Possible loose DCS remote board

Jerry,

Questions...

• What version of DCS is in each of the TIUs and remotes?
• How are you powering each TIU?
• Is the cable that you're using to connect the TIU and remote a 4- conductor cable and is it known to be good?
• Its it only one engine that has issues or all of them.?
• Are the problem engine(s) PS2 or PS3, and were they factory-made or are they upgrades?
• If the TIUs are on different layouts, why are you using Super TIU mode?
• What is DCS signal strength on your tracks?
• How are you wired - star/home run or some other method?

Take a peek at at the" Engine already in remote" thread below.

I had the same experience just a couple of days ago... the remote locks up looking for the engine with tiu in super.

The fix....  put tiu 1 back in normal mode and try adding there  with no other engine on the track... power off tiu #2.

The engine should add now or you may get the message engine already in remote or no engine to add but it shouldn't lock up.

Menu/ System Tiu set up/ super tiu/   select normal and after your done adding the engine  put the same tiu back to super SPR.   give it a shot.

Gregg,

Thank you - you jogged my memory!

Now I remember what I meant to ask in my previous post:

• Are the two TIUs numbered the same, i.e., both #1 or are they numbered differently?If they're same and both are powered on, big problems will result.
• If they're different and both are in the remote, and both are not powered on, big problems may, once again, result.

Barry and Gregg,

I figured it would be you two...thanks, as always.  

I checked all those things, but, TIU1 is powered through the auxillary, 2 is through fixed 1.  Overhead has two main buses, one for each of two loops.  Table is older, and all homerun.  PW ZW's for both.  Plenty of power and signal is 10.  

I took both out of super mode after hitting the read button.  It told me that both TIU addresses were not found, even though I could run all 4 trains on my overhead layout with just the 10 second delay to recognize engines.  So, I tethered the remote on 1 and it read the TIU and added the engine that wouldn't add. Took it to the table layout and tethered it.  Put that engine on the track.  TIU2 and engine both found and working.  

Removing the tether results in the TIU addresses not being found and a delay in picking up each engine for each command...

1. Why can I still run the trains if the addresses are not being found when untethered?

2. It seems clear that the untethered remote is having problems communicating with the TIU's, but, I can still run the trains.  The commands are inefficient, but they do work.

3. Gregg must be right about the super mode.  I had the same engine previously on the table layout, both layouts in super mode, all working perfectly.  I deleted that engine while doing a major two-level addition to the table and wanted to add it back.  I remember that I could run all trains on both layouts (at the same time) with the one remote, if they were in super.  Think I tried that without the super and it didn't run the table layout train.  Am I wrong about needing super to run both layouts at the same time?

4. I just discovered this problem today because I haven't run anything on the table for months, but the remote was acting strangely, with TIU1 on the overhead, for a while.  Did all the normal checks, batteries, etc., read Barry's book and the DCS manual.  I will continue testing and trying your suggestions and those in Barry's book.

5. So, now that my stuff is running, what can I do about this remote that won't recognize either TIU address and is working slowly?

Thanks again.  You guys remain the best,

Jerry

I'm not exactly sure what's going on but.... sometimes after making adjustments it's best to cycle tiu & remote  power.

Jerry,

The way you're describing things makes it very difficult to figure out exactly what's wrong. Before we can troubleshoot things, you need to get better organized.

If you want to operate all of your engines at any  time using the one remote for both layouts, you have two (and only two) ways to do this so that everything works the way that it should.

Regardless of which way you decide to go, do this first:

• Reset the remote. This will erase everything in it.
• Feature Reset each TIU. This will not delete any engines. Do this one at a time with only the one being reset powered on. The TIUs will retain whatever ID# they currently have.

The first way is to run in Super TIU mode:

• Number the two TIUs differently from each other. It makes no difference which is which, however, I suggest that you number one TIU #1 and the other #2.
• Put both TIUs in Super TIU mode.
• Add engines to whichever TIU you please.
• Have both TIUs powered on whenever you use either layout.

The second way is to run in Normal TIU mode:

• Number both TIUs the same, e.g., number both as #1. It makes no difference what number you pick, however, as long as its the same for both TIUs.
• Put both TIUs in Normal TIU mode.
• Add engines to whichever TIU you please.
• Have only one TIU powered on whenever you use that TIU's layout. Never have both TIUs powered on at the same time.

Now, pick one method and set things up that way. Then, report what problems you have providing details of exactly what you attempt to do and exactly what is the result.

Barry,

1. reset remote.

2. Feature reset on TIU1(overhead layout).  set to normal mode. Tiu2 (table layout) not powered up.

3. Took all engines off overhead but one.  powered up. add engine.

4. Engine added. Errors-out of rf range, engine not on track.  Could still start up and run engine with even a longer delay between commands.  Essentially, no change from before the resets.

5.  Powered down, added tether, running perfectly with no delays between commands and no error messages.  Left only the one engine on the track.  It's a PS3.

Clear wireless communication problem between remote and TIU's.    Powered off 1, powered on 2.  Added TIU2, set to normal. Only one MTH PS3 engine on this table layout track.  Add engine, searching for engine, remote stuck as before.  Tried this untethered and then tethered.  No go.  Each TIU cannot be found wirelessly, but each can be found with tether. (read command)

One more thing:  TIU1 is powered through Auxillary.  Fixed one fixture is damaged, but still works, so I run the overhead loops through fixed2 and variable1. Full power to both tracks from PW ZW.   Has worked this way for months.

So, the resets have not solved my problem.  What do I try now?

Jerry

4. Engine added. Errors-out of rf range, engine not on track.  Could still start up and run engine with even a longer delay between commands.  Essentially, no change from before the resets.

5.  Powered down, added tether, running perfectly with no delays between commands and no error messages.  Left only the one engine on the track.  It's a PS3.

Lets tackle this one for now.......Seems like a loose transceiver board in either the remote or tiu. You may have to open both up very carefully. Barry has a good description on how to do the remote. it's the hardest.

One more little thing on tiu #2...Check out the red led blinks when the tiu first powers up. The number of blinks is the actually tiu number. Unfortunately dcs will allow you to add tiu  to the remote even though they may not exist. Make sure tiu #2 is a 2 blinker.

• Jerry,

Powered off 1, powered on 2.  Added TIU2, set to normal

You didn't follow my directions. I stated:

The second way is to run inNormal TIU mode:

• Number both TIUs the same, e.g., number both as #1. It makes no difference what number you pick, however, as long as its the same for both TIUs.
• Put both TIUs in Normal TIU mode.
• Add engines to whichever TIU you please.
• Have only one TIU powered on whenever you use that TIU's layout. Never have both TIUs powered on at the same time.

You didn't do what's in red above.  Do the following:

• Ensure that both TIUs are #1 by powering on each and counting how many times the red LED blinks before coming on steady.
• If both TIUs are #1, delete #2 from the remote
• However, if one TIU is #2, power off the other TIU and do a Factory Reset of TIU #2. Then, if #2 is still in the remote, delete it.

Now delete all engines from the remote and proceed as follows, without any tethers:

• Power on one TIU and power off the other TIU.
• Attempt to add an engine to it. If successful, attempt to operate that engine. 
• Report exactly what happens.

• Power on the other TIU and power off the first TIU.
• Attempt to add a different engine to it. If successful, attempt to operate that engine. 
• Report exactly what happens.

Gregg, it blinks twice.  Menu will not allow adding same TIU address, as Barry suggests.  TIU transciever board seems solid.  Have Barry's book, but still a little scared to try opening the remote.  I'll do it as a last resort.

Barry, I hope a reset of TIU2 will allow for two TIU1's.  It's not allowed from the remote menu.

Also, with only one TIU in the remote and only that one powered on, I still had the same problem with the wireless.  Tethered was perfect.  Gotta go play poker with the boys today.  Lots of lollipops.  I will try your suggestions tomorrow.  The boys adore those trains.

Thanks guys...

Jerry

Jerry,

 Menu will not allow adding same TIU address, as Barry suggests.  

Of course it won't. I didn't say to do that.

I hope a reset of TIU2 will allow for two TIU1's.

You must do a Factory Reset, not a Feature Reset. That way, the remote only ever l;looks for TIU #1. As long as there's only one TIU #1 powered on at a time, the remote will find it.

It's not allowed from the remote menu.

Do a Factory Reset to to whichever TIU is #2. That will make it to be #1:

Menu/System/TIU Setup/Reset TIU/Factory Reset, select TIU #2 and follow the prompts.

I forget if Factory Reset will delete TIU #2. If it does not, delete it as follows:

Menu/System/TIU Setup/Delete TIU, select TIU #2 and follow the prompts.

Next, delete all engines in the remote and proceed as follows:

• Add 1 engine to one TIU by having only that TIU powered up
• After you add the engine, start it up and operate it
• If there are problems, then tether that TIU to the remote and see if things improve.

Repeat the above for the other TIU.

Report exactly what happens. This will determine which device has a loose board, the remote or one of the TIUs.

Barry & Gregg,

1. Factory reset of TIU2-now one blink instead of two.

2. Deleted TIU2.

3.  Deleted the only engine in the remote.

4. Add engine (TIU1 on table layout-formerly TIU2)

5.  searching for engine-frozen as before

6.  Powered down, tethered, powered up.

7.  Add engine (table layout).  Engine found, operating perfectly.

8. Powered down, moved to overhead layout.

9. Powered up, one blink, power to track.

10.  Add engine, searching & frozen, tethered, engine found, operating perfectly.  Same functions/results on both layouts.

Well, it looks like the remote board is loose?  Hate to do it, but I assume I'm out of options.  I can follow the directions in Barry's book.  Any added tidbits I should know?  Anything I've missed?

Jerry

As you disassemble the remote, take especial care to note how the components are stacked---what goes on top of what.

Jerry,

Some thoughts:

• Open the remote slowly. It takes patience the first time that its opened
• Be sure not to pull up on the transceiver board or the black wire attached to it
• Note that when the remote is opened, it will open up like a book, with a wire connecting the two halves
• Remove the batteries and the screw in the battery compartment (it's easy to forget to do this)
• Place a piece of non-conductive foam on top of the transceiver board before closing up the remote
• Don't attempt to test the remote by putting batteries back in while it's open.

Good luck!

 There are  some tiny fingers soldered to one of the transceiver boards(bottom). If they come off ....the remote is pretty much toast.    Take your time, I found the hardest part is separating each 1/2 of the remote. Yes I had to use a screw driver but was successful .I was also amazed at how little the board was out of the socket. A gentle press and back in business.   good luck. you can do it.

Guys,

Opened the remote carefully.  Made sure to keep the face down so the keyboard wouldn't be disturbed.  Transciever board was slightly ajar, but the first thing was a broken red wire battery compartment contact.  Not much solder on the thing, which was hanging completely loose.  Very unlikely I broke it off when opening the remote.  I re-soldered the wire, felt a very tiny click when re-seating the board.  Added thin foam above it.  Not sure which or if both were the problem.  Remote always powered up, just didn't communicate properly.

Tested, added the remaining four engines, everything seems to be working perfectly again.  I will run them all for awhile to make sure.

Thanks again.  The support you guys provide is irreplaceable.  Not the first time you have come to the rescue.  I won't forget your help, and, as always, you remain the best.

Top pic is of the double tracked overhead layout, bottom is the middle room of a three room, hopefully never to be finished, table layout.

Jerry

Jerry,

If the red wire had been disconnected, the remote wouldn't have powered on at all. Most likely it was about to detach and opening the case completed its disconnection.

No worries, you did good!