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(Am going to use 1/2". Not willing to ck off to 3/4 - using L girder and cookie cutter )     Am having no luck at finding 4x8  5 to 7 ply either birch or maple plywood in the Northern ATL area. All Lowes stores that say they have some in stock - don't.  So question, did find at Lowes a 7ply 1/2" 4x8 blondewood  - primed on one side.  Does anyone have any experience with "blondewood".  I looked it up, can contain various types of wood, typically foreign made, doesn't appear to have voids / hollow spots. Our joists r 12" to 14" apart so not spaning 24".   Really want the 7ply birch; it ain't happening.  Maple - nada. Frustrating.   Did find 1/2" 4x8 homasote at Capitol Materials near Cumming, GA. $64 for a 4x8 sheet. Sheesh

Tom

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@TomSuperO posted:

(Am going to use 1/2". Not willing to ck off to 3/4 - using L girder and cookie cutter )     Am having no luck at finding 4x8  5 to 7 ply either birch or maple plywood in the Northern ATL area. All Lowes stores that say they have some in stock - don't.  So question, did find at Lowes a 7ply 1/2" 4x8 blondewood  - primed on one side.  Does anyone have any experience with "blondewood".  I looked it up, can contain various types of wood, typically foreign made, doesn't appear to have voids / hollow spots. Our joists r 12" to 14" apart so not spaning 24".   Really want the 7ply birch; it ain't happening.  Maple - nada. Frustrating.   Did find 1/2" 4x8 homasote at Capitol Materials near Cumming, GA. $64 for a 4x8 sheet. Sheesh

Tom

Try a real lumber yard other than a big box store

Try a real lumber yard other than a big box store

Jackson, wow, 1/4" and no problems.  interesting.  I'm thinking we're pretty good (safe - non sagging)  w 1/2". I don't want to over engineer this thing -esp at these lumber prices, but don't want to also say shoulda coulda.  I may just go get the blondewood and move fwd.

Dave, Lumber yards were my 1st choice. Called a ton of std lumber yards around here. Nothing. The cupboards are bare. Then deferred to the big box stores. Still nothing.  I might have had a bit more luck back home, but then I'd have to transport it 12 hrs to get it here and if it rains on the way - yikes!!.  I have 3 days to start laying some track or i'm not back till late summer / early fall.

Tom     

I bought this plywood at my local Home Depot in Tacoma a few weeks ago, for $49. It has gone up nearly $10 in price since then.  I was really pleased with it for an extension to my train layout.  Note that I live in Tacoma, perhaps one of the timber capitals of the world, one-time homes to Weyerhaeuser and Ben Cheney (who invented the 2by4) and also current home to the "American Plywood Association". So, it was somewhat of a surprise that the plywood I purchased was from Ecuador.  That aside, it worked well for me, also appreciate the team at the Home Depot who cut the wood to the dimensions I needed.     

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@TomSuperO posted:

Jackson, wow, 1/4" and no problems.  interesting.  I'm thinking we're pretty good (safe - non sagging)  w 1/2". I don't want to over engineer this thing -esp at these lumber prices, but don't want to also say shoulda coulda.  I may just go get the blondewood and move fwd.

Dave, Lumber yards were my 1st choice. Called a ton of std lumber yards around here. Nothing. The cupboards are bare. Then deferred to the big box stores. Still nothing.  I might have had a bit more luck back home, but then I'd have to transport it 12 hrs to get it here and if it rains on the way - yikes!!.  I have 3 days to start laying some track or i'm not back till late summer / early fall.

Tom     

Im guessing it must be regional , from what I have seen here in WI the shelves have been full, no issues getting what I want, from either Menards Home Depot , and the local yards,  I dont see "The Lumber Shortage!"  Touted here , but then again , I live in an area where logging and timber production is the main industry, and with the frost restrictions, coming off the roads. the timber trucks have been back on the roads/    As Far as Prices, its all related to the cost of Fuel  and the effect it has on everything  .

The question is whether you plan on standing on your layout. If not, you can use 1/4" with proper support. Two-inch extruded foam can also be used if you aren't going to stand on it. I was planning on using 3/8" OSB on 16" bracing in 4-foot sections. For the beams, I was looking at using 3/4" PVC "lumber" (after testing its characteristics) since it's dimensionally stable.

@AGHRMatt posted:

The question is whether you plan on standing on your layout. If not, you can use 1/4" with proper support. Two-inch extruded foam can also be used if you aren't going to stand on it. I was planning on using 3/8" OSB on 16" bracing in 4-foot sections. For the beams, I was looking at using 3/4" PVC "lumber" (after testing its characteristics) since it's dimensionally stable.

exactly!

Advantech by Huber industries.  Absolutely the flattest, most moisture resistant 4 X 8' panel available.  Has become one of the most desired subfloor materials in the construction industry.  Solid and heavy, great for sound control.  Can easily span 32" fingers with out longitudinal frame members for model RR's.  I have been using it for many years with out failure.

Be careful not to use their entry level "Blue" product.  It is OK but not the very best.

You certainly don't need birch plywood.  I don't get that, it's a waste of money.  Advantech is a good product indeed for deck plywood in new construction but 3/4" tongue and groove underlayment is way overkill for a toy train layout.  Frank, it's not light, basically an OSB with high tech glue for moisture resistance.  I just sold a job today @ $71.44 a sheet.  I work at a lumberyard, been selling sticks for 35 years.  Homasote is actually quite rigid in itself if you don't have to crawl on it.  If you do, 1/2" CDX Fir with 1/2' Homasote on top is what I have used with success.  Or 1/2" square edge Fir underlayment if you don't want the homasote on top.  Forget the birch plywood and 3/4",  Just my opinion, its a free country last I heard.

Last edited by William 1

Many years ago...after having a 'Contractor's Corner' representative at a well-known local home improvement chain store respond to my 'Do you have...?' inquiry with: "What's Homasote?"...I went to a local lumber mill that has a  100-year history in our city.  They, of course, were well versed in Homasote.  However, there were several caveats to procuring it from them.

First, and most importantly, they do not typically stock it.  The reason is quite simple.  Because it is essentially a 'paper' (cellulose) product, it MUST be stored in a climate-controlled environment.  The call for Homasote is so low, so random, they cannot afford to store a quantity of it in their only relatively small climate-controlled facility.  Which leads to the next most significant problem...

Unless you are ordering a significant quantity of full sheets of Homasote, they cannot meet the minimal quantity requisite from either the manufacturer or the freight shipper.  At that time, anyway, a full stack of Homasote sheets was in a factory-wrapped package, requiring enclosed trailering, which often was not a full-load proposition for a shipper.  Rates were/are accordingly, applied to the per-sheet price, of course.

Then, too, all of the above might result in long lead times to receive an order.  They apparently had developed some information about other regional mills and stores that purveyed Homasote--and similar construction materials having like caveats.  If it was acceptable to you, the buyer, for your minimal quantity of full sheets and timing not being critical, they would inquire of that list of regional suppliers to see if there might be a source within 'reasonable' driving distance...and get back to you...in a few days...hopefully.   Safe transport therefrom would usually be up to the buyer.

And, no returns of full sheets...period.

IOW, to the construction material retailer pro-in-the-know, I got the feeling that, although Homasote is a unique, sometimes useful material (we're NOT talking about being market-limited to model railroad builders/enthusiasts here!) in the trade, it's a bit of a PITA for them to deal in.

Back then, I gave up the idea of using it.  Too much trouble for the expense.  And, besides, I was in 'the dark side' of the HObby.  Noise reduction was actually quite trivial a problem in the scheme of things...IMHO, of course.

Fast forward a bunch of years ...

Well, more recently we have a couple of Menard's outlets locally.  They do, indeed, stock/sell Homasote (Thank you, Mr. John Menard, a model railroad hobbyist!).  Typically sold in half-sheets.  And their stores are adequately climate controlled for proper storage.  Not a national solution for the hobbyist, but a growing regional one.

FWIW and from my own experience.

Last edited by dkdkrd

My contractor for my shop an train room bought me extra Advantech and 2x4’s 10 years ago. As he used the Advantech for all my floors and roof.   My layout is 12x24 and has 2” styrofoam on top. Tung an groove Advantech works well.  I fished my train room walls and then built my layout table a year later.

Mentioned the sheets above just as an alternative to the plywood.  You won’t need a finished ply if you cover it up with styrofoam or homasote just saying.

Good luck to you 😊

Seth

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The last few posts get to the solution of plywood shortage for a train boards.  The bench work  will not be seen and is an excellent spot to use  low grade 1/2 inch plywood, the kind used for roofing and siding in most houses.  Or even better, used plywood from tear downs or remodeling.

I have had a hard time with the emphasis some places put on high grade materials for train boards and prefabbed bench work like Mianne hardwood bench work, but I am practical and frugal.

Charlie

@AGHRMatt posted:
For the beams, I was looking at using 3/4" PVC "lumber" (after testing its characteristics) since it's dimensionally stable.
PVC trim such as Azek, Kleer or others are no good for structural support,  even for the loads layouts have.    Although moisture stable they do move with temperature.  A curved fascia would be the mostly likely place where it would be suitable.

Gentlemen,  Really enjoyed all the replies and suggestions / experiences.  Let's see:  Correct on the menards up north - they do stock homasote inside;   down south here, finding (while not impossible) is difficult and a bit higher priced - bout $20 more for a 4x8 sheet.  What got me started on the whole birch / maple thing was over the last few yrs while planning this layout, had a number of guys tell me gotta use 7ply or it's gonna sag, etc etc.  So, more plys became an issue for me and led me to hey - birch and maple. Fortunately, i couldn't find them and since i only have a couple more days to work on this layout before i have to head back north, i said screw it and went and got the blondewood at lowes. 1/2" sanded and thin primed,  6 ply - like $59.  I just needed 2 sheets to get started.   Same here - 1x4 joists 12"-14" OC (sometimes closer where needed) cookie cutter construction - 1/2" homasote roadbed (1/2" ply subroad bed).   My opinion is if youre supports are 14"-16" OC, 1/2" plywood - ( 3 ply) or any equivalent will probably work just fine.   Yes, foam board will also be used to create the scenery.  It seems to go well w L-girder - cookie cutter method.  I just want to lay some darn track & i don't think that's gonna happen this trip.  Thanks for all the imput guys.  I think we're gonna be fine with what we're doin. I believe that if it works for you and you haven't had any problems and are happy, that's all that counts. 

Tom

I built my little 5'x9' layout on a very nice, used ping-pong table.  It came in two pieces which can be separated and tilted to a vertical position for storage (which doesn't seem too practical with  the track, buildings, scenery, etc installed).  It has a substantial undercarriage and more legs than your average insect.  The table itself is some sort of very dense hardboard material.  It only set me back $50, and that included the net, paddles and balls, which we gave to the grandkids.  This thing was apparently $500 new.  Anyway, it might be worth it to get one just for the material.

@AFrame posted:
PVC trim such as Azek, Kleer or others are no good for structural support,  even for the loads layouts have.    Although moisture stable they do move with temperature.  A curved fascia would be the mostly likely place where it would be suitable.

The stuff I was looking at was actual dimensional material -- 1x4x96 (.75x3.5x96).  Ron Karlsson used this material for his outdoor layout, cut down into smaller strips to form a ladder-type roadbed. I'm going to get a couple of "boards" for testing.

I love when I hear people saying you need to have 7 ply, that it will 'sag' if you don't, etc. sure, if you took a 4x8 sheet of plywood, put legs on the corners and used that as a train table, it could sage (even 3/4" might unsupported like that). 1/2" plywood will work fine if you build a box frame or L girder or whatnot, and it has support every 24" (I used 16, but my table is relatively small). I agree with others, use whatever is cheapest among the plywood family and you will be fine, after all it is going to be covered after all. Hardwood plywood like birch and maple is designed for cabinets and the like.

Plywood hasn't been a problem around here, other than the fact that the price is still crazy high and prob going higher (fortunately I don't need to buy any).

A lot of different grades/products available.  One side finished would work well for a train table.  With a 16" on Center support system,  1/2", or what ever, is the closest equivalent would work.  Assume your layout requires (3) 4'X8' sheets.  $200+. Framing material/lumber ?? $300.  Have fun. 

@William 1 posted:

You certainly don't need birch plywood.  I don't get that, it's a waste of money.

You don't "need" it, that's for certain.  OTOH, three years ago when I bought the plywood for my benchwork, the 1/2" Baltic Birch sheets at a plywood specialty yard were almost the same price per sq/ft as the standard sandy-ply at the local Home Depot, so it was an easy decision.  The 11 ply Baltic Birch has great dimensional rigidity, and was a pleasure to work with.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
@Mike CT posted:

A lot of different grades/products available.  One side finished would work well for a train table.  With a 16" on Center support system,  1/2", or what ever, is the closest equivalent would work.  Assume your layout requires (3) 4'X8' sheets.  $200+. Framing material/lumber ?? $300.  Have fun. 

A lot of it also depends what will be on the table. 16" centers with half inch plywood is the standard for floor sub flooring. Unless someone is planning to stand on the layout a lot, or have incredibly heavy things on it, in that case you could prob use 24" centers and not have issues with sagging for example (if your layout has huge mountains with a lot of hydrocal, then maybe, but for most scenery and trackwork the load just isn't that large.

If the frame work on the table is built correctly, 1/4 Luann plywood will work just fine. I built a 5 x 13 layout with it on top of Myannie frame, and did not cover it with Homasote or foam board.  And never had a problem  The layout had plenty of plaster and two main lines and lots of structures and accessories..

I have to stand on mine at times to reach everything, I'd feel a little endangered standing on 1/4" Lauan plywood on 24" centers.  I think I'll pass on that idea.

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