Philadelphia Subways and Elevated

No, nada, zippo, neit,  and do not hold your breath unless you want to model them yourself. Folks have been asking for years. 

Dan,

Do not abandon hope, ye who enter here!

Joe at Island Modelworks might do a carbody for you, if you can get up the numbers to make such a venture worthwhile. Joe makes a number of rapid transit bodies to fit the frames of others' cars of the same length; you might even be able to find something here on his website that could be adapted to your needs: http://islandmodelworks.com/Oscale.html

If you should wind up doing some "kitbashing" to achieve your heart's desire, Quentin at Q-Car has lots and lots of parts and is a fantastic resource: http://www.qcarcompany.com/

Best of luck!

Hello Dan -----

The Market-Frankford BUDD-built  "Almond Joy" (roof style, heh) EL cars,   and the old Broad Street Subway Cars,  were made as epoxy resin bodies by Imperial Hobby Productions.  But only in HO and N Scales.  IHP (Mike Bartel) did for a short time,  plan to offer those cars in O -Scale but that plan was soon cancelled and those items he removed  from his website.  Perhaps IHP may have made the Kawasaki (1980 era) Broad 4 class Subway Cars --- in HO Scale -- .  Here is the IHP Shapeways' link:   http://www.shapeways.com/shops/ihphobby/?s=0

Steve Olsen totally scratch-built a pre-war Broad Street (South Broad class) in O-Scale -- here BELOW are a few photos of it. 

We few remaining old timer 2-rail O-"Scaler's" have for the past 5  decades,  had  to for the most part,  self-scratch-build our own specific desired subway (and "EL") cars - and trolley cars -- and I have done quite very many NY transit rolling stock myself. 

Sadly, there is - (and has for my 46 years in Philly) - almost no known interest in modeling (and thus production-model-marketing,) "Philadelphia Rapid Transit"  -- a region where the traction fans (and modelers) are mostly quite more into the City and Suburban STREETCARS, past and present,  only.  And there are plenty of models of those various eras, classes,  of Philly region streetcars in all scales available -- both ready to run and epoxy resin kits to finish.

ISLAND MODEL WORKS did produce the Kawasaki 1980 era Broad 4 Subway Cars,  The BUDD Market-Frankford 1960 era (Almond Joy roof) EL Cars,  and the newest Market Frankford  ME-3  (presently operating) EL Cars   BUT all ONLY in HO SCALE.  Here is his webpage with photos of these items;

http://islandmodelworks.com/philly.html

For some reason,  there is very little interest (or not enough) to do any production run of these three car types in O SCALE   -- and remember, ONLY as body shells which you have to finish up - paint, power, etc. etc., to full completion.

 regards - Joe F

BELOW - 3 photos of O SCALE scratch built "South Broad" Subway Car built and finished by Steven Olsen .
Steve also built and maintains  our New York City Model Transit Assn. WEBSITE

Aaah!  Where there's light rail there's hope for HEAVY RAIL!  Island Modelworks Joe had an SIRT "ME-1" available in HO (http://islandmodelworks.com/StatenIsland.html) but no version had ever been made in O.  I begged and pleaded, offered the fact that the MTH BMT Standard was of the same length and breadth, and polled like-minded friends until we had enough buyers for Joe to justify an O Scale/Gauge version:

http://islandmodelworks.com/ONYC.html

It is a wonderful model and perhaps, with the right incentive, he would do the same for you.  The number of Staten Island Rapid Transit Railway - Staten Island Rapid Transit Operating Authority - Staten Island Railway buffs out there is minute by comparison to the number of SEPTA fans in the greater Philly area.  I'd suggest that you beat the bushes for potential buyers at clubs, BLOGs, LHSs, etc, to see how much interest you can generate and then, presuming you can find a fair number of potential customers, approach Joe with your proposition.  He's a really nice guy, a Forum advertiser and makes what I consider to be an excellent product.

And while we're talking about "resources", Joe Franks is just amazing!

Hello Sam  (Holmes)  ---

You are very correct about the SIRT "ME-1 Cars" in O-Scale -- and the "how it got produced" with your strong input  to Joe Ogden at Island Model Works.   Also,  Joe Ogden has long been a member of my NYC Transit Modelers Group (Forum Board) and there was a movement at my group with Joe-O to also get the SIRT car produced.  I and Steve Davis worked with Joe-O on the Body details and refinements -  Steve took EXTENSIVE detailed close up exterior photos of the one car at BERA Musuem including under the car and up on and along its roof, of which I have all copies of.  Steve and I and a few of my NYCTMG members pre-ordered and purchased the SIRT car in O Scale  (I ordered and received 2 cars). 

Steve and I also worked intently with Joe-O on the production (and body details) for the O-Scale IRT 1939 Steinway Low-V Car Bodies, and the BMT 3-Unit D-Type Articulated Subway cars.  Originally on those D-Type Triplex cars,  the roof profile and end details were somewhat slightly incorrect on the pre-production "pilot" master bodies, and the roofs were changed to correct appearance by Joe-O at our insistence.  Joe Ogden works well with people in such matters !

If Joe-O were to produce O-Scale Broad Street (pre-war and post-war) cars -- and Market EL (pre-war and post-war) cars,  I would order a few of each !  So, it is up to others  who are interested, to see if the needed minimum numbers (about 30 cars of each type) can be conjured up, with guarantees of $$ deposit pre-orders --  (money talks and B--S-- walks, heh) !!

regards ! - Joe F

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

Hello again Guys ----

A Boston EL Fan modeler friend of mine, named Scott Ruffinen,  has scratch built some O-Scale BOSTON EL - Subway Cars --- here are some photos of his work -- again, of models never produced commercially.  Mainly due to little to no interest -- remember - BOSTON - Like Philly,  long was and still is a heavy TROLLEY FAN and MODELER based area !

regards - Joe F

Hello,

    As Joe as stated, we have made several O scale models in the past and would be happy to produce more in the future. We can easily produce the Broad Street cars, M3's, or M4's, in O scale as we already produce those models in HO scale. The Staten Island cars were very successful as well, we plan on running those again as complete kits in the future. As Joe also stated, it costs a lot of money to produce the models, if interest were there for at least 25 kits or bodies, we would produce ANY model, provided that we had the resources to produce a highly accurate model. Garner up support for a project and shoot me an email.  We've been very busy producing SEPTA models lately as we have a close relationship with them and they are the driving force behind bringing out our rash of SEPTA models.

Thank you,

Joe

Island Modelworks LLC

Thank you, both Joes and all of your co-conspirators, for producing a beautiful model of the SIRT Rwy. MUEs!

I've been working on my layout design and have just begun construction so that the three BMT Standard units that I've stripped in preparation for converson will have a place to roam - Free Range in Grass Range!  One of the three units is a BMT Standard "locomotive", one is a BMT Standard "trailer" converted using all the necessary parts from a MTH Lo-V, and the third is a straight trailer - all will be numbered accordingly.  I'm hoping to find some trucks with which to motorize more of my BMT trailers and will rely on you experts to guide me.  Q-Car Quentin advises me that there are no appropriate O Scale Maximum Traction trucks out there but perhaps there's something that's close enough.  It's funny that NWSL is just down the road about six hours from me.

Dan-

There is one other possibility you may wish to consider.  As you may know, SEPTA operated used CTA 6000-series PCC el cars on the Norristown line in the 1980s/90s.  MTH CTA sets for these cars still show up on ebay from time to time.  Make sure you get the red-white-blue CTA Bicentennial livery.  From there,  you can operate the cars almost as-is after you change out the car numbers, destination signs, and logos.  They ran this way initially until subsequently repainted into SEPTA's  Bicentennial livery.  I have some of these cars already and intend to repaint full SEPTA at some future date.

If Joe Ogden finally does come out with O-scale Almond Joys, however, I'm ready to play.

Good luck and best wishes.

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Sam and Dan --

Here below are some photos of O-Scale custom created models of some Philly Subway Cars ---These were done by " CTS Rapid " who is an OGR Forum Member;

TOP 2 photos - FRANKFORD (1920) Subway Cars,  

MIDDLE 2 Photos -   MARKET STREET EL (1906) original EL Cars - (done using re-worked MTH I.R.T. Low-V's !) -- 

BOTTOM 2 Photos - BROAD IV (1980) Broad Street Subway car.  

-- just an idea that some people can and do self-create the cars they want in O-Scale.  Of course, one must have learned the basic modeling and scratch building skills....and have a very strong desire to build their cars.

Regards ! - Joe F

  

 

Hi-

If anyone knows CTSRapid, or if he happens to see this post, I would like to ask him some ? about the Broad St Line Cars he built.  Amazing.   My email is jcovertpa@gmail.com

Thanks

As a kid, I rode those older Frankfort El cars many times, going in town with my mother to shop at Wanamakers, Gimbals, Snellenburgs, Lits.  To me, they were like riding on a monorail they swayed so much.  

In 1983, I was working in town and would take the Broad Street Subway to center city.  That summer, the new orange cars showed up.  I remember coming home one day, riding in one of them for the first time.  The air-conditioning must have been on full tilt or malfunctioning.  While it was a thrill to be riding the new cars for the first time, I couldn't wait to get to Fern Rock !

I grew up right next to the Boulevard.  The Almond Joy cars were being delivered to Frankfort when I was about 12 years old, 1960.  My buddies and I would sit on the curb of the Boulevard and besides counting cars, would wait to see the new El cars being carried on flat bed trailers.  Ah, the things that make you happy as a kid.  Wait, those same things still make me happy ! 

Jeff-

Broad Street subway is an Atlas Comet commuter car in disguise.  Any of several roads they modeled will do.  Sides are covered with Evergreen clear plastic sheets for windows and recovered with Evergreen corrugated strips below the window line to simulate fluted stainless steel streamlined panels.  Add downloaded pictures from prototypical photos (including those peculiar destination signs) and M.V. colored lenses and you have something resembling those colorful orange cars.  Have used same technique for long modern cars from Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto.  Takes a bit of time and patience, however.

MTH made a couple of Septa trolleys, might not be current production.

Lee Fritz

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Hi, if you go to the nicholas smith website you what you want.

phil

All the Subway Cars look very nice. 

Good luck , John 

CTSRapid posted:

Jeff-

Broad Street subway is an Atlas Comet commuter car in disguise.  Any of several roads they modeled will do.  Sides are covered with Evergreen clear plastic sheets for windows and recovered with Evergreen corrugated strips below the window line to simulate fluted stainless steel streamlined panels.  Add downloaded pictures from prototypical photos (including those peculiar destination signs) and M.V. colored lenses and you have something resembling those colorful orange cars.  Have used same technique for long modern cars from Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto.  Takes a bit of time and patience, however.

Hi CTS-

Thanks - that helps.  If you have any other photos of the Broad St cars could you please post or shoot me an email with the photos?

I looked up the Atlas Comet Commuter cars online.  Are they the same as Comet II commuter cars, or is there a Comet 1 commuter car?

Thanks again - never thought I would see a Broad St subway car made by someone.

Jeff

Joseph,

  As always, spectacular work on your part. Thanks for posting your pictures.

Tom 

Hello Tom --

Thanks for the support --  I would expect same from an ex Bronx "Mountie" (Mt St Mike)  guy - just like me !!  

I am very glad to see so much response and interest posted here for the PRT / PTC / SEPTA  era Broad Street Subway Cars and Market Frankford EL Cars - pre war and post war car types.    When I was the main Tech Support person since 2000 for all the MTH produced O-Gauge NYC Subway Sets cars,  I brought up,  back in the mid 2000's,  with the MTH VP Mark H.,  whom I had been continually working closely with,   the topic about possibly doing a production run of Philly Subway-EL cars  - as MTH was producing the O-Gauge CHICAGO EL CARS.   After some survey research done, there was far not enough interest volume nor support expressed to consider any such Philly Subway-EL production models -- as MTH would have had to produce at least a thousand model units (based on 3 or 4 car sets) and sell them - for each carbody type produced - to cover tool & die, and manufacturing, shipping, etc.,  costs and make any profits. 

Re: the MTH Chicago EL Cars,  there was a tremendous volume amount of survey research interest, support,  (just as with the NY Subway sets) and pre-order-promises, to take a chance producing them.  And they all sold well.

NYC Subway-EL  car models,  and  Chicago Subway-EL  (and Chicago Interurban  Lines) car models,   were already quite well long  sales-established since the 1960's thru the then-mid-2000's,  in HO Scale, some in N Scale, and a few in O-Scale,  as brass,  white metal,  or epoxy resin models, by various Jobber-Importer-Manufacturers of those decades.  There was NOTHING at all like that ever realized for Philly Subway Cars as far as ANY production in any scales of Philly Subway-EL Car models.  There was a reason why !!  Just NOT enough volume of interest level !!

However, there was quite enough interest in the MTH produced "PCC" Trolley Car line, and as you see, MTH did produce an O-Gauge PCC Car done up in many Transit Name schemes, as well as in a few SEPTA color schemes,  including the Green-Cream PTC version of the Pre-SEPTA era.  These all are long ago sold out !  This was also the case for many decades  of the production and sales of HO, N and some O Scale brass,  white metal, and plastic production manufactured models of PCC  (and standard body)  model streetcars, and those limited runs done in epoxy resin --- many done in various Philly paint schemes (PTC, SEPTA)

As I stated earlier,  Philly was and still is mainly a TROLLEY CAR fan and TROLLEY CAR modelers "city and region".  And that is what you see at the Philly region railroad and traction shows !  Also Philly has a large railfan base for commuter rail (ex-READING RR,  ex-PENNSYLVANIA RR,  ex-B&O RR and SEPTA Regional Rail.) 

Perhaps NOW enough interest can be generated thru people here (and other forums) to have these Philly Subway-EL Car O-Scale Models produced in smooth resin in the limited run (25, 30 items) numbers minimum required to start to produce them.  Perhaps by IMW.

BELOW  top photo is an O SCALE fully scratch built Chicago wood EL Car built by friend ED HALSTEAD some years ago, 

and the BOTTOM photo is my old friend BOB OLSON's  (no relation to Steve Olsen)  fully scratch built O-SCALE wooden BMT "C" type EL train (ran on Fulton Street EL) on his scratch built BMT EL and layout - and his O-Scale Brooklyn streetcars on the streets below.  We are in the scratch-builders "dinosaur era"  modeling club,  heh !

regards - Joe F

Up Hayes...and all it's loyal men. 

Jeff-

Here's another view.

CTSRapid posted:

Jeff-

Here's another view.

Great !  Thank you - jeff

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello Tom --

Thanks for the support --  I would expect same from an ex Bronx "Mountie" (Mt St Mike)  guy - just like me !!  

I am very glad to see so much response and interest posted here for the PRT / PTC / SEPTA  era Broad Street Subway Cars and Market Frankford EL Cars - pre war and post war car types.    When I was the main Tech Support person since 2000 for all the MTH produced O-Gauge NYC Subway Sets cars,  I brought up,  back in the mid 2000's,  with the MTH VP Mark H.,  whom I had been continually working closely with,   the topic about possibly doing a production run of Philly Subway-EL cars  - as MTH was producing the O-Gauge CHICAGO EL CARS.   After some survey research done, there was far not enough interest volume nor support expressed to consider any such Philly Subway-EL production models -- as MTH would have had to produce at least a thousand model units (based on 3 or 4 car sets) and sell them - for each carbody type produced - to cover tool & die, and manufacturing, shipping, etc.,  costs and make any profits. 

Re: the MTH Chicago EL Cars,  there was a tremendous volume amount of survey research interest, support,  (just as with the NY Subway sets) and pre-order-promises, to take a chance producing them.  And they all sold well.

NYC Subway-EL  car models,  and  Chicago Subway-EL  (and Chicago Interurban  Lines) car models,   were already quite well long  sales-established since the 1960's thru the then-mid-2000's,  in HO Scale, some in N Scale, and a few in O-Scale,  as brass,  white metal,  or epoxy resin models, by various Jobber-Importer-Manufacturers of those decades.  There was NOTHING at all like that ever realized for Philly Subway Cars as far as ANY production in any scales of Philly Subway-EL Car models.  There was a reason why !!  Just NOT enough volume of interest level !!

However, there was quite enough interest in the MTH produced "PCC" Trolley Car line, and as you see, MTH did produce an O-Gauge PCC Car done up in many Transit Name schemes, as well as in a few SEPTA color schemes,  including the Green-Cream PTC version of the Pre-SEPTA era.  These all are long ago sold out !  This was also the case for many decades  of the production and sales of HO, N and some O Scale brass,  white metal, and plastic production manufactured models of PCC  (and standard body)  model streetcars, and those limited runs done in epoxy resin --- many done in various Philly paint schemes (PTC, SEPTA)

As I stated earlier,  Philly was and still is mainly a TROLLEY CAR fan and TROLLEY CAR modelers "city and region".  And that is what you see at the Philly region railroad and traction shows !  Also Philly has a large railfan base for commuter rail (ex-READING RR,  ex-PENNSYLVANIA RR,  ex-B&O RR and SEPTA Regional Rail.) 

Perhaps NOW enough interest can be generated thru people here (and other forums) to have these Philly Subway-EL Car O-Scale Models produced in smooth resin in the limited run (25, 30 items) numbers minimum required to start to produce them.  Perhaps by IMW.

BELOW  top photo is an O SCALE fully scratch built Chicago wood EL Car built by friend ED HALSTEAD some years ago, 

and the BOTTOM photo is my old friend BOB OLSON's  (no relation to Steve Olsen)  fully scratch built O-SCALE wooden BMT "C" type EL train (ran on Fulton Street EL) on his scratch built BMT EL and layout - and his O-Scale Brooklyn streetcars on the streets below.  We are in the scratch-builders "dinosaur era"  modeling club,  heh !

regards - Joe F

 

I would def be interested if there was a run of El cars (Almond Joy type), or Orange Broad St line Cars.

Jeff

Nice use of Lionel Superliner II Trucks!

PRR-

Ooh- good catch!  Although not exactly accurate (they aren't really Lionel Superliner II trucks), it did remind me that the template for the model was NOT the Atlas Comet II commuter car as I advised Jeff Covert.  Atlas made a variation of the Comet in the form of Amtrak Horizon passenger cars and that was the car and the trucks used on the SEPTA version.  I did use the Comet for subsequent conversions to Baltimore, Boston, Cleveland, and Toronto cars.  My apologies to Jeff and the group for the bum gouge.  Thank God for all the eagle eyes out there.

Thanks for clarifying CTSRapid

I was looking thru my mth subway sets today, and realized the CTA 30-2477 set bears a close resemblance to the orange Philly subway cars.  I might be on the look out for some more of these cars for repainting and new decals.

Hello Guys

PERHAPS we should create a survey for Joe @ IMW on this thread as to who want to have these BELOW items in O-Scale:

Using the " a to h " list below:

---------BROAD STREET SUBWAY --  PRE-WAR CARS:

(a) - North Broad / B-1 Cars  (1926 built original cars)

(b) - South Broad / B-2 Cars   (1938 built Pattison Ave. Extension cars)

(c) - Broad St. Subway  / B-3 BRIDGE line cars (built in 1936)

---------BROAD STREET SUBWAY --  POST-WAR CARS:

(d) - Broad IV Cars (Built in 1980-81 - Modern Orange scheme cars)

----------MARKET - FRANKFORD EL CARS - PRE-WAR CARS:

(e) - Original "Market St" line EL (ME-1) Cars built in 1906

(f) - Later 'Frankford Extension Line"  EL (ME-2) Cars built in 1919-20

---------MARKET - FRANKFORD EL CARS - POST-WAR CARS:

(g) -  BUDD BUILT "Almond Joy Roof" new EL (ME-3) Cars built in 1959-60

(h) - ADTRANZ BUILT  NEW  (ME-4)  EL Cars currently (2016)  running  built in 1997

Thanks Joe for taking the initiative to set up the survey.

G: Budd Built 'Almond Joy Roof' El Cars

D : Broad IV Cars - modern orange cars

Joe-

Amen to that- great initiative on your part!  I'm all in on "G- Almond Joys" if and when.  Well done and many thanx!

Hello Jeff C

Well, some advice, unfortunately;   The CTA Chicago (MTH CTA 30-2477) Cars are much shorter very vaguely similar cars to the longer and wider Broad St Subway B-4 Subway Cars.

The prototype Chicago EL Cars  -(per MTH set 30-2477)-  bodies are just inside 9 feet wide x 48 feet long ---

The prototype Broad Street Subway B-4 car bodies are  10 feet wide x 67 feet long

See Images below attached comparing both body types;  Your cursor placed over the photo shows the caption;

You could get a few 2 car ADD ON sets and cut up the body panels to create the proper window (W) and door (Door) spacing arrangement for the Broad 4 cars as follows:       W - Door - W-W-W - Door - W-W - Door - W-W 

Compare that with the CTA Car image above !

However, the BOTTOMS of the door windows on the B4 Car are also located quite higher up than those on the CTA Car Model doors !

By the way - the 2nd photo above shows the HO Scale MODEL of the Broad St Subway B4 Car created by Island Model Works  -- This could be done in O-Scale if enough valid support comes thru !

BELOW is a rare  and unusual image of CTA EL Car 2211 of the CTA 2200 Series, shown in PTC-SEPTA Fern Rock Yards of the Broad St. Subway among the Broad Street Line's original standard stock -- this view from August 24, 1969  (47 years ago !) .   LONG BEFORE some second hand CTA EL cars were brought to Philly to run on the standard gauge track (as Broad St Subway track is)   of the Red Arrow Lines Norristown Hi-Speed Line !

Regards - Joe F

Alentown posted:

Up Hayes...and all it's loyal men. 

Boo hiss. 

 Tom 

Hi joe

Thanks for the sage advice.  Thinking back, having ridden on the CTA EL, there is certainly a big size difference compared to the philly subway.   Back to the drawing board.....

Looks like we drum up enough interest to get cars made, or it's off to Atlas horizon cars 

Cool pic of the CTA 2200 at Fern Rock

I remember being on the sub at fern rock, wondering if the train would ever make it to the platform. When one wants to get home, it seems like a long ride around the yard

Hello Guys

Well, heh, except for me and 2 others here  showing ACTIVE purchase interest so far,  have I proven my stated point that there is scant little MODELING interest in Philly Subway & EL system rolling stock in O-Scale to convince any MFG to produce these cars - and why they have not been done in O Scale ever before ?  And only a few in  "epoxy resin body shell" tiny limited production runs in HO  Scale (and maybe N Scale) !!!

I'll place my vote for d & g

Joe-

Q.E.D., unfortunately.  Well, if Philly is the dead end you predicted, how about returning to the fountainhead of O-scale subways, i.e., the Big Apple.  If anyone has his finger on the pulse of MTH, it is clearly yourself.  Given MTH's prolonged dormant period, there seem to be only two directions left: newer models (expensive) or the one missing link in the older collection- the R15 everyone has been seeking for years.  Any chance?

Hello CTSRapid

I have had many solely friendly-chat based conversations with the VP at MTH over the past few years -- and other than the new line of HO SCALE NYC Subway cars they have been involved with -- there are no plans definite yet for the future on any new tool & die created new O Scale NYC subway models.  There are 2 models that we had on the drawing board for consideration back around 2006  -- that is, until the economy took a big dump starting near the end of 2007 and mainly all thru 2008 -- with little decent recovery to this present date (as we all know, feel, see, read and hear).  (Just look at your savings accounts bank interest !!!)   Those two cars were the IND R-10 and the IRT R-15. 

As it was,  bulk sales and new item pre-orders dropped in late 2006 thru 2008 for MTH newest-production NYC Subway set O-Scale items....and therefore far less total production numbers were produced of those affected sets,  than was normal in sets of previous  years,  to satisfy the diminished numbers of new pre-orders and sales.  MTH and the whole hobby industry felt the failing economy - - and MTH since then over the past few years have only produced small re-runs of years-earlier produced O Gauge NYC subway sets.

And as you see LIONEL only produced an R-16 , R-27 and R-30 Set using the same R-27 body tool & dies  -- and that was it.  No more new NYC subway sets from them for a long time....nor even any new tool & die created body style designs !

Also, NYC Subway sets have long been seen being sold on EBAY in significant numbers -- and privately on some forum boards and chat boards.  I know of at least 5 people who sold all or much of their subway sets due to job loss,   cut back work time, and economic problems. Or just lost interest over the past few years under this economy and its financial challenges !  Anyway, that's the status quo as it has been and is. 

Here are some photos on my EL Line  of my own scratch built IRT R-15 Car in O-Scale.  The O-Scale IRT R-17 Car seen coupled behind my R-15 Car I scratch built also, and is NOT the MTH R-17 model which was produced many years AFTER I scratch built both these shown models back around 2000-01.

PS:  O-Scale Philly Subway Car models may not be dead if enough interest over time can be generated to do a small production run  (30 cars at the least) thru Joe O at IMW.  But of course, they still then have to be painted, have interiors, trucks, and underbody added, and be  (2 rail or 3 rail system) powered.  And the model-purchaser must have the skills to do that work  !!

regards - Joe

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Did you ever see Jimmy Sparkman's large scale PRT/PRT cars? I saw them many, many years ago.    Sweet.

Wonder how many people would be interested in "Almond Joys"? 

Joe-

Many thanx for your perceptive and insightful analysis; you clearly are the go-to guy on this stuff.  Really admire how you weave in all the socio-economic elements to complete the big picture.  Oh well, all I can do at this point is drool over your fantastic R15.  That will have to do for now.

Rule292 posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Do any of the manufacturers make or have made models of the Broad Street Subway or the Market Frankfort elevated trains ?  I see beaucoup New York City versions but haven't come across any PTC or SEPTA models.

Did you ever see Jimmy Sparkman's large scale PRT/PRT cars? I saw them many, many years ago.    Sweet.

Wonder how many people would be interested in "Almond Joys"? 

I would be very interested in the "Almond Joys". I road those guys every Friday night to the dances on the Boulevard. in the fifties and sixties.