Roadbed or No Roadbed

Am starting my layout also, so the replies will be very useful to me also 

No road bed needed using beefy Gargrave's ties/track, just build up a slope on the sides using sanded stryofoam. Paint gray or black and glue on the gravel. Boom, done!

Hello, I used cork roadbed under all of my Gargraves trackage and Ross switches as sound deadening and that was on top of the pressed paper glued to the plywood platform. It, at least, keeps the sound of trains near to the trains.

In my opinion, whether you use roadbed or not depends on the type of railroad you're trying to model. Well built, multiple-track mainlines usually have thick ballast and are elevated above the trackside terrain to promote drainage and prevent flooding or washouts, whereas a single-track branch line would more likely be built on a thinner roadbed with less ballast. My current layout is a single-track branch line and I run scale-sized small locomotives. The track is Atlas O secured with track screws onto O gauge cork.

MELGAR

I've seen/visited a good number of fine layouts over the years, and I've seen a mix of excellent layouts with roadbed and ballast, and equally excellent layouts with ballast only. Haven't yet decided which way I'll go with the new layout I'm building (GarGraves track and Ross switches), but being lazy by nature, I may pass on the roadbed. However, I do have a good many boxes of Woodland Scenics foam roadbed (not exactly cheap) so it may be a good idea to make use of them. I like the product because it is so easy to lay and easy to take up if changes need to be made later. In short: nice to work with.

I used 3/8" thick anti-fatigue rubber mat I got by the 5 ft roll at Lowes.  It cuts easily and can bend around curves.  IMO cuts down on the noise too.

I covered the entire yard area with it.  I'll put some kind of ground cover on it, but I doubt I'll put down ballast, time will tell.  I drilled holes thru the mat and plywood top and used small zip-ties to hold the track in place.

I use roadbed up to the edge of any yard or town.  Track flat down on the Homasote in all yards and rural runs.  However,  I do not drop the track down onto the Homasote.  I raise the entire yard area equal to the thickness of the roadbed.  The rail head flatness remains consistent.   Not prototypical but I try to design out any Murphy effect.

Lot's of good idea's about this. I definitely intend to ballast the track, and I realize that mainline track is always elevated for drainage. I have a couple of boxes of Midwest Cork-- so I may just experiment a little. I just respect and admire Mr. Charbonneau's work-- and I thought-- "by George-- if he did not use any roadbed-- then I will skip it too"... And I think the tie height on Gargraves is sufficient that just ballast would not look incorrect. (Laziness and poorly reasoned frugality may be playing a role here.....) 

While laziness and frugality will get you in trouble in this hobby, the only thing you risk by not having roadbed on a plywood top is a noisy layout.  If noise is not a concern then by all means skip the roadbed.   If you live with someone, be sure ask them if the noise bothers them - even if they are in another room with doors shut.  If it does, use roadbed. 

You can tell by my tagline that my layout was in my basement.  My wife and son could hear the layout upstairs even with doors shut - you'd be surprised how the sound can carry, hence I used roadbed (vinylbed, which sadly is no longer available).   That layout has since been torn down for a new around the room style layout.  I will be using 2" foam instead of plywood and will not be using roadbed as the difference in noise is negligible (based on a sound test I did).  Your experience/opinion may be different.

It really does just come down to personal preference.

-Greg

Has anyone used wood dowel rods in lieu of screws to secure the ties to the table?  The dowel rods should not carry as much noise and vibration as the screw do.  John in Lansing, ILL

rattler21 posted:

Has anyone used wood dowel rods in lieu of screws to secure the ties to the table?  The dowel rods should not carry as much noise and vibration as the screw do.  John in Lansing, ILL

John - if you are ballasting there is no need for screws to secure ties to the table regardless of whether or not you are using roadbed.  The glue is plenty strong enough.  My old layout had zero screws holding the track to the roadbed.  Now if you're not glueing down the ballast or not ballasting, yes, you're gonna need something to hold down the track but I'm not aware of anyone trying dowel rods.

-Greg

I definitely want it to be as quiet as possible-- that's why I covering the plywood with Quiet Brace-- sort of a 1/2 inch fiber material coated in some kind of sticky coating. I intend to glue the quiet brace down to the plywood,  paint it with latex beige paint, and then the track goes on top of the Quiet Brace.   I would not mount the track directly to just plywood for the noise reasons cited above. 

Like Greg I'm using 2" foam w/o plywood on my around the room layout so no road bed is necessary.  I will; however, be using glued down roofing granules as ballast.  Since I'm 74 yrs old this will be my last layout build so gluing the ballast is of no concern since I don't anticipate moving any track.  BTW the track is held in place with "T" pins until  the ballasting is complete.  Then they'll be removed and the glued down ballast will hold the track in place.

I think I am going to use Dennis Brennan's method from his book. Put down a sheet of Homasote or foam, lay the track directly on the sheet, and then use N gauge cork next to it to create a slope before ballasting.

petrifiedagg posted:

I think I am going to use Dennis Brennan's method from his book. Put down a sheet of Homasote or foam, lay the track directly on the sheet, and then use N gauge cork next to it to create a slope before ballasting.

That's exactly what I did with my Atlas track. It was fast, easy, and I think it looks pretty good. Here's a link to my build thread. You can see some pictures at the bottom of page three. https://ogrforum.com/...er-bay-branch?page=1

Andy

If you use foam (I'm thinking of using 4'x8'x2" sheets of insulation board, painted on upside), laid on a base of, say, 1/2" plywood, 1. How would  you attach the foam to the plywood....assuming it's necessary to do so?....2. If necessary, how would you attach/secure accessories to the layout...maybe just use long enough screws to go thru the foam and catch the plywood base?

If you create a frame around the perimeter of the plywood base that is higher that tha plywood top...just even with the top of the 2" insulation board...would it be necessary to glue it attach the foam to the plywood?..the perimeter fram would keep it from shifting and a few screws used here and there to secure some accessories would further keep the foam in place?....thoughts??

77, that looks good. I plan on using Super-O with Ross switches.

Well, after looking Andy's build photos using the method suggested by Brennan's Better Ballast-- that looks about as good as anything I have seen. Now-- I am mulling over going with 2 inch foam over 1/2 plywood, and forgoing the Quiet Brace. One thing I really wanted was the ability to have scenic features below the track level, and with the two inch foam, you could "scoop" out places and lend a little more interest to the area around the track. I drove 180 miles round trip to buy my stack of Quiet Brace, so it is hard to just throw it away, but I believe the 2 inch foam has a lot of things going for it. At $40 a sheet-- low price is not one of them...but  hey-- I'm only going to do this once...

What I'v used is under carpet padding on topof plywood that I drive around town and p/u what's thrown in the trash, granted some you don't want to use, and I cut strips a bit wider than the track use a bit of glue to glue it down or the spray glue and really seems to quite things down abit.

Earnie posted:

If you use foam (I'm thinking of using 4'x8'x2" sheets of insulation board, painted on upside), laid on a base of, say, 1/2" plywood, 1. How would  you attach the foam to the plywood....assuming it's necessary to do so?....2. If necessary, how would you attach/secure accessories to the layout...maybe just use long enough screws to go thru the foam and catch the plywood base?

If you create a frame around the perimeter of the plywood base that is higher that tha plywood top...just even with the top of the 2" insulation board...would it be necessary to glue it attach the foam to the plywood?..the perimeter fram would keep it from shifting and a few screws used here and there to secure some accessories would further keep the foam in place?....thoughts??

My experience is that you build the frame the same way you would build it if you were using plywood as the top.  Instead of laying and attaching plywood you do so with the foam.   Instead of screws, use glue and clamp (or put weight on top) and let sit for 24 hrs.   If you ever have to remove the foam top it will just pop off with a little bit of force.  If you are lacking strength you can hit the underside with a rubber mallet.

-Greg

Greg...using for as the top, how would you go about securing accessories or even track to the foam...esp if there is no plywood underneath?

No or yes is your choice. Your town, your RR.  If you do a roadbed, I ended up using flexxbed.  It is a cushiony pliable vinyl.  You will have to wait a couple weeks for it. It is made after you order.  

When new. It is very flexible.  You could turn it around a 56” without buckling or pucker. No glue, just screw down with track.  After it sits a couple months is retains its form allowing you to pull track if needed.  Bed stays put.

Very important.  Don’t buy it and let it sit without installing right away.  It loses some freshness that stiffens it up a bit. Get a free sample from them.  Really a great product in my opinion.

Earnie posted:

If you use foam (I'm thinking of using 4'x8'x2" sheets of insulation board, painted on upside), laid on a base of, say, 1/2" plywood, 1. How would  you attach the foam to the plywood....assuming it's necessary to do so?....2. If necessary, how would you attach/secure accessories to the layout...maybe just use long enough screws to go thru the foam and catch the plywood base?

To quiet my previous layout I did a little overkill.  After framing was done I covered the tops of the benchwork with fibrous floor underlayment material from Lowe's that comes in a roll.  I used  2X3's for the framing, so I used a 2X3 as a guide to cut the width and attach it with glue.

I then attached the plywood to the frame. (My first mistake.  See below.)

Next I attached the 2" foam to the plywood using Liquid Nails for Projects.  It comes in a calking tube.

I then added Woodland Scenics Foam Roadbed under the track.  I attached the roadbed, and the track to the roadbed with two-sided carpet tape.  It held it all in place for nearly 15 years without moving.  If it'll hold down a carpet it surely is strong enough to hold track and roadbed.  All this made the trains whisper quiet traveling around the layout.  In the below pictures you can see a cross section of all the layers.

The error I made in all of this was screwing down the plywood before glueing the foam on top!  When I had to dismantle the layout prior to our move it was a mess trying to find the exact locations of where I screwed the plywood to the frame under the glued on foam!  I had to dig up the foam until I found the screws under it.  What a mess that made because I secured the foam so well all over with the Liquid Nails.  

If you use any part of this method, make sure you glue the foam to the plywood before attaching it to the benchwork!!  You can use 1 1/4" drywall screws to go through the foam and secure the plywood to the frame.  it'll be easier to locate the screws later on if you have to remove the plywood.

Traindiesel....many thanks for the detailed but clear review of your layout construction. Great ideas that I will surely incorporate into my new build.

PS..the pics REALLY helped explain the do's and dont's.