Played with DCS WIFI at the local Train Store - my 2 penny's worth

I played around with it at York and I liked it. Very easy to set up and to use. For those who think MTH will open their source code has not be paying attention. I believe it will not happen in Mike wolf's life time. 

Even though in the very near future HO by MTH will out sell their O gauge line they still don't fully comply to the NMRA rules for DCC. It is included in their locomotives along with dcs. 

I do agree it is far better than the current remote.  I think the design issues are really with taking a system that was fairly closed that typically had one remote and system and opening it to potential of multiple devices and opportunities.  The overall design of the App good, but I think the back end system method was a short cut that will have to be resolved in the future.

You mention DCC, it may be time to just let DCS die off and just go back to DCC, or run control DCC over AC.

BB 

Bill,

They have a route hanging from the ceiling that they limit to slow 30mph to ensure it does not derail.  If you use the free app, there is no way to limit the max speed for that user, thus 120mph speed could be set and the train could fall on someone's head. MTH really needs to change the database settings to the train, to the TIU, or a Cloud instead of the remote or the app. It maybe the wish of backward compatibility has to be dropped for the old remote. 

The app works exactly like the remote. The Maximum Speed setting is in the remote, and someone with a different remote can override it.

This is as it should be, so that an adult can override a kid's use of DCS to speed up a train to get out out of the way of another train.

Case in point, as new user, I was playing with the train on the table layout, I was using the + and - keys for speed control and fat fingered "120mph".  This made the train just take off in speed.  I could not figure out what I did or how to stop it quickly.  Good thing it was not the train in the air. 

All you needed to do to quickly stop the train was to, just like on a remote, press E-STOP. 

BTW, fat fingering QuickSet Speed can do exactly what you did and cause a speedup to 120 SMPH.

• No Cloud means that if you have multiple devices, you will have to set them up multiple times and that there is not a easy save feature.
• Hopefully for the more complex features there will be a way to transfer setups to multiple devices, i.e. your phone and your tablet.

The Pro version of the app, due out this Spring, will have a backup/restore feature just like the one that can be used with the DCS Remote.

There is no password protection or way to lock settings.  The settings for train max speed, accelerate rates... for example anyone can get to.  If you wanted to hand the pad to your son or grandson, there is no way to keep them from messing with all these settings.  This is also key if you wanted to set up a station at LBS, train show, or interactive train display, like at a hospital or Christmas event.

This works exactly like the DCS Remote.

The value of open source is to get more development of your code, more app development, more solution development, and bigger market.  It is obvious and should be to MTH that they do not have the pocket book to bank roll a large staff to develop this app and all the nifty things that could come along side of it.  MTH is doing a open source like test now with a large beta, but now needs to go to the next level with at least giving us the DCS code book or API

A very bad idea, from a support point of view. If done, anyone  could modify the system and distribute modified copies. Then, the recipient would be calling MTH with issues that they cannot fix and questions about why something does what it does, that MTH can't answer.

Take the layout at the hospital or Christmas event, now with WIFI, there is no reason we cannot do a custom app to run our trains, accessories, and lights and more.  I still need to buy the WIFI, TIUs, and MTH trains....  However, we needs the DCS command sets or API to do so.

You don't have the rights to "the DCS command sets or API". The only people outside of MTH who are going to get those are going to be bona fide developers who sign agreements with MTH.

You didn't offer a single positive statement about the product, only what you considered to be its shortcomings.

My opinion of your so-called "review" is really nothing more than an attempt to criticize, rather than to provide any illumination of the product under discussion.

I agree with Barry in that it sounds like a total negative critique, whether he meant it or not.  I feel the 'issues' could have been avoided by  trained store staff giving each new user of the free app a hands-on session before that user is allowed to operate on his own.  If done in the right frame of mind it could go a long ways to creating an eventual sale and creating a 'return' customer as he grows his railroad. To let kids (or certain adults)  run the app 'right out of the gate'  without a preamble is just asking for trouble. Common sense is a rare commodity these days.

Barry Broskowitz posted:

You didn't offer a single positive statement about the product, only what you considered to be its shortcomings.

My opinion of your so-called "review" is really nothing more than an attempt to criticize, rather than to provide any illumination of the product under discussion.

Seriously?  Take your blinders off and assume that someone has positive intent.  I have no intention on criticizing.  

Please re-read my post and assume you are busy shop owner that cannot watch some kid that down loads the app connects to the layout or you hand the ipad to your granddaughter and she starts to run her finger everywhere as you fiddle under your layout table.  Then what?  "Just hit the E-Stop" while the Train is falling on your head as if crashes off layout because the kid with downloaded APP has a top speed default of 120mph and your app has it set to top speed of 60mph?  Or your grand daughter changed it to 120mph by random and now she can send it flying? 

This is a major platform change that will take some changes to get right.  MTH and you need to listen to the community on issues they see in how it operates with the use cases that the new way it will be uses brings up.  It may take some deep thought and even deeper product changes to make it work.     

All the other great and wonderful things about the WIFI have been gushed about on this site, why does it have to be said again?  It think it is great progress and look forward to watching it move forward.  It would be great if there was a notice of bug fixes and planned releases beyond the "BIG ONE" that just gets up to the big remote.  If it just stops there, then it is a waste of the effort.

B

I like it so when we have to go out to dinner, I can run trains at home while waiting on the check.

That is a new one, instead of checking face book it will be, "Excuse, me I have to check my trains."  

Please re-read my post

I did and it's still nothing but criticism.

assume you are busy shop owner that cannot watch some kid that down loads the app connects to the layout or you hand the ipad to your granddaughter and she starts to run her finger everywhere as you fiddle under your layout table.

Then the shop owner is fool if he doesn't simply secure access to the WiFi unit using its build-in password protection. That way, one cannot use the app unless he lets them, after first laying down guidelines and explaining how things work.

This is a major platform change that will take some changes to get right.  MTH and you need to listen to the community on issues they see in how it operates with the use cases that the new way it will be uses brings up.  It may take some deep thought and even deeper product changes to make it work. 

To whom should they listen? You, the guy who couldn't find a single positive thing to say about their product? Or maybe their beta testers, who know DCS, better than does MTH, from an operational standpoint. Do you actually think that development is being done in a vacuum?

All the other great and wonderful things about the WIFI have been gushed about on this site, why does it have to be said again?

Because you said it's a review. If you want to be honest, retitle your post "All The Things I Didn't Like About the DCS APP".

It would be great if there was a notice of bug fixes and planned releases beyond the "BIG ONE" that just gets up to the big remote.

Who says that there isn't? There is, but that's not necessarily anyone's right to know except MTH and the beta tesdters.

If it just stops there, then it is a waste of the effort.

No kidding!

You're just trolling. Good luck with that.

Barry, I wish you a good evening.  Merry Christmas, Bill

Well said Barry. I feel most will agree with you. It's just common sense there will be tweaks coming to the first two apps as they get more exposure. Developers and beta testers don't always get it perfect and I certainly don't mean that in anynegative context. While the app isn't rocket science, it's also NOT a 'no brainer' and an incident can easily happen without a little pre-instruction. You don't change from Microsoft to Apple and just start pounding keys. I feel it's imperative for the LHS to present instruction to any new user, child or adult before they go solo and that's a simple procedure to implement if the LHS actually cares about customer service. Thank you MTH and BB for bringing and documenting this new technology. As they say, it's going to be quite a ride.

Alrighty gentlemen, let's settle down here, it's the Christmas season, there is no need or time to bicker over a silly app, everyone has their likes and dislikes of the app, it's that simple. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinions.  I'm sure that if there are any problems with the WiFi app, MTH will take care of it shortly and it will be fixed in the next couple updates.    

I liked the App and I had no problems putting the 9 year old kids in charge of the layout with my phone. They liked it and found it extremely easy to use and also listened to me when I told them if they put it over 45mph they were done. It has also eliminted any of the RF out of range errors I get with my remotes

Mr.Bill,

Thank you for your thoughts...we seem to agree on a number of thing that would take a first draft and make it a quality product.

Without attempting to get the whole set of the above issues rolling again, I am concerned about the [+] vs. 120mpg issue the most.  Not sure how the beta testers missed that one!

My thoughts on the Free App specifically are here:

https://ogrforum.com/t...91#48311781318872891

Hoping for a quick update!

Ed

Not to take sides - but Bill is giving a fresh eye's approach to a product that to me seems quite involved. I like the idea of being able to leave the remote at home when traveling to a fellow club members house and running my trains, how ever it sounds like there are few bugs to work out here. I hope MTH gets it right

While I found Bill's thoughts interesting, what lacked was what he liked about it, which I think is part of Barry's problem with his review.  Typically reviews give the good and the bad.  I have been playing with the App at home and at the LHS.  While there are some bugs to work out and some features I'd like to see that Bill mentions I also find it very intuitive and simple to use.  The interface is well thought out and I really like access to the menu items with out a lot of searching.  While my exposure to the app is limited to a loop and test track my first impressions is MTH has created a nice platform that can only get better. 

Yes the 120 mph bug is there as is some of the issues of adding engine that folks have encountered.  I think Bill's thoughts are all valid but I would also of liked to hear what he liked about it as specifically as the things he did not.

I apologize for causing a stink and did not intend to do so.  

I also think that most of this has been covered before by everyone, which I think have been spot on reviews.  I have enjoyed reading much about it from those that have deployed this system already.

As requested here are my David Letterman's top 10 things I like about the app:

10. From the first time I purchased the O gauge trains, I was surprised that the remotes were not based on a better platform.  I was also surprised that Lionel had produced the new Legacy remote, 2012 I think, during instead of just going direct to the app based system.  I am happy this has finally released from MTH.  

9. I no longer have to remember what 3 letters means like LMK, S02, SSU....   

8. I like that you can touch 20mph and the train can accelerate to 20mph.  So now the acceleration speed/second you set actually makes since you could not spin the wheel fast enough to accelerate or decelerate to a speed you wanted to set with the wheel.  This is much more handy for slowing trains.  

7. The system reacts much faster than before. 

6. Switching trains for controls is nice by touching the top bar, either touch to go to next or touch get to the list.  This better than the remote by far.

5. There is easy to use buttons for the main features, and not confused with number key pads, F1 keys, or layouts that are different in each train.

4. Sounds and such are slider bars rather than guessing where you are in the matrix of the sound level for example. 

3. I can have more than one controller, i.e. phone, tablet, ...

2. I am hopeful to see how the AIU and additional functions integrate into the app.

1. Unlike Lionel, MTH offered Andriod and IOS Apple, which is a very big step in gaining world wide adoption and usage.  This also added a lot of complexity to their solution.  I have both IOS and Andriod devices, so I would like to be able to use both with the layout. 

The full featured APP that is being developed should provide some helpful additional features.  Meanwhile the free APP is sufficient for my purposes since I also have a standard DCS remote to setup routes and control blocks. I intend to use a password protected local WIFI network when connecting to the DCS WIFI unit.

Oh yeah! That's all the shop owner have to do! Baby sit customers. Train them on high tech products used by few....I mean this thing sells for ?? 159.00. Wow, big sale..and the possible number of units going out the door? Wow, those stores should be the size of Wal-Mart next year. oh, yeah! Give the Customer free help...(On something high tech) then they go buy something somewhere else....Then, come back for help on that product. It's the way it is today! It is something 'SOME" of the companies are causing by their sales policies. It will ultimately bring a down fall.

I mean the internet sales are big! Let Amazon show them how to use it....or Lionel and MTH.