New to the Hobby

What is the size of your table?

If the red line is your elevated line, the ramp up is going to be pretty steep. If you can make the green line go down in elevation that could give the red line more clearance and make its ramp less steep.

Or you could remove the siding at the bottom of the diagram and have the ramp go around to outer edge of the layout. This way the red line ramp will never have to cross over the green line and the ramp can be less steep.

Building a layout for the first time is a trial an error process. What looks great on paper may not work on the actual layout. If you go with this plan as-is you may find that some trains will have a tough time going up the grade. Or even worse, trains will go too fast down the grade and derail at the curve.

Dont make anything permanent until you have tested the trains on the track. Then make adjustments to make train operation smooth and easy.

Welcome to the Forum.

Your layout design will get you off to a great start. Good Luck

Yeah, I find SCARM to be challenging as well. Welcome to you!

Unfortunately your design has a serious flaw.

There is absolutely not enough space to get up to the height you need with the way you have it now.

Figure that you need to raise up about 6.5 inches to safely cross over trains.

6.5 inches at 4% grade (horribly steep) requires 13.5 feet or track!!! 

Thank you everyone for the wonderful feed back! I have some ideas for the ramp up by lowering the track down into the base board by 2two inches in order to help make the clearance a little less.

I can not offer any help on SCARM, but I am just here to say welcome aboard!!  I have been in trains since I was 12, and tried to get my two daughters who are now grown, into trains when they were young.  The closest I got was building doll houses with them.  The older still loves her doll house, but the younger doesn't sit still long enough for something static to hold her interest.  Hers is in my garage.  There are a number of forum members who have young daughters who love their trains!

I will say one thing about your plan.  I agree with you, if you split the difference and take part of the track down and the other up, you could conceivable come near half the grade you now have.  Not too bad.  I am like you and have always had a small space to work with.

I hate to continue being the harbinger of bad news but dropping the underpass 2 inches does not solve your problem.  Even to climb only 4 inches at 4% grade you need 8 feet of track, but right now you don't have that. 

I'm playing around with your SCARM file but it will need a major redesign to get that grade to work, I don't know what the original layout looked like but from everything I can tell it just doesn't work.

Grade is calculated as Rise Height / Grade Percent (in decimals) = Rise Length.

So, to go up 4" / .04 grade = 100", which is 8.3 feet! 

As far as grades, 4% is the absolute steepest you want to go.  I have a 4% grade on mine that the engines can make up but the smaller cheaper (and lighter) ones struggle on.  So you need a nice long track wrapping around the outside perimeter of your layout to be your ascending track.

Also, one secret to SCARM is using the Gargraves flextrac for all those odd lengths of tracks that standard sizes don't fit.  I'll play around with your file a bit more later when i get some daddy quiet time and see if anything tickles your fancy.

Of course your other option is to have a completely separate raised loop that does not connect to the bottom one, so you can run two trains at once.

Dom, Thank you for correcting me.  I didn't figure his dimensions, just commented on the concept.  Thank you for taking the time to help our new friend Front Toward the Enemy out.

FTE,

That's the great thing about this group.  There is always someone willing to go the extra mile for you.  Also, you will get many opinions so you can make your own decision, or someone will be proven wrong.  I never have any hard feelings.  I'm here to learn too.

I do hope to sit down sometime and work with SCARM.  Can't beat the value for the Price!!    Many thanks to forum member Mixey!!

Maybe like a Lionel display #D-264 type layout might be a better fit?

(with some extra straights thrown in here and there)

The terrific feedback is what has kept me coming back and eventually creating my own profile. I agree that the grade if my calculation were right was rise over run was steep even when splitting the track after installing the foam base. Although if need be I can always extend the table a bit wider per say another foot to make it 6*10 and run the elevated track on the outside of the main loop instead of utilizing the siding. I am not 100% sold on any one design and i realise that i may run into space issues vs. need or want. I really appreciate all of the feedback and help!   

Good  evening and welcome to the forum

Really like your avatar name

Clem k

Here is what I banged together.  With this set up you have a grade of 3.6%, definitely manageable. I suppose if all your engines feature the wonder of Magne-Traction then maybe you can get away with something steeper, but 3.6% is plenty.

Unfortunately I had to take out the siding, and I tried to arrange it so none of the tracks are directly beneath the others.  Obviously it's all up to you how you want to tweak it. 

Let me know what you think!

Welcome Front T E,  If this was my first layout I would go with Dom's track plan,I think you'll have less problems. Just remember if you run into problems and you will, just jump on the forum and ask for help………     Steve

Hi,

I corrected the track fitment. there is only one slight mis-align remaining. Changed the figure 8 slightly. This is in the fitment SCARM file. The changed tracks are in default clear.

The second SCARM file assumes using the Lionel trestles at 5.75". The climb from the switch is about 3.9%. That's acceptable. I also did some 3D.

The layout fits as you designed it if the roadbed is almost touching the left side. The star point is 1.5"X, 32.5"Y and Angle 270º

Files attached.

I liked Dom's tunnel in the rear. I changed your plan for that tunnel and fiddled with some more 3D.

Nothing wrong with your plan. Just needed some fine tuning.

I would consider mounting the transformers just below deck height. They block the view.

Moonman your clean ups look good but unfortunately they do not address the biggest problem of his design, which is the track clearance on the right.

I downloaded your files and if you notice the graded climb is only 3inches!!! above the lower track when it passes over. 

He might put in a drawbridge or run flat trains, but in any other case 3 inches is not nearly enough space, especially since he needs to factor in the half inch of subroadbed for the grade on top of the height of the trains passing below it.

I'm obsessed with this layout now, I guess because my own is completely stalled.

I was thinking it over last night and I liked your siding on the bottom and came up with a way to preserve it, plus get up to a good height for a top run.

I just took what you had originally used as the spur to climb up and changed that into part of the bottom loop, while the straight course becomes your up and down.

yeah, I noticed it afterwards, too. The r-loop needs to shortened and then the climb track can come inside while preserving the length for the grade.

Ok, I changed it.

Dom, your latest version looks good.

@Penn-Pacific, et.al.,

a present- here is my FasTrack rendition of the D-264-TRICK or TREAT!

Welcome aboard FTE!  (I have to admire any man who invokes the M18A1 maxim.)  

I see you are in very good hands here.  These guys know their stuff!  Carry on.

WOW is all I can say! The feedback has been amazing! A special thank you to both DomMiele and Moonman for taking my layout to the next level! I have shown both the different layouts to my daughter who gets final say on what we build and she has decided she loves the extra switches in Doms workup utilizing the outside siding pictured below. I honestly cannot say thank you enough for alll the help! I use another program for my wood working and although its very similar to Scarm there is definetly a learnign curve. I am waiting now to purchase the additional swithes for the top run but i will post pictures as it goes together. I know most of the pictures I see online are small town layouts or modern cities but i am shooting for something a little more futuristic using buildings from a company called Warmill that makes MDF buildi9ngs. I mention the name as they are going to start offering 3d printing so you guys may want to check them out. Again thank you for all of the assistance!

Welcome to the forum....as you can see you will receive a lot of good help and information from fellow members....this is a great place!

Alan

Welcome to the forum!!

Hello Everyone I know it's been awhile! I wanted to share some pics as I still have some tweaks to  make and alot of terrain to add.  I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for such a tremondous outpouring of help! I am truly humbled by your enthusiasm for the hobby and passion for helping.  

Welcome to the best toy/model train forum on the web.  You can find answers to every

thing trains on here. A great bunch of people here.

Thanks for joining us.

FTE,

The layout looks great with the Alien train. I don't believe I have seen a futuristic colonized planet layout. Those Warmill structures are cool.

As you develop the planet to a safer state, some passenger service may be needed. Look for the Lionel Phantom. It will work perfectly with your theme once the Aliens cooperate and realize who's in charge.

Keep us updated. I can see your wargame skills will certainly make this an interesting layout.

Best wishes for the holidays to you and your family!

Looks like you are making good progress!

Belated welcome to the Forum! I like your buildings and structures. 

Welcome to the forum. A great place to learn. The layout is really coming along nicely.

You and your kids will LOVE this hobby. I salute you for being a great Dad. Makes me wonder what our culture would look like if more dads were doing what you are.

new to forum and building a dedicated train display. has anyone used this layout specifically?  I would like to know if someone has please. I really like the features. I have some fasttrack, but would definitely need to spend the cash to get all the needed curves and switches for this layout. (for my 13 and 10 year old boys and me to build). Have a 175 watt train master TW transformer. Thanks great forum!

I thought this had been solved, didn't notice the "low bridge" in oct.

I played too but never posted it. Not 100% done on lengths or line up here.

Adding purple surface, taking from blue. Hide the controls!

Not so much a visual treat didn't try. But more functional version here, with the "pretzel" flipped.

No backing, to get out of the middle loop now. Now full use of both reverse loops, or run 3 separate loops, or some small siding operations.

I REALLY like your tweak to include full use of both reverse loops, or run 3 separate loops.

Will try to download program to read the file you posted better so I can purchase the fasttrack parts for this one

ToddW,

See front towards the enemy's post above photos. he built dom's version. Check out the photos attached. Just click on one and use the arrows to view all.

Scarm has a parts list feature under the Tools menu. opens in a browser. then you print.

Here's Adriatic's version with the fitment corrected using standard FasTrack pieces.

Some more work needs to be done if you to want to electrically isolate any of the loops. It's a single train runner.

Right-click the attached file and select "save target as", then open with SCARM.

Welcome FTE your going to love it here, so much to learn and I personally have found my answers in a timely fashion.  Have fun run some trains.  Jim

ToddW,

Here it is a bit more refined. I missed the elevated section to replace with standard track and changed the accessory siding, which now includes the accessory activator pack. May need to modify for accessory used.

Also, if you scroll down there is a sheet cut. Two 4' x 8' pieces of deck are all that is needed.

Thanks Carl! I have to say FTE's progress and layout looks fantastic!

Carl the plan you are tweaking looks to be the one I want to go with. Having issues on my macbook air installing scarm at the moment

Thank you everyone again! I play table top strategy games like WarHammer 40k and Malifaux so my train table originally started as a wargamming table and has kinda morphed into a combination of the two which is why i went with a little simpler on the track layout. The rear bridge needs to be weathered and the trestles are just simple 3/4 x3/4 pine and poplar I ripped down on the table saw and used the Kreg Jig to make all of my joints. Although i have a ton of work to do I have been finishing my Masters so the table has had some slow spots lol.  In the future I plan on incorporating some rotating Anti Air guns using some really small motors from http://www.pololu.com/product/1594. Combined with some red and yellow flickering LEDS and an HO scale smoke maker I'm working on some burning barrels. But like everything there is always a learnign curve! Again thank you everyone for the support!