Rich-Art Cascade - G to STD conversion is now DONE! A sweet and powerful runner

You might have to get some steel rod and cut new axles.

G gauge is usually DC, Standard 3 rail AC. Someone here on the Forum should be able to  advise you. Good luck.  Look next time !!

Yup, No issue with the DC/AC, I have the electronics to install a reversing unit that will work with DC motors (most modern AC trains have DC motors inside). Really looking at ideas on how to space the drivers, to be sure I have good mating of internal gears. There is clearance inside the tinplate frames to move the wheels to STD spacing, just need new axles and spacers.

and yeah, I'll look next time, had no idea these guys did a G gauge version, just doesn't fit with the Garden Railroading crowd.

It is a beauty. I might have made the same mistake. I know the task of regauging it can be done, but I'd leave the job to someone who has done it before.

Jim,

Henning's trains purchased Model Engineering Works equipment. They have MEW Ives wide gauge parts. Axles, spacers and such. I would give them a call.

If that doesn't work out, contact the California guys. Steve"Papa" Eastman.

Nice piece, good luck!

It's a beauty! Are the bodies and frames the same on the Rich-Art G gauge and standard gauge engines? Is it really just regauging the wheels? That would be fortunate. 

George

Hey George, 

its a different mechanism, plastic sides where the STD mech is metal and looks like the typical Lionel steam mech. Bottom of the frames are closer to the track too.  If I didn't like it so much and the price being right, I would resell it but I doubt I'll find one in this condition for twice the price

Thanks to all for the hints

Jim

I wouldn't touch it. There was a guy that tried to change one over and hack sawed the frame to fit motors in it. He just added 1 extra wheel to each axle of the pony wheels to get those to gauge. Then he spent years looking for the motors and gave up and sold it in horrible condition. He could not get the motors re-gauged, and ended up scraping them.

It's best to keep it and display it, or sell it and be patient for another to pop up for sale. There was one that sold on "that internet auction site" just a couple weeks ago. It was the rarer color scheme dark yellow & maroon, so the odds are in your favor for the next one will be in this color.

I really don't know why Rich-Art made them in G gauge!! It's a prewar toy train looking tinplate loco, and G gauge is scale for the most part. The only tinplate G gauge is the Marklin Maxi stuff. And I know someone will chime in that there was this gauge in the prewar tinplate era, like the big Marklin CER or HR66 locos and trains. I have a bunch of Marklin, Bing etc prewar gauge one trains.  That is 3 rail, gauge 1 tinplate "toy train" track with tubular rails. The Rich-Art model I saw was made to run on the 2 rail G gauge, scale, plastic tie, "model train" track with solid rail. The gauge is the same for displaying train, but the trains do not interchange operationally.

The seller should have told you. That is why the low price. This reminds me of the time I bought a States car for $100 thinking that it was original because it had cast journal boxes. I bought it quick and moved on. When we got back to the car, I lifted the roof and realized that I bought a $75 (or less these days) Lion Lines kit car.

It will take a master craftsman to do the job right, and would be more than it's worth in cost. But even then, there are no motors available anywhere. I looked for a long time for the one I mentioned. So I would think real hard before I started taking it apart.

Why not just set up a G gauge track on your layout.  

I think I would go the G track route or sell it.  I have Standard and HAD G scale and never combined them.

I would setup a G gauge loop. It will fit right in on a tinplate layout. Don't ruin the engine. If you want to sell it, contact me via my email and I might be able to get you out of it for what you put in.

George

I just checked eBay. The most recent Rich-Art std gauge cascade sold for $2,250. It was all orange, not the terrific black/orange/maroon that you have. Hopefully, you paid a lot less than that. I see it has an Ives coupler. What cars were you planning to pull with it? Using it on a G gauge loop introduces the problem of matching rolling stock, although it should be easier to add G gauge trucks to std gauge cars than re-gauging the engine. 

Update: the eBay item number of the one that sold is 192005208231. I think you will need to be logged in to see it. There are great pictures that show the underside and motors in detail.

Hey George, Thanks for the offer, and yes, there is some risk to the conversion.

I paid way less than the recent ebay sale, and I think mine is in much better condition, besides, I like the paint scheme better.

A couple of crafty folks on this board gave me some detailed suggestions. I'm going to pursue it further. I'm pretty handy with this stuff (you should see what it takes to put together a Lee Lines GS4!).

I have the JAD Hiawatha cars and I'm contemplating finding a way to make some of the Lee Lines extrusions that I have (about 500 linear feet!) smooth so I can approximate some version of the Olympian Hiawatha. Might even attempt to print a late model skytop observation end to match the profile of the Lee Lines cars (having a lot of fun thinking up things to do with it - there is way more side material than roof) at the library 3D printer.

Anyone out there have the ability to mill 4" or so wide aluminum material flat? I'm looking to remove the lower fluting on the extrusions.Would enable me to offer smooth side cars for a while. Tooling will allow me to continue to punch out windows in two different widths with the original punch tooling that I own.

I know that Bob Nelson is another big Milwaukee Road fan, so am I. Bob - may be coming back to you with non-fluted sides!

Regards

Jim

Dan Padova posted:

Why not just set up a G gauge track on your layout.  

Dan - this will be my fallback if I decide it's too high risk to convert. Have some old LGB track laying around. Not sure about radius, probably need something wider, this thing likes wide curves.

I can't wait to see the finished product!  Please post pics when you get it running.  Also, it would be great to see pics of the progress of the project so we can all learn.

Also, love the photo and this color scheme for the Milwaukee Road.  I wish I had a set that looked like this in tinplate, whether O or Std gauge.

Are you going to paint the tops of the JAD Lines cars black?

George

There could be possible interest among the European Gauge 1 (G gauge) collectors, but contacting Joe Foehrkolb at Baldwin Forge & Machine might be a worthwhile step. He's RRJJF on the forum.

I don't have one personally, but to me it sounds like you might want to try to build a new mechanism for it.

I'm with those above who said don't convert it.  Sell it.  Build a G scale track.

hi I don't think that it's a good idea could become a total disaster? I would be interested to purchase your locomotive if you decided to sell the engine as I do have G scale engines !

Sincerely interested

Alan

if interested send me an email

Jim Waterman posted:

I know that Bob Nelson is another big Milwaukee Road fan, so am I. Bob - may be coming back to you with non-fluted sides!

Regards

Jim

 Jim,

If you come up with smooth sides, I'll buy a full set in Standard Gauge of Milwaukee Road's Olympian Hiawatha in orange and maroon with "gray" roofs.

Bob

navy.seal posted:

Jim Waterman posted:

I know that Bob Nelson is another big Milwaukee Road fan, so am I. Bob - may be coming back to you with non-fluted sides!

Regards

Jim

 Jim,

If you come up with smooth sides, I'll buy a full set in Standard Gauge of Milwaukee Road's Olympian Hiawatha in orange and maroon with "gray" roofs.

Bob

Ok Bob, I'll get to work on it! If I can find someone with the right mill, I think I can clean off the fluting and make you some very representative cars. Which era are we talking here - late 30's? 40's?

JIm

Jim Waterman posted:

Ok Bob, I'll get to work on it! If I can find someone with the right mill, I think I can clean off the fluting and make you some very representative cars. Which era are we talking here - late 30's? 40's?

JIm

Jim,

The era would be 1930's but that milling sounds very labor intensive and, therefore, expensive.  Furthermore, wouldn't the milling make the sides fragile?  Therefore, before you proceed, let's talk price offline.

Bob 

Jim Waterman posted:

So I went a little crazy at York, one table had both a JAD Hiawatha set in OK shape, and a like new Rich-Art Cascade in the black/orange/maroon scheme. Wow!

Didn't bother to turn it over (anyone that owns one knows why - will crush the pantagraphs).

So I get it home and for some reason (duh) it doesn't want to sit right on the track. IT'S A STINKIN' G GAUGE VERSION!!

Price was very right, and it is the nicest one I've even seen, probably never ran.

So I might just attempt to regauge it - anyone have any experience or recommendation as to the best way to do this and realize a good runner. I just love this thing.

thanks in advance for your thoughts, I know it's been done before, but I've heard with mixed results.  The lead/trailing trucks have longer axles, no problem, but not so with the powered units.

 

Jim Waterman

Only took a year, but decided to build brand new mechanisms, German can motors from Bob Thon, Boston gears, delrin chains and Dallee reversing unit.  Very smooth. I'm very happy! (See attached short video, pulling the JAD Hiawatha cars

Very cool Jim!  Love to see some pictures if you have them of the mechanisms too.

Some photos of the gory details

That's nice Jim, Elegant, yet fairly simple.  Was the Al a stock size or did you have to machine to that cross section?  Bronze bushings, really clean.  I like it.  Thanks for the photos!

Dennis - the aluminum was a stock 1.5" by 1.5 inch channel extrusion, but I had to cut the webs down to make it all work - a balance between the length of the motor shaft, and the small (for standard gauge) drivers. I bought a 10 foot length and used less than one foot, so lots more mechanisms in the future - for other engines. As you can seen, with the flanged bronze bushings, you only need 2 nylon washers on each side to get the right width. And I bought at least 50 pc of each, cheap that way. I have some SP Daylight boiler/tender castings, larger and more detailed than the Lee Lines aluminum ones, will be fashioning a mechanism for them similar to this one. The great Harry Henning has provided the unflanged and flanged drivers for both projects. Finding the Boston gear/gear wheels at a decent price is a challenge, but they will never wear out. I have a bunch saved up now for other projects. And the German can motors are great, lots of torque, smooth, and pull very little current, I could not get above about 1 amp each at stall. The delrin chain and sprockets are from an outfit call Serv-O-Link. Lots of sizes, and they also make spur gears.

Got it, I see the extruded Al channel on Metals Depot  I'm thinking that might be a great way to do a tinplate ish P5A boxcab in 0, well or std for that matter.  Thanks for the info.  I'll have to check out my old Boston gear books to find some gears and hope they still make them today lol.

Dennis - on my short (long maybe) list is a std gauge P5 boxcab. Gonna use this channel for that mechanism as well.  The AF 1-7/8" diameter drivers seem to be a good size for it (Hennings has them, and I have about 50 pc left over). I bought a large format 3d printer and will likely print up the cab, possible in sections or halves. I have some left over trailing truck castings from the Lee Lines stuff that will suffice as the lead/trailing trucks on the engine. Just have to get some skill in 3D modelling. A GG1 is on the list as well, I have a 3D model, but having a hard time printing it (made up of 'polygons' not solid).

Do you go to York, would be great to meet!

Jim

Thanks Jim, I've not been to York yet although I would like to at some point.  I'm over in Indiana, so it's not too far away. I think I should look into this path for the 01 boxcab I recently picked up.  now if only I could check something off my list...

Dennis Holler posted:

Got it, I see the extruded Al channel on Metals Depot  I'm thinking that might be a great way to do a tinplate ish P5A boxcab in 0, well or std for that matter.  Thanks for the info.  I'll have to check out my old Boston gear books to find some gears and hope they still make them today lol.

Dennis, download the new Boston Gear catalog on line. They still make most of them. Some numbers are new (but similar to the old numbers). A guy named 'hangmelina' on ebay picked up a bunch of older stock. Hit or miss, I bought some worms and worm wheels from him in 24 pitch (as on the Cascade) and 32 pitch. He has some worm/worm wheel pairs available, only problem is that the bore on the worm is 7/32", a little big for most motors. I picked up a few sets, and may try to sleeve them and rebore to smaller shaft sizes (a lot of my motors are either 4 or 5 mm). I was able to find the matching 3/16" bore worm on Amazon, another guy who has a lot of 'new old stock'.  Only about 4-5 thousandths ream and you're back to 5mm.

Another photo of the finished engine with consist

Jim,

One of my favorite engines and a great conversion job! How about a video of the Bi-polar running?

Eric Hofberg