s how we roll with out own work, ….however, I remain largely unhappy with my work, and continuously ridicule myself …….probably why I have so many lumps on my head,……..

your work looks absolutely flawless!……don’t go down our rabbit hole, ….you can’t escape,……don’t be largely happy, be tickled to death with it!!

Pat

Pat, I too am my own worst critic - ask me how long I stared at this air shield, comparing its height to the 20 or so different reference photos I have. But I learned a long time ago that I have a bad habit of making things worse when striving for perfection.

Thanks for the compliments - they are incredibly meaningful from a master craftsman such as yourself.

~Chris

Chris, I have this engine stored away. I still love my NH stuff. But have now moved towards modeling the Rutland. I’m never going to see a Rutland 4-8-2 from a manufacture. Weaver was probably my last hope. I looked at it and about the only thing close is the wheel arrangement. Such a good well made runner with a Pittman shouldn’t reside under the layout.

You have given me hope. The best way to study an engine when the only thing available is old black and white  photos of dirty engines. Is to find pictures of unpainted HO brass one’s to study. You can clearly see the details when you zoom in. I’ve learned to live with not totally correct engines. As long as I can get some of it right as in certain details. They will be good enough. Your retrofitted trailing truck is just what I need. Looks dead on. The air pumps on the pilot. I’ve been looking at pictures and what Lionel offers. The Niagara’s look close enough. They have a screen between the 2 shields that’s looks exactly like the Rutland. I think I’m going to order up some parts and see where it goes. I have enough projects but this one will be #1. I’m not even going to wait for the half price sale.

@Dave_C posted:

Chris, I have this engine stored away. I still love my NH stuff. But have now moved towards modeling the Rutland. I’m never going to see a Rutland 4-8-2 from a manufacture. Weaver was probably my last hope. I looked at it and about the only thing close is the wheel arrangement. Such a good well made runner with a Pittman shouldn’t reside under the layout.

You have given me hope. The best way to study an engine when the only thing available is old black and white  photos of dirty engines. Is to find pictures of unpainted HO brass one’s to study. You can clearly see the details when you zoom in. I’ve learned to live with not totally correct engines. As long as I can get some of it right as in certain details. They will be good enough. Your retrofitted trailing truck is just what I need. Looks dead on. The air pumps on the pilot. I’ve been looking at pictures and what Lionel offers. The Niagara’s look close enough. They have a screen between the 2 shields that’s looks exactly like the Rutland. I think I’m going to order up some parts and see where it goes. I have enough projects but this one will be #1. I’m not even going to wait for the half price sale.

Not to invade Chris’s thread Dave, but how far off is a LTI Lionel Mohawk from the Rutland L1? …..I used a L3a boiler & chassis to build a very convincing L&HR R1 4-8-2 …..usually, the 18009 Lionel L3a can be had for small money, even on that certain shopping site ……just curious how far off that platform would be?….I think I did a thread at one point of the L&HR R1, ……

Chris, I only play a craftsman on this TV show, in real life, I want to be a…..dentist ..😁

Pat

Pat, I did look at the Lionel L3a. Even owned one at one time. The chassis has the correct looking wheels and driver size. The boiler is a ways off as far as details. The USRA boiler is closer. The Rutland was a pretty uncluttered  clean looking loco. It featured a straight running board which neither have. The USRA shell on a Mohawk chassis would look good but still not close to correct. I have a MTH L3a. I may just throw the shell on it to see how it looks if it will fit. I’m just going for probably the least evasive way to do it for now and get some of it close to correct. Down the road if it looks good on the MTH chassis I may seek out a Lionel version and re motor it. I think I’m going  to have to settle for close enough. I don’t want to go to crazy on the engine seeing that the tender is still not going to be correct. They used the standard small NYC tender. The closest I’ve seen is the MTH one that came on some Pacifics. Even that needs some work.

Go for it Dave, it'll be great seeing what you do with it! I've had a soft spot for the Rutland for a while - I was a member of the Rensselaer Model Railroad Club which had the New England, Berkshire, & Western Railroad (based on a combination of the Rutland and D&H).

With a Dremel and a good sander, removing running boards shouldn't be difficult, but it's a big psychological step - I've avoided a few projects for this reason in favor of lower hanging fruit. Whatever route you choose, the payoff will be magnificent - those green boilered Mountains in the Green Mountains look sleek.

As for my own project, one step forward one step back. Unable to find a suitable tender in one piece, I'm piecing one together.

The Good: Lionel has available on its parts support site an entire Mohawk tender frame with almost full electronics package - the only thing missing is the RS5 audio board. I picked one up, and put the RS4 audio board from the engines original tender to check it out. Sound functions as it should, but I cannot get electro couplers or a backup light without a proper RS5 audio board. Just another misc. item to keep an eye out for.

The bad: The coupler was damaged in shipping. I emailed Lionel and asked for a replacement.

The ugly: When I opened up the original tender to remove the RS4 audio board, I found this wire that had been pinched between the tender shell and frame for 22 years. Hasn't failed yet, but another thing on the agenda to fix.

~Chris

Chris, many years ago the Rensselaer club had an open house in the late summer. I managed a visit while on vacation. Layout was impressive. Trains ran awful probably because the layout was dormant for a few months. I think the track may have been brass. Not nickel silver. The bright boys were getting quite a workout.

  I saw a L2a  tender shell on eBay a while back. Almost bought it to use on a B&A Berk. But passed. So they are out there.

  If Lionel doesn’t come through with the coupler. I put Kadee’s on most of my steamers and I should have one. Hit my e mail if I can help you out.

I took a brief hiatus to work on a few other projects and decided to come back to this one today.

First, Lionel did send me a replacement coupler, and it has been swapped out on the truck. I also picked up an L-2 tender shell on eBay and removed the NYC lettering. I'll wait until I paint the engine before I decide whether I'm repainting the tender shell, or just gloss coating and decaling over the factory finish, but the tender is mechanically complete.

Part of the procrastination on my end was trying to locate an Elesco feedwater heater pump. PSC has one in their parts catalog, but I could not find it for sale anywhere. I would also have had to fashion a bracket to mount the pump and the adjacent cab signal box to the location on Lionel's boiler where the original air pump was.

I finally decided to 3D model the pump and signal box as a single piece and have it printed. Below are a few images of the rough model, to get some basic detail and check fitment/mounting. I'll have this printed, make whatever adjustments are needed, and probably add some more details (rivets/bolts, smaller pipes and protrusions, and hinges) before calling this part done.

Dave - summer was always the worst time on the NEB&W. It was all unplated brass, handlaid track, and the temperature and humidity wreaked havoc with it. In my time there we'd have full operating sessions in the fall and spring, when the humidity was under control, temperatures were even, and the students had been on-campus for a month or two to help make sure everything was in order. It could run well though - below is a timelapse video of the three main yards during an operating session, and it's one of my favorites of the layout available on YouTube. I'm not in it - I was the Dispatcher that day, which was a whole other experience.

New England, Berkshire, and Western Yard Ops Timelapse - YouTube

~Chris

Back at this project after working on other things through the spring and summer.

I received a test print of the feedwater heater pump and cab signal box from Shapeways. It could use some more tweaking and details, but as this part just screws in where the original air pump was located I can move forward without the final version. I had a terrible experience with Shapeways on this part, and I'm looking for a new 3D printing service.

Front fireman's side showing piping down from the feedwater heater, and the air pumps and air pump shield painted and mounted on the pilot:

Test print of the pump and cab signal box:

Roughed in rear fireman's side piping, replacing the injector pump that the stock model had here:

~Chris

Very nice work!

Love your work and upgrades.

A few photos from August that I neglected to post, showing the engineers side piping and the painted air pumps and pilot shields. Details of the pumps are lost in the shadows on my workbench but should be more visible on the layout.

Now the past two weeks have been busy on this project again - the smokebox was hand brushed with Vallejo Gray-Black, same as the smokebox front.

The bottom of the boiler was also given a few light coats of Tru-Color black. I've been practicing with my airbrush over the summer, and got lucky that the Tru-Color black blends nicely with the stock Lionel boiler paint so I don't need to repaint the whole shell. Individual detail parts were also painted at the same time.

I also removed the "New York Central" lettering from the Mohawk tender shell I acquired using a Q-tip and some lacquer thinner, and added "New Haven" decals. I eventually hope to have a Vanderbilt tender for this engine, so I left the road number off the back in case I want to repurpose this tender later.

~Chris

You did a great job on the New Haven decals! It looks stock on the tender