new layout help

Sorry, forgot to add text. Help me with track levels and multi train use and multi direction. Layout programs are a pain. 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are trying to make elevated levels in SCARM, right?  If you don't already have track heights displayed, to under the "View" tab at the top left, and select "Show Track Heights."  You should see a little white box with a number in it ("0" if ground level) at each joint between track sections.

To change the elevation of one end of a track section, click on that section, then click the desired box.  Using the scroll wheel on your mouse (there's probably another way to do this, but it's easiest for me & what I do) you can increase or decrease the height (default is in inches) of that end of that piece of track. Holding down the "Shift" key while using the wheel will move in larger increments.  To change the height of a longer stretch of track, hold the "Ctrl" key down as you click each section (be careful - clicking on the background will deselect all previously clicked track pieces).  To change the height of one end of the span, click on the last height box on the end and raise it to the desired level.  This will cause the entire stretch to rise as one along a consistent grade, displayed as a percentage near the height mark.  You'll want to keep things under 4%, & the lower the better.  Note: switches MUST be level and cannot be incorporated into a grade in SCARM.  If you want a raised but level span of track, go to the opposite end & raise it as well. 

I'm sure there are others that can go into more detail than I, but hopefully that gets you started. 

Also: Really small track pieces may be difficult to see or highlight w/the mouse w/the track heights visible; you may need to turn them off to incorporate such pieces into your span if creating a grade.

Suffice it to say, the layout as shown will simply not work. There is not enough length for the tracks coming out of the yard on the left to rise high enough to clear the roundhouse tracks. The same is true on the right where the tracks cross each other. If you post your SCARM file, I or someone else can take a look and maybe offer some suggestions to at least get you going in the right direction. Even providing the dimensions of the overall room and the layout space would help.

If you simply need to know how to set track heights and slopes, check out this part of the Help section. It shows how to select a section of track and change the height on one end to create a grade. Most people strive for grades around 2%. However, smaller layouts often require grades in the 3% range, if not higher. The higher the grade, the hard engines have to work or the short the trains have to be.

One tip - when starting off and trying to learn SCARM at the same time, start smaller. Forget about the yard and roundhouse for now. Get your main tracks set up and then figure out where you can place the yard and roundhouse. In your case, the limitation is the tracks on the right that you want to cross over. They dictate that tracks have to rise around 6" before they cross over and then lower back to 0" after they cross over. If you eliminate the yard and roundhouse and concentrate on the rest, you'll be able to figure out where you need to start and end your grades in order to clear the tracks. I can't tell from your photo who big the layout is, how much space is available for track, etc. I assume this is for an L-shaped layout, but you made your baseboard a large rectangle rather than a polygon that shows just the space for track.

DOUBLEDAZ, sorry for all the replies but not much experience here. The space I have is wide open, but do prefer the L shape. Would like to have multiple trains, levels, reversing, bridges, Etc, Any help is very much appreciated from all. 

This is the latest update to layout, currently 313 inches by 198 inches.

JAY'S PAP, I should have been more clear. It's just easier for folks who also use SCARM to help if you attach your latest SCARM file to one of your posts so we don't have to start from scratch. The process for attaching the SCARM file is the same as attaching a photo. Then we can make changes and post our versions for you to look at.

Hello Dave,

I must be lost then because I've done this a few times.  First time was a mess but the last two times were saved as bitmap and then jpeg.  What exactly is a scarm file?   How do I ensure I'm saving the file correctly?

.

Good morning, Jay's Pap. I see you were able to figure it out and got the SCARM file uploaded. There are some tracks that don't join, so I'll play around with that and also check how steep your grades will have to be to clear the tracks they go over.

I see you used Atlas track for the design, is that what you plan to use when you actually build?
Is the space what you'd prefer to use or was it just a starting point?
Is the layout going to be up against 1 or more walls so access from 1 or more sides will be limited or will it be in the open with access all around?

Here are some quick and initial changes to see what kind of grades are created (top green 2.3%, top blue 2.4%, bottom blue 2.9% and bottom green 3.2%). As you can see I expanded the layout slightly to 324x204 so tracks didn't run right to the edge. I also deleted the engine runaround (or whatever it was) because I didn't see a need for it, it was really long, and having a turnout on a grade is not recommended, though it can be added back. I also separated the yard from the mainlines so you don't block the mains while working in the yard. I'm at a loss though when it comes to adding reversing loops.

I would definitely add an addition entrance to the yard at the left.  This would create an arrival/departure track to assemble/disassemble trains.

If you were looking for yard action then there are other tracks you can add for realism and action:

1. Rip track to hold cars needing repairs,
2. Caboose track,
3. Additional service track for turntable,
4. Coal/oil/diesel/sand delivery and ash pickup spur,
5. Freight house for LCL, and
6. A run around track.

 There have been several threads on yard design.

Jan

Good ideas, Jan. My goal was to get all the tracks connected and see what the grades looked like. I'm not good at yard design and didn't want to mess around until Jay's Pap had some time to comment. Have no idea if he wants a fully functional yard or just storage for engines and rolling stock. Hopefully others will join in and play with the SCARM file.

Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions, the help with the SCARM was great. going to try some changes, maybe make the yard/turntable an add on to the end of the layout removing it from the center. reversing is a problem, that needs help, to be continued.

Please receive this in the positive spirit that it’s intended to be.  I hope to provide you with much “food for thought” for your future layout:

Many more numerous times than I can recall, for the past too many years, people have requested assistance in planning a layout.  Time after time, track arrangements are immediately shown and discussed.  Track arrangement is NOT planning a layout.  Obviously it is an important part.

Far too many times, regardless of scale, model railroaders end up with a collection of railroad engines and rolling stock from all over the place that circle and circle a loop(s) of track.  In the end, what do they have?

There are three main types of layouts:  Toy train layouts, Display layouts and Operational layouts.

A toy train layout doesn’t follow scale considerations and its purpose is to enjoy many trains and accessories and has a rainbow of railroads, actual and imaginary, not adhering to prototypical (actual) railroad modeling.  These layouts are almost always loops of track going pretty much nowhere all of the time.  This would include “starter sets.”    

A display layout is to show trains.  This layout may be a hybrid of toy train and operational model railroad layout or some combination thereof.  These layouts often contain multiple circles of tracks, with the tracks having no logical route, and allow the trains to be run with minimal human intervention.  A club modular layout would be an example.

An operational layout is set-up in a prototypical manner whereby the trains go from one point to another where they may drop off or pick up rolling stock simulating the actions and operation of a real railroad.  Typically, a specific railroad (or two) is selected and an operational theme is selected and followed.  The track arrangement is patterned after real life as well; meaning no circles or loops of track.

Again, without intending to upset anyone’s sensitivities, far too many model railroaders end up with a hodge-podge miss-mesh collection of railroad and rolling stock from the beginning of time to the modern day.  Their layouts aren’t very good as it is an illogical collection of unrelated items and time periods placed together.

You cannot let someone else tell you how to “plan” your layout unless you provide them with a multitude of details.  How can you or anyone else start to track “plan” when you or they don’t know what your railroad is supposed to be, where it is, what it is doing, etc.?

If you actually want to build a great model of a railroad, not just circle without rhyme or reason, you must first decide what it is you want and what you want your layout to look like when it’s completed.

People that haphazardly throw track arrangements together, via trial and error, will be disappointed in the end as they keep changing the arrangement over and over again seeking the perfect track plan that they will never find.

If you want to create a model of a railroad you must first decide:  What railroad(s) am I modeling?  What is my railroad doing?  (Freight, Passengers, Both or Other?)  Where is my railroad located and what other (if any) railroads is my line connected to?  When:  period of time am I modeling?   How will I research and gather all of the information required to construct a successful model of a railroad?

ALL truly great model railroads contain three essential elements:  Plausibility, Purpose and Participation.  Plausibility—is the design of the layout is believable even if it is entirely made up (free-lanced).  Purpose, ALL railroads have a purpose.  Your model of a railroad should have a purpose, a reason for being, how does it earn money to continue operating?  Finally, Participation!  This is where the fun comes in!  What will you or others at your railroad be doing?  If everyone is standing there simply watching the trains circle the same track with the same consist never changing direction and  seemingly going nowhere the fun won’t last long.

You, and others, need something to do.  The more you have to do, the more interaction is offered, the more enjoyment you will experience!  It is fun, entertaining and enjoyable to become part of a railroad crew.

BEFORE any track arranging can commence, you need to know the who, what, where, when, why and how of your layout.  The track arrangement for a switching operation is different from a main-line run.  A mountain route is different from a run along a seashore or prairie. 

If you are striving to create a model of a railroad attempt to get your trains going somewhere, not just circling.  I understand that people have limited space.  I did for years on end.  If your space is limited, plan a nice switching layout or small branch-line scene, maybe a logging operation?  There are numerous possibilities.    

If your space is limited, and you feel you must circle, use temporary on the floor track and circle to your heart’s delight!  When spending money to construct a layout surface and add scenery plan something nice for yourself and others.  Some spectacular layouts were/are 8 feet long and 18 inches wide.  It doesn’t have to circle or loop!

Most importantly, plan a point to point scheme.  Get the trains going somewhere.  Add return loops/reversing loops at both “ends” of your line so that a train may travel to the next town and then be turned around and return.  Have a siding at or near the ends of your line. 

Give your line a purpose.  You (or others) control the train.  Stop at the sidings.  Drop off and pick-up.  This will provide you participation and engage you in the activity.  I encourage and challenge you to stop running circles and loops. 

This is the irony of model railroading: real trains go from point to point and include much straighter track than curves.  In the model world, the vast majority of trains circle or loop, and there are far more curves.

I do appreciate that there are instances such as modular clubs that this wouldn’t apply.  I’m merely trying to help and suggesting to others to attempt to create a better design for a layout that will provide them with years of enjoyment.  Get involved with your trains!  Give yourself a part in the operations of your layout.  Get others involved!

Have fun!  But seriously consider the challenges and fun of modeling a railroad! 

My two cents. 

Came up with this... what can be done with this new plan? Any help would be appreciated. Going crazy! LOL

Made a few changes, photo and SCARM attatched.

Jay's Pap,

Have you tried looking at the "picture file" you attached.  Doesn't work.  Try using SCARM to save a picture file to your own computer, and look at it there (outside of SCARM) before uploading it here.

Chuck

Two quick observations on this version:
- Once a train pulls out of the yard, it has no where to go except to the turntable.
- No way for trains to move between ovals.

I sense a level of frustration, but I don't think it's the software causing it. You seem to be working with a space that is roughly 9' x 30' with a 6' x 7' addition on one end. So far you seem to be thinking in terms of a large table and that is going to raise access concerns. I can't tell from the description provided so far how much of the room this space uses, if it's against a back wall, in a corner, enclosed by 3 walls or has access from all sides. Maybe they're all possibilities.

Anyway, do you want a large table with access hatches in various locations?
Would you be willing to open the center with a duck under or lift gate for entry?
Do you want a fully operational yard with service facilities?
Or just some storage tracks for rolling stock with the TT and whisker tracks for engines?

This latest version doesn't have different elevations or over/under crossings. It that still something you want?

Here's another idea to think about. I'm not good at yard design, so I'm sure I've left out many elements. I'm also not operation-oriented, I lean more toward display running. Even so, given the size of your space, I think it deserves more than 3 simple ovals unless you're planning to model an urban commuter system. I must say it's a little disappointing that others aren't commenting.

Yes it's frustrating, but not giving up. I have a wide open 30 by 40 area, but only want to use this much approximate area for a layout. Was thinking the L shape may be best suited. Yes the layout will be against the walls. I have nothing to interfere with the layout. Like the working aspect of the layout hopefully along with car storage. Reversing, tunnels, bridges, mountains, small industrial town, pretty much open to anything. I personally don't know much at all about RR OPERATIONS, but very much enjoy seeing trains in action. Your help is much appreciated and all criticism and suggestions are welcomed.

This much made me crazy, any help out there with grades, placing bridges, tunnels, etc. I'm not sure how anyone does this stuff without going crazy, please help.

Did you like your first track plan and shape?

I did. Only a few things to adjust.

1. There wasn't enough space for the roundhouse. Will you use an Atlas or Korber?
2. Do you actually have an Atlas TT that you are going to use? SCARM has Millhouse River TT's
3. The second TT escape/entry needed to be relocated
4. Another crossover added
5. Look for a place for a reversing move.

Work your design by just drawing the L rectangles and draw pencil lines for the track runs. Converting it to software for a build track count and such can be completed by someone. You do the design, we can do the software end. Translating the lines is much easier for us than translating what you envision.

I don't know if I have shared this with you, but here it is. A Design your layout doc. Same lines as what John C was suggesting.

I can tell you that, to my eye, the plans after your original all have too high of a track to scenery ratio (heading towards a spaghetti bowl) for not enough play/operational value.

If you are feeling overwhelmed then start simple. Half the fun of modeling is the building and re-building. An overall plan and goal is good to have but if you get some basics built and can run some trains then the rest will come with time. Leave yourself room to grow and see what you want to add as time goes by.

Good luck!