New Member - New Layout Design

You are in the same situaition as me - just returned to the hobby after 35 years.  You'll get lots of good input here - I certainly have received it.

 

The track plan looks good and seems to accomplish what you described.  Since light weight is a factor, you may not need 1' squares - that will consume a lot of lumber and hence weight.  If you stick with 1', may get by with 1" Styrofoam or 1/2" ply + 1" Styro.

 

Don't know about the wiring and eagerly await to see other's input.

 

What is the switch for at the bottom right?

 

As to track costs, I found that GarGraves flex has a low per unit cost, but have to factor in time/costs for roadbed and construction.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!

Well folks, guess I need to bump this to get more than Gregg's comment (very much appreciated). Surely someone sees the holes in my plans. Maybe I just didn't ask for feedback the right way or something.

 

Anyway, since the benchwork size is set, I started the grid benchwork today. I got all the notches done and tomorrow I'll drill 1/2" holes for wiring, then put things together.

Well I am no pro, your layout looks some what packed.  If you plan on taking down the layout several times a year you may get frustrated with it and you will not enjoy the trains. You could try a around the room layout built on 2' by 8' tables.  That will give you more room to reach over on the tables and a lot lighter to move.  Something I wished we would have done.  I built a 6 by 11 foot table on castors using your method with 1 by3 pine for frame work covered with 1 inch and 1-1/2 pink foam.  No plywood.  The 1 foot squares will hold your track and trains.  I do like your plan for your lower level(red line). Hope this helps, good luck and post some pics of your building process.  Here are a few shots of our beginning's about 2 years ago.  It is about finished now with a upper level so we can run a total of 3 engines at once conventional.  We also have 8 block sections to park engines that are not working.  Nick 

To answer your questions:

1) Either thickness of foam is fine however, the thicker the foam, the more sceniking you can do.

 

2) RealTrax connect fine, however some have had issues with the connecting tabs breaking.   I'm not a fan of track with built-in roadbed.   I used Atlas track and switches which also have the non-derailing feature and you can put the switch mechanism on either side as well (though it's nowhere as easy as on the Real Trax switches). 

 

3) If you use RealTrax or any track with a built in roadbed there is no need to attach it to the foam.   Friction and weight will hold it in place.  If you use track without built in roadbed I recommend using a cork or vinylbed roadbed as it will look much nicer with a slope after ballasting.  The roadbed can just be glued to the cork and the track laid on top.  No need to secure the track---the glue from the ballast will take care of that.

 

4) With DCS there is no need for special wiring for reverse loops or crossovers and same for Legacy/TMCC.   Just follow the basic guidelines which come with the instructions.  I would recommend dividing each of your loops into blocks however in case of electrical issues - it will be easier to diagnose.

 

Best of luck!

 

==Greg

Thanks for the comments Nick. I know the layout looks a little busy when both levels are combined and I'm considering eliminating one of the loops in the top section.  However, the top doesn't separate, it just lifts off for overnight storage in the garage. The bottom level separates in half with only 4 straight sections of track to deal with. I'll find out how heavy each section is going to be over the next few days, but I'm expecting my wife and I will be able to move them okay. Buildings and such will be removable, so all we'll be left with is the basic layout.

 

I considered around the room, but the layout is going to cover the dining room table. I'm not too concerned about access to trains on the lower level. The top level will be added only after I see how the bottom level works. I may end up placing it in the adjoining living room with an extension to join them together. I am concerned about access to the top level and I guess I'll find out. All that will happen before I add any scenery. Since the track will eventually go in a spare bedroom, the most I'll be out is some 1x3s and foam if the top level doesn't work.

 

I like how you did your benchwork. I'm going to drill two 1/2" holes instead of one larger one to run wiring. And because I need to move mine, I extended the grid to completely fill the layout. Thanks for confirming the grid/foam will work. It looks like I could have gone with 24" spacing, so I might try removing some.

Hi Greg, thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

1. I'm pretty sure I'll start with two 1" layers of foam so I can have some desert washes, etc., and I'll build up other parts with more foam. I got the first section of gridwork almost done today. Got a late start due to some appointments.  Also, I'm pretty rusty on workworking, so that took extra time too, but I'll get there.

 

2.  So far my RealTrax is connecting fairly well, but I can see how tabs might break. I'll check out the Atlas track, but that means I'll have to do roadbeds and I'm not sure I want the extra work.

 

3. I'll need to attach some of it because the whole layout has to break down and I'll have to tip it a bit to get each section out the front door. Of course, I could fashion a temporary support system using clamps for transport. I suspect some long screws into the foam would be enough to get it in/out the door.

 

4. I'm thinking of separate blocks for each of the 4 ovals, 2 on the lower level and 2 on the upper level. The lower level blocks would be further split by the 2 sections giving me a total of 4 blocks on the lower level, 6 overall. Do you think separating the ovals by section will be enough separation for the 2 reverse loops? The optional shelf/yard would also be a separate block. I'm new to DCS, but I assume the tracks will all need to be powered by the same transformer if I want to be able to control all 4 trains from the same remote. I intend to purchase the MTH O 50-1001 DCS Remote Control Set and the MTH O 40-4000 Z-4000 Transformer. I'm assuming this will do what I want and power all 4 trains. I'm going to take the design to my LHS next week to get an idea of what added equipment I'll need to distribute power to the tracks and the 17 switches and whatever other powered accessories I add.

I think 4 separate blocks is plenty for a layout of your size.   Separating the reverse loops is overkill but that is just my opinion.   I do however recommend isolating one siding.   This will let you add/edit engines using the remote without interfering with any trains which might be running on the main.  

 

The Z-4000 is plenty of power however you could have all 4 loops powered by separate transformers and still use the same remote - they would just need to be fed into the same TIU (you can string multiple TIU's but you don't need to).  The user's guide which comes with DCS explains everything clearly.  

 

One thing I would recommend is wiring an 18v light bulb to the output terminals of the TIU or the input terminal of your terminal strip.  This is known as the "magic light bulb" and helps to improve signal strength. 

 

In every electrical circuit there are a couple of electronic parameters called ‘capacitance’ and inductance’. The combination of these two parameters establishes what is called the ‘impedance’ of an AC circuit. Too much of either one can cause problems by creating an ‘impedance mismatch’. The result is the circuit becomes less efficient and does not carry signals well.

 

The jumble of wires under the typical layout is a highly capacitive network with very little inductance, which creates an impedance mismatch. When the DCS signal is fed into this network it can weaken.  DCS users who improved the situation by adding light bulbs were unknowingly adding inductance to their wiring network, bringing the network back into a better impedance match.

 

An inductor is nothing more than a coil of wire. The filament of a light bulb is a tightly wound coil of wire that glows brightly when current is applied to it. Placing light bulbs into the wiring adds an inductance load to the network, canceling out some of the excess capacitance and setting up a better impedance match. This is why adding the lights improves the DCS signal propagation.

 

--Greg

Hi again Greg,

 

Just to clarfy, when you say 4 blocks, are you talking about the whole layout, upper and lower? If you are, then I assume that since the lower level separates near the halfway point, each half would be a block and each oval on the upper level would make up the other 2.

 

When it comes to blocking a siding, don't forget the add-on 1x12 storage yard that isn't pictured. That will be a separate block and should work for adding/editing engines, shouldn't it? Or do you think I need a more permanent one on the main layout. Once I add my 4 engines, how often would I need to edit, etc.? It wouldn't be difficult though to block one leg of the small storage yard inside the reversing loop. 

 

Thanks for the tip about the 18v light bulb.

 

When it comes to the electrical, I just got the train set and there wasn't much in the way of a user's guide explaining all the DCS stuff, basically just plug the stuff in and play. So, I'm a little lost as to what I'll need to initially set up and power just the inside loop-to-loop oval on the lower level. I guess I'm assuming the transformer that came with the set will be enough for my single engine. Once I get that much going, my plan is to work on adding the rest of the track for the lower level, upgrade the transformer/remote, then get a 2nd engine, etc.

Got the first section done, but I'm not satisfied with the white foam I had to buy because that's all Lowe's and HD sells here. I posted some questions in another thread about the foam and cutters:
https://ogrforum.com/d...02#11144471794680902

 

So far so good. I do realize I didn't give enough thought to how I'm going to support this 11x11 table layout. It seens obvious that some simlle legs are nit going to cut it. I'm thinking a series of 3-4 specially designed sawhorses of two 4'x8' table frames might do the trick.

Yes - that will suffice as you described.   I can give you two recommendations going forward:

 

1) Buy Barry Broskowitz' book on DCS found here:

 

http://www.mthtrains.com/news/011

 

2) Buy Dennis Brennan's book on building a layout found here:

 

http://www.brennansmodelrr.com...x.php?categoryid=122

 

Both authors are forum members and both products are excellent for everyone from the beginner to the very experienced hobbyist.

 

--Greg

doubled,

Since I see you live in Peoria, I suggest you might want to attend one of the meetings of the Grand Canyon Model Railroad club.  They are very involved with operating trains and I am sure you'll meet some fellows who can help with your new layout.  Contact me from my profile and I'll send you contact info.

Okay those are the areas I'll block then.

 

I have no problem buying the DCS book, but do I really need another layout book. I already have John Armstrong's Track Planning For Realistic Operation, Lynn Westcott's How To Build Model Railroad Benchwork and 101 Track Plans, and Robert Schleicher's The Model Railroading Handbook. Mind you, I don't mind buying the layout book, just not sure it has things the others don't to make it worthwhile.

Finally located some pink foam so I can move forward now. Anyone know of a reason I can't use the sheets of white foam for the first layer? That layer will not be cut or shaped. The second layer of pink will be cut in places for desert washes, etc.

A late reply on my part as well..some comments..One concern I would have is a somewhat difficult access to the middle portion of the layout in the event of derailments and troubleshooting switches, etc. Another is the amount of track, not from a "artistic" point of view, but the plan as it is replicates an issue I had which is that you might find that you have little room for accessories  or  buildings you may want to add. If I had to do it all over again, I would start with a simpler scheme and then add once you see how it works for you. It's easier to add than rebuild..as I had to.

Thanks again for commenting, lots of useful info there.

Like I told Russell, this is more of a test layout to learn things before I tackle the permanent bedroom layout in a few years. I don't plan on doing any building other than maybe some cardboard mockups, etc. I do plan to cut an access hatch, so access is not a concern. I didn't add it to the plan because I'm not sure what I'm really going to do with the upper level. I really don't even want an upper level, I just want some elevated track and my bedroom layout will include a grade along the wall. I do like to be able to run a single train through the entire layout, so I take a lot of liberties with reversing loops and crossovers. Maybe I'll grow out of that as I get further along. I do see I need to give more thought to my final bedroom layout before I start buying too many standard track sections and switches. I mainly wanted as much track as I could fit in so I can see what works and what doesn't. I'm also not really satisfied with 42" curves either, but the 4 engines I have in mind shouldn't be a problem. I'm not getting into this to get a huge engine. My 4-6-0 steam is probably as big as I'll get. My other steam will probably be 4-4-0 General or a 2-8-2 Mikado.

 

Thanks for commenting.

My fears were for naught, that foam is stuck like glue.

Well, I've got the first section done. I've decided I'm going to forego most landscaping on this temporary layout and use just a single layer of foam for now.  I'm going to paint it desert brown and then begin buying track when we get back home in late February. I'm still researching track, but there is little doubt I won't be using the RealTrax because, like so many have said, it's pretty loud and I can't imagine trying to run 4 trains together. The roadbed is definitely an echo chamber and the foam is worse than the 1/2" plywood it was on. I'll be honest, that surprised me. The train was extremely quiet in the LHS, so I need to see what they used for a base, though I think it's some kind of carpet. Based on this, I have a feeling I'm going to be using cork roadbed with ScaleTrax for my final bedroom layout. That's okay though because it's still cheaper and I can do more with the flextrack.

I'm also just going to use my design as a template and play around with actual track to try out different ideas for the around-the-wall bedroom layout. I'm having a little trouble imaging a layout with scenery on paper, so I'm going to modify things as I go. I'll plan on the computer, then test fit sections, etc.

One thing I have found so far is that my idea of breaking the layout in half looks like it will work just fine. Yes, it's heavy, but my wife Train BWqave been able to move it around so far without much difficulty. Fortunately, it's by the large front door and we have a furniture dolly.

Anyway, here are a couple of photos of progress so far..

So, I decided to kludge together a little Christmas oval with what I've finished so far. I'll be using our "It's A Wonderful Life" collection in the middle on 2 levels. I put a drop cloth under the RealTrax and added some white batting under the buildings. I need to get some more tomorrow and then position what accessories we have. It won't be much, but it will be in the spirit of the season.

Anyway, my real reason for posting is that I am amazed at the difference in sound simply adding the drop cloth made. I'm still going to switch to ScaleTrax. I just hope the turnouts are better than the one I bought with the set. It's only been 3 weeks and it's already stopped working. It was finicky on one side, so I've been using it on the other side, but now it refuses to work on either side. I can plug it in, but as soon as I hit the remote, it switches and then stops, light goes out and that's it. I'm taking it back tomorrow to see if the LHS can tell me what's wrong with it, but I suspect I'm out the cost. It worked fine on the one side until I moved the track off the sheet of plywood onto the foam.

Turned out the turnout was shorting at the frog. Backed off the 2 rails there and all is well. Finished my crude Bedford Falls village, but it's not good enough to post a photo. I did buy the remaining 2 cars (dining &  baggage) in the Christmas set. Maybe someone would be kind enough to tell me the way that is typically configured. I have the baggage car behind the tender followed by the dining care and the 3 passenger cars.