outside company MTH upgrade with whistle steam

Might have been here? JDS LTD 

They show some on youtube here:

MTH Whistle Steam

I have seen the JDS whistle steam and it is fantastic.  JDS also does many custom special items.  Good guy who does top shelf work.  I know Scott Smith has some whistle steam locomotives.

REMEMBER!!!!!!  THIS FEATURE ONLY WORKS IN CONVENTIONAL MODE!  NOT PS2.0.
I remember that being Scott's biggest complaint otherwise it is AMAZING

Stay tuned for a TMCC locomotive with whistle steam and blowdown, all controlled from the TMCC/Legacy remote. 

Mike is correct my upgrade only works in conventional mode. They were working on making it available for DCS. Check with them and see if it is available yet for your locomotive.

Scott Smith

Thanks to all.  JDS was the one.  However, no PS2.0 DCS may now be a deal-breaker for me.  I can't believe I just said that!  I have a PS2 J that I was thinking of bringing to York, saving shipping, and having them do something with it.  Maybe I'll use a PS1...  Dave

The sticking point is there's no way to decode the whistle from the DCS boards in the locomotive.  For conventional, you can detect the whistle based on the DC track offset.

I just looked at their website (which may be a little out of date) and it suggests that the whistle upgrade works with DCS although I cannot see how it could be triggered from the DCS remote. It also refers to Accusmoke installation manuals for both DCS and TMCC equipped engines but I can't get the download links to work.

Just sent them an email query and I'll see if they get back to me.

Somebody playing on their workbench?..will this work for Cab-1?

I'd love to see both the steam/whistle and blowdown for conventional...could there be a new separate signal source from the usual bell and horn/whistle, in "conventional mode"?

Ooooh, too cool looking!

Bob, it will work for either TMCC or Legacy, this will be a mod to TMCC locomotives.  Obviously, you'll have to have space for all the smoke units in the boiler.

Possible to use an ERR board to control the function or does it have to be oem lionel boards?....I know you said "TMCC" but you didn't say if it was TMCC control in general or tapped off of a certain board.

You know I was thinking of converting to TMCC rather than DCS....trying to sway my vote?!

We'll be decoding the serial data, so any board that has an R2LC is fine, you just tap off pin 24 like the Cruise Commander M does for serial data.

Cool! My Cab-1 thanks you!

How are you going to trigger the blowdown?

Alt1-6 on the CAB1, and the same key position on the Legacy.

MTH Has Whistle smoke, but it is for a G Scale Triplex.  Requires flash programing of the PS-2 board.

Lionel's conventional unit just uses a whistle relay to turn on the whistle smoke fan.

It is a shame MTH doesn't add this to O.  I don't think it would be too hard with the MUX board, or a variation of there COORS beer board.  It is a lot of modifications for the effect though.   G

I don't know about "a lot of modification".  Basically, it's just outputting a signal for whistle and having that drive the whistle smoke unit.  The biggest part clearly is adding the smoke unit, which may be the sticking point.

John, I didn't know that - guess next time I should pulled it{Cab-1} all the way out of the box and read the destructions....{duh}.

GGG/John- is it me or did that vid seem to show the smoke as being forced out via a fan? Then it'll need another one for blowdown...unless there's a way to use one smoke unit and fan with a valve to use for both tasks{whistle steam/blowdown}- hitting both at the same time would deminish it, but that depends on the supply amount I guess.

Our plan is individual smoke units for the whistle steam and the blowdown.  The whistle smoke unit has to be managed a bit different, you have to keep the element warm so that you get smoke quickly, the blowdown will be a standard smoke unit.

I picked up an MTH HO smoke unit to see if it's suitable for any of these things.  It would work for whistle smoke, but I don't think it'll generate enough smoke for an impressive blowdown.

Ok, how's this for an idea-

Run both off of a single buried box- 1 inlet to fill via a sand hatch or something- it has to seal the system as well. One small dual sided squirl cage fan spun via a small drive motor- doesn't need to be as big as a standard smoke unit fan{right?}. Twin outlets from the box off of the dual fan unit- one for blowdown and one for whistle steam. Now for the tricky part- how to control each one separately- my idea would be a slightly downward tilted tube{1/4" roughly} with a steel piston rod- that would get pulled up the slight slope via an electromagnetic pulse{wraps of magnet wire around each tube} to open the needed tube{s} and let the smoke out. A slight slope would be wanted{inho} to combat constant voltage need to hold those closed- let gravity do the work- voltage load would only be on demand and not that long keeping the winding coils from getting that hot. Fire the small fan{of choice} the same time a call is given for either steam to be released along with the firing of the needed control piston solenoid.

Easy to type up- now to actually come up with it!...John you wanna get on that one?!... 

"S" maybe?{bigger}...that's why my idea of a general single pot that was enclosed until called for...let it start building up and then release on command- make a big enough reservoir and it "should" be ok if someone isn't too whistle/blowdown happy.  

...to do it "ugly" one could use tender space for a large reservoir and run a clear tube to the engine and try and divide from there...but as I recall your not the worlds biggest fan of wiring coming across from the tender, now trying to add a flex tube as well...engine source it is then.

Didn't MTH talk of doing this in O a few years ago?  Maybe it was the G scale I was thinking of?  Or my memory is getting worse... probably the latter.

quote:

The whistle smoke unit has to be managed a bit different, you have to keep the element warm so that you get smoke quickly...

If that is the case, why not add the dynamo that has steam exhausting all of the time and just tap the whistle off of that?

Well, I can assure you that was easier to type than to build!   I'm thinking along the lines of simple, but effective.   You're talking WAY more mechanical complexity, not to mention the issues of piping the smoke any distance is usually a problem.

It's a thought, but getting into plumbing from the whistle to the dynamo might be a bit problematic.  Also, you'd still have to have a valve and plumbing to do that.  With what I'm thinking of, it's a simple setup, two smoke units that work on demand, and I keep the one warmed up.  FWIW, Legacy does exactly that for the whistle smoke, they have a small amount of current always in the smoke unit for the whistle.

The electronic controls are easy compared to doing the plumbing you guys are thinking of.  Of course, if you were to pitch in and do that part...

Yes, A lot of mechanical modification.  You need to drill through shell, need a hollow whistle, need a proper mounting for the smoke with space and ability to service.  The electronics are pretty simple for those that can do that.  Even a conventional whistle relay with a jumper off the LM324 that process whistle signal can trigger it.

I think piping off the main smoke housing is one way to keep the smoke available.  Otherwise there are going to be longevity concerns and complexity in the program to keep an element warm/hot.  Or trying to find room for 3 smoke units.  G

Some great talent here and a lot of good ideas. JDS's smoke systems are indeed impressive but I didn't realize that the whistle steam didn't work in command...

You guys should pool your ideas and come up with a good add-on system and you'll have a great service to offer!

I'd be in for adding whistle and blow down smoke to my steamers.  Let me know when you need some test subjects.  I have a K-Line Big Boy and Allegheny with TMCC, and a MTH PS-1 Camelback that has a TMCC conversion in it's future.  Now, how about cylinder smoke?

The first victims for this are going to be brass steamers that are basically empty shells except for the smoke unit and motor for the reasons you state.  I agree that space is one issue, which is why I'm looking at the MTH HO smoke units for at least one of the extra smoke units.

I don't see tapping smoke off the main smoke unit for a simple reason, I don't want my whistle or blowdown to chuff.   Since the Legacy units keep the whistle smoke unit warm for quick recovery, I don't think it's rocket science to do the same thing.  I haven't had any longevity issues with my Legacy units with whistle steam.

They won't chuff, the additional fan will ensure it is a full charge.  Frankly, MTH really has the inside track on this.  Since they already have PWM of heat and fan as separate circuits.  Big steam actually has the heater element get extra voltage as it starts out and is under heavy load, than the heat levels off as the engine starts moving.  So all the programming is available.

TMCC is going to be a harder issue since it has none of the controls Legacy has.  Doesn't legacy use a whole additional board now?

In an ideal world if there were small solenoid valves that could open and close the system would be easier to make.

Unfortunately I think this project (at the retail level) is going to require manufacturing of smoke unit components.  Sure a hobbyist can kit bash some units together, but if you need quantity....

I am modifying a Brass Williams, while you have some space, you also have heavy weights installed, that removing will be detrimental to the running of the loco.  I have a TAS EOB that I am going to use with a MTH 10 pin.  So I can get controls over, and since this board allows puff and chuff with 2 wires to the smoke unit, (one for heat and one for Fan) with no need for a cherry switch the idea of additional smoke output has been on my mind.  I have looked at the MTH Triplex and also reviewed how Lionel has done it for PE and others.  Many of those components arenot available anymore, or at least are out of stock.

Attached is a picture of a Lionel smoke chamber I have for my Williams.  Notice the 2 additional side chambers that actually have holes through the base.  They are isolated by the gasket and cover, but if a small bleed hole was drilled the chamber will pressurize.  I am thinking of running 2 small tubes down to the steam chest to add some steam effect.  Sizing the holes and tube should allow control.

I still think using a chamber as the smoke reserve and porting to the various needs via tube and fans is a more practical model, but to each his own.  I just know from upgrades that the real estate gets used up quickly.  Especially if built to be disassembled.   G

Time will tell which will be a practical method.

Question sir, are you trying to use and HO stack/tube type or a smoke box? Just curious which one....I'd lean towards you picking the box type. 

Well, I don't know what a Stack/Tube is, but this is the MTH HO unit with a small round smoke chamber and on the side is a small (very small) fan.

"Stack/tube type"- simple vertical tube- no fan.

Oh, you mean like the Seuthe units?  No, that was never a consideration, it wouldn't get the job done.

I never heard them called a stack/tube, but it sorta' makes sense now.

Gunner,

you mentioned you could trigger the 5 volt fan from the serial data pin by using aux 6, can you provide a schematic for that? components etc... Making a  casting with hose fittings seems fairly simple

John, have you seen this? How are they doing this so cheap?

http://www.lionel.com/Products/Finder/ProductDetail.cfm?ProductNumber=6-18754&expandBranch=0&Keywords=whistle%20steam&CategoryID=0&RailLineID=&CatalogId=

Might there be an inspiration in this? Of course they need a lot better smoke unit then I've got in mine.

Frank

Patrick, I think he is going to sell it to you.  G

Frank,  Because it is conventional only.  For conventional operations a whistle puts a DC offset on the track.  The circuit to detect that is a simple transistor and a few resistors and capacitors for about $.50.  It is the same relay in a conventional starter set Air whistle tender.  It allows provides the power to run a small dc motor.

For the PE, add a small smoke fan motor with a plastic tube off the main smoke unit and when you press the whistle button the smoke fan motor turns on (along with the whistle) and pushes smoke out the whistle hole.

For TMCC/Legacy using the controller, there is no DC offset placed on the track.  Instead it is serial data coming from the R2lC that tells the RS board to make whistle sounds.  Lionel provides the information on the serial data code for the various functions.  So John, and others are building a decoder that will read the code for whistle, or blow down or any other, and can than use it to control a feature.  Turning on a small 5VDC fan motor.

Building the circuit is easy for those with electronic backgrounds.  I still contend that the mechanical modifications will be more time consuming.  Look at how many different smoke units, nozzles and brackets the manufacturers have.  How much space is available, etc...  G