Running Trains On 110 VAC?

Help me here....

Are you referencing a practice early on in this hobby that actually took place??  Are you citing an article....historical tidbit?....obituary?

110v AC....no step-down voltage at all?

Was this part of the Tesla-Edison feud rationale?  

I'm no hobby historian by a long shot, but this sounds like a Darwin Award competition entry.....maybe?

Was someone's pet cat part of the decision?

DKDKRD - yes, Marmel is referencing a historical fact.

Below is one of the Bing offerings which used straight from the wall to the track power. This set is from 1912.

I know that both Bing and Marklin offered such trains and made these trains for export as well.  In German the term is "Starkstrom" which translates to "high voltage" .  These were available for direct or alternating current and voltages in the 65-250 range.    In French the trains were listed as "a haute tension de 110 a 220 volts continu ou alternatif".  

  As for when they quit making these trains - based on the book Bing by Claude Jeanmarie it would appear  that production of these trains continued well into the 1920's.  I say "appear" because Claude's book does not have a copy of every Bing catalog but is a sampler of parts of catalogs for various years.  

   The trains are still listed as available in the 1925 catalog Bing catalog for the French market but are not illustrated in the catalog samples after that date.  The sample catalog for 1928 for the English market advertises trains  as "Electric trains to run from the main house current 110-125 and 220-250 volts through transformers or rectifiers." and the 1928 text indicates the motors are 18 volt alternating current.

dkdkrd posted:

Help me here....

Are you referencing a practice early on in this hobby that actually took place??  Are you citing an article....historical tidbit?....obituary?

110v AC....no step-down voltage at all?

None. 

Was this part of the Tesla-Edison feud rationale?  

Yes.  Tesla was trying to figure out how to broadcast power to his electric trains, you see, and, well...  ;-)

I'm no hobby historian by a long shot, but this sounds like a Darwin Award competition entry.....maybe?

Was someone's pet cat part of the decision?

Well, I vaguely recall an article in Model Railroader about some chap who had live 110v catenary in his house and powered his trains with vacuum cleaner motors, so I imagine the household moggies might have had some bearing on the matter... 

Mitch

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

I gather that running trains on mains current was discontinued rather early in the hobby, for obvious safety reasons.    

When exactly did this dangerous (if amusing) practice actually die out?   As it were. 

Mitch

This practice still exists; I run Märklin High voltage trains:

Regards

Fred

I gave a Marx train set to my cousins a couple years back, my aunt (who is very "safety conscious") was worried about the arching & sparking, I told her it was typical of Marx trains to do so and is harmless. She was also worried about the electricity to the track, I put my hand across it to show how little wattage was running through it. Apparently children being around open conductors is a scary thought to her (and a number of other parents I've met).

What would she think of toys powered by electricity straight from the wall? Hell, that would put me on edge a little bit

Brian,

  Your comment reminds me of the James Thurber story about an aunt who insisted that every wall outlet have a plug in it because if they weren't plugged then electricity would be leaking all over the house. 

If you've been sweating, I wouldn't put my hand across model RR track---you will feel a tingle.  And if you're wearing a ring----

Hmmmm....

Since he was born in 1904, perhaps he had a bad experience with a Bing thing as a young lad from Santa Claus???

We're talking about Charles Dalziel, inventor of the GFCI...Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter...in 1961.

I mean, anyone who would throw a plugged-in electric toaster into bath water in which his daughter was bathing to convince investors of the efficacy of his invention, must have had passion...and a lot more chutzpah than this goy.

Oy vey!

KD

There used to be a museum in Delaware that featured Stanley Steamers outside including rides in them while having all vintage trains inside an old house.  I was pretty young when I went - probably mid 70's.  They had a few 110 layouts on display as well as one of the largest helix layouts I've ever seen. 

I don't know if it is around or not anymore.  Haven't thought about that in years until this thread came up.  Great vintage stuff.

In France the use of high voltage trains stopped just before world war II. Maybe after some complaints of unhappy users .... Safety reason of course.

However i have an original set from JEP, the "Flêche d'Or" sold in 1938 with a high voltage reducer and modified in 1961 by the french electricity company, EDF; when we stopped using 110 ac and passed to 220 ac in all the country they modified the reducer. I still have the original papers with the set ..... and i use it sometime.

Also some other trains i run regularly under high voltage.....

JEP 1936

Hornby 1928

And some Marklin too

And much more .... In fact there is "only" 70-80 volts in the tracks when the train is running. You just have to be carefull and use pieces in perfect and inspected condition and keep the pets out of the room ........

Cheers,  Daniel

GG1 4877 posted:

There used to be a museum in Delaware that featured Stanley Steamers outside including rides in them while having all vintage trains inside an old house.  I was pretty young when I went - probably mid 70's.  They had a few 110 layouts on display as well as one of the largest helix layouts I've ever seen. 

I don't know if it is around or not anymore.  Haven't thought about that in years until this thread came up.  Great vintage stuff.

"I was pretty young when I went - probably mid 70's."

I'll have to let my dad know he's still pretty young.  LOL

All joking aside, Stanley Steamers and vintage electric trains sounds like my kind of place! I was working in Delaware around 1999. Would have been a great place to visit.

Fascinating and informative thread!

handyandy posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

There used to be a museum in Delaware that featured Stanley Steamers outside including rides in them while having all vintage trains inside an old house.  I was pretty young when I went - probably mid 70's.  They had a few 110 layouts on display as well as one of the largest helix layouts I've ever seen. 

I don't know if it is around or not anymore.  Haven't thought about that in years until this thread came up.  Great vintage stuff.

"I was pretty young when I went - probably mid 70's."

I'll have to let my dad know he's still pretty young.  LOL

 

All joking aside, Stanley Steamers and vintage electric trains sounds like my kind of place! I was working in Delaware around 1999. Would have been a great place to visit.

You sound like my 22 year old daughter! 

I think this was the place, but it didn't mention more than one train 30's vintage Lionel standard gauge set.  Things may have changed over the years. 

http://test.auburnheights.org/

Hmmm... Mid 70's is starting to look quite young to me, sure wish it felt that way!

The 120 vac trains are quite interesting as well!

Be careful when using a bulb in series with the track to cut voltage.  Without the train running, voltage on the track will be full line voltage.

This neat train is in the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden.  The sign says, "Built in the 1920's, by Douglas B. Ellis, Denver.  Operates off 110 volt trolley wire.

I'm not sure how big it is; it is up on a shelf and a bit hard to judge the size... probably about standard gauge.  

dkdkrd posted:

...I mean, anyone who would throw a plugged-in electric toaster into bath water in which his daughter was bathing to convince investors of the efficacy of his invention, must have had passion...and a lot more chutzpah than this goy...

This guy too who invented SawStop.

SawStop sounds like a good idea. 

First l heard of a Stanley museum, and one I'd like to visit. My favorite book in my high school library was "Story of a Stanley Steamer", about the quirks of restoring and driving one, including hitting brake and "clutch" (reverse pedal) in a panic stop, resulting in instantaneous change to opposite direction, at the same speed, putting you over the windshield and waking up following drivers.

Colorado Hirailer - actually it is worse than that.  Some years ago I read a collection of short articles about the experiences of driving Stanley Steamers on a day-to-day basis.  In one of the pieces the individual described one of those panic stops.  A ball, closely followed by a young child rolled out into the street almost directly in front of the driver. He hit the reverse and was catapulted out of his seat and draped over the windshield.  Because his foot was no longer on the reverse the Stanley surged forward, whipping him off of the windshield and back into his seat.  From the kid-with-the-ball perspective it looked like the car hopped backwards and then hopped forwards.  The narrator of the story said that the sight of this behavior sent the kid tearing off the street and running for the front door of his house screaming for his mother.  As for the driver, he said he had one awful case of whiplash.

Mr. Butler, that sounds to be the incident described in the "Stanley" book.

RJR posted:

Be careful when using a bulb in series with the track to cut voltage.  Without the train running, voltage on the track will be full line voltage.

I'm sure the bulb is there primarily as a current limiting device, they're not trying to make it "safer".  If the train derails and shorts the track, the bulbs simply light up, nothing goes up in a 30 amp arc.

And if the cat steps on the tracks,  well...

Mitch

GRJ, many many years ago, I made a battery charger that used selenium rectifiers and a 7-watt bulb in series, plugged into wall socket.  Worked great, but I made sure never to touch clips when plugged in.  The 7-watt bulb passed the amperage I wanted.  I soon went to something safer.

Those units shown above could follow the same principle, calculating what voltage & amperage the locos should get, and sizing the bulb accordingly, without using a transformer.

Above I wasn't talking about making it safer, but about touching the track.

RJR posted:

GRJ, many many years ago, I made a battery charger that used selenium rectifiers and a 7-watt bulb in series, plugged into wall socket.  Worked great, but I made sure never to touch clips when plugged in.  The 7-watt bulb passed the amperage I wanted.  I soon went to something safer...

I still have a couple of these that I used to charge my Motoriffic AA batteries as a youngster:

which work on the same principal. Saved my parents a ton on batteries, but I'm afraid to use them now!

ADCX Rob posted:

Saved my parents a ton on batteries, but I'm afraid to use them now!

As well you should be from the looks of it.

Personally, I will stick with my LOW voltage AC and DC trains! I do NOT have a death wish!

Art, you just don't like thrills��

ADCX Rob posted:

I still have a couple of these that I used to charge my Motoriffic AA batteries as a youngster:

which work on the same principal. Saved my parents a ton on batteries, but I'm afraid to use them now!

Oooo!  Had one of those as a lad as well!  

Mitch